Leaving creationism = leaving Christianity?

[snr5557]

What is your best evidence of evolution? it is a sin to believe in lies.

She has given evidence for evolution, you either haven't read it or refuse to accept it.

 

[Suhar]

She has given evidence for evolution, you either haven't read it or refuse to accept it.

She has never done that. If she did how about you show that "evidence"?

 

[snr5557]

Fact #1 The Evolution of New Species

(keep in mind, "fish", "bird", "monkey" etc. are not examples of "species", and "a frog turning into a lizard" is not speciation....if you think it is, the problem isn't with the science, but with your understanding of it)

Finches

http://www.pnas.org/...1/12/0911761106


South Atlantic Island Finches

http://www.sciencema...t/315/5817/1420


Fruit flies

http://www.ncbi.nlm....2&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm....1&dopt=Abstract

Whiptail lizards (in the lab)

http://www.pnas.org/...108.short?rss=1

Cichlids

http://www.ncbi.nlm....5&dopt=Abstract

Cicadas

http://www.ncbi.nlm....8&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm....5&dopt=Abstract

Yeast

http://www.ncbi.nlm....6&dopt=Abstract

Bacteria

http://www.ncbi.nlm....7&dopt=Abstract

Goatsbeard

http://www.amjbot.or...tract/91/7/1022

Sparrows

http://onlinelibrary...5183.x/abstract

Apple maggot fly (in the process)

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.pnas.org/...02/suppl_1/6573

Hybrid speciation

http://scienceblogs....trikes_agai.php


Fact #2 The Evolution of New Traits, Abilities, and Genetic Sequences (i.e., "new genetic information")


(there are waaaaaaaaaaay more than this, but the following is sufficient to make the point)

Evolution of beneficial mutations, parallel evolution, and new traits

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17691099

Rapid evolution of structures in introduced lizards

http://www.pnas.org/...act/105/12/4792


Evolution of chimeric genes in yeast

http://mbe.oxfordjou...nt/15/8/931.pdf


Evolution of multicellularity in lab

http://www.ingentaco...000002/00171545

Experimental evolution of multicellularity in yeast

http://www.pnas.org/content/109/5/1595


Evolution of new genes

http://www3.uta.edu/...ublications.htm

http://www.nature.co...bs/nrg1204.html


Origin and evolution of new exons in rodents

http://www.genome.or...tract/15/9/1258



Fact 3# Transitional Fossils Between Taxa

(a "transitional fossil" is a specimen that shows a mixture of characteristics of different taxa, and again this is hardly a complete list but is sufficient to make the point)



Intermediate Fossils

http://www.asa3.org/...ces/Miller.html


Sinosauropteryx (4 complete skeletons)

http://www.nature.co...l/391147a0.html

Caudipteryx (5 nearly complete skeletons)

http://www.nature.co...l/393753a0.html

Protarchaeopteryx (2 specimens)

http://www.paleoglot...es/ji&ji_97.pdf

Theropod with avian lung features

http://www.nature.co...ature03716.html

Dilong

http://en.wikipedia....ilong_paradoxus


Mahakala

http://blogs.discove...rs-beyond-cute/


Pre-Cambrian to Cambrian transitional fossils

http://www.asa3.org/...-97Miller2.html

http://www.asa3.org/...3-01Morton.html


Pre-Cambrian proto-mollusk

http://www.ucmp.berk...kimberella.html


Cambrian transitional between halkieriids and wiwaxiids

http://www.sciencema...t/315/5816/1255


Reptiles to mammals

http://palaeos.com/v....html#Synapsida

Yanoconodon (transitional between reptiles and mammals)

http://www.nature.co...ature05627.html








Fossilized eye muscles showing transitional state

http://journals.roya...7m1711432025rn/


Fact #4 The Utility of Evolutionary Theory

(showing how using an evolutionary framework allows for accurate interpretation of data)


Using evolution to determine gene function

http://blogs.discove...ats-a-gene-for/

PLOS paper for above

http://compbiol.plos...al.pcbi.0010045

Evolutionary Genomics

http://www.genome.du...h/evolutionary/


Fact #5 Beneficial Mutations


Increase in life span and limited tumor growth

http://www.sciencema...3/5789/971?etoc

Evolution of resistance in HIV

http://scholar.googl... resistance HIV

Resistance in weeds

http://www.weedscien...ReferenceID=623

Resistance to male sex pathogen

http://www.sciencema...ct/317/5835/214

Evolution of “hyperswimmers” in bacteria

http://www.cell.com/...1247(13)00388-4




Fact #6 Mathematical Evidence for Universal Common Descent


Statistical Test of Universal Common Ancestry

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20463738

http://news.national...ingle-ancestor/



Fact #7 Many Christians Accept Evolution as True

http://theclergylett...hrClergyLtr.htm

The above is from a post by her in the debate forum. I re-posted it on another thread called I wish evolution was true...because I would have wings.

 

[Mr.Bride]

And this is saying that evolution is true?? Get outta here...

 

[Suhar]

[SIZE=medium]Fishies are still fishies, fruit flies are still fruit flies, [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/Encyclopedia/10mut10.htm[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Bacteria is still bacteria, flower is still flower….[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Where is the evidence of evolution? Slight variation, mutation within a specie is not an evidence of one specie becoming another.[/SIZE]

 

[Mr.Bride]

:)

 

[snr5557]

[SIZE=medium]Fishies are still fishies, fruit flies are still fruit flies, [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/Encyclopedia/10mut10.htm[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Bacteria is still bacteria, flower is still flower….[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Where is the evidence of evolution? Slight variation, mutation within a specie is not an evidence of one specie becoming another.[/SIZE]

Could you please find a scientific paper on this subject? On the subject of the article you posted here I mean.

 

[Suhar]

Could you please find a scientific paper on this subject? On the subject of the article you posted here I mean.

Come on! I asked for ONE evidence of evolution! Is it that hard to come up with ONE?

 

[snr5557]

Come on! I asked for ONE evidence of evolution! Is it that hard to come up with ONE?

Did you not read what she posted? I can't force you to read something. What specifically did you not understand? I'm only a health science major, but I will try my best.

 

[River Jordan]

Snr, as you can see, there are some people with whom you just can't have anything resembling a conversation. All they do is yell, accuse, and call names, and they never actually read what you post. It's best to just let it go.

 

[Suhar]

Did you not read what she posted? I can't force you to read something. What specifically did you not understand? I'm only a health science major, but I will try my best.

OK Major. I red some of what you posted. One example after another of variation within specie. Not one of one specie becoming another. I am only asking for one example after all.

By the way if one mutation within a specie cannot breed with another mutation it does not mean that it is a new specie. Mutations happen and they die off while bacteria is still a bacteria, flower will never become a banana plant and monkey will never be a human being created in the image and likeness of God!

Snr, as you can see, there are some people with whom you just can't have anything resembling a conversation. All they do is yell, accuse, and call names, and they never actually read what you post. It's best to just let it go.

Talking about yourself? Take your own advise then!

 

[aspen]

really? it is a sin to believe in lies? is that according to the suhar bible?

 

[Suhar]

really? it is a sin to believe in lies? is that according to the suhar bible?

Yes. My Bible says SIX DAYS. If you say that it is a lie then it is a sin. Duh!

You say that God did not really mean SIX DAYS? Do you declare yourself smarter then God? You know what God meant better then GOD HIMSELF? Either that or you declare that God could not possibly be powerful enough to create world in six days. How do you know what limits of His power are? You are bigger then God? Are you a "supergod"?

 

[aspen]

grow up, Suhar

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

The goatsbeard plant is in the sunflower family and there are 140 varieties.

A new variety has been observed that will not interbreed with the others

Jordan River (evolutionists) say that is proof that evolution is true.

But is it ?

I suggest there are now 141 varieties of the Goatsbeard plant , and the newest one could very well continue to reproduce itself , or it could be a harmful mutation that cannot properly reproduce and may disappear.

Most changes and mutations observed in nature are harmful , not beneficial

This has been scientifically proven in laboratories around the world by experimenting with the California Fruit fly.

For years scientists have experimented with the fruit fly in order to observe and document "evolution" but the tests were unsuccessful ..... the changes and mutations were always harmful ... they were never beneficial in the sense they were improving and evolving to a higher and better level

Now they try to bamboozle us with sunflowers.

For a biologist to say a new strain of sunflower is proof we all descended from a common ancestor is insulting to human intelligence

For a biologist to leave out all the science that indicates evolution fails in the lab is dishonest.

It is called lack of full disclosure

A fancy word for not telling the whole truth.

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

Arnie,

Truth!

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Statistical Test of Universal Common Ancestry

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20463738



The above is from a post by her in the debate forum. I re-posted it on another thread called I wish evolution was true...because I would have wings.

I decided to take a couple of minutes to read one randomly selected link which somebody claims proves evolution

I have taken the liberty of highlighting (in red) all the things that show it is assumptions (not fact) that we share a common ancestor



.................................

Universal common ancestry (UCA) is a central pillar of modern evolutionary theory. As first suggested by Darwin, the theory of UCA posits that all extant terrestrial organisms share a common genetic heritage, each being the genealogical descendant of a single species from the distant past. The classic evidence for UCA, although massive, is largely restricted to 'local' common ancestry-for example, of specific phyla rather than the entirety of life-and has yet to fully integrate the recent advances from modern phylogenetics and probability theory. Although UCA is widely assumed, it has rarely been subjected to formal quantitative testing, and this has led to critical commentary emphasizing the intrinsic technical difficulties in empirically evaluating a theory of such broad scope. Furthermore, several researchers have proposed that early life was characterized by rampant horizontal gene transfer, leading some to question the monophyly of life. Here I provide the first, to my knowledge, formal, fundamental test of UCA, without assuming that sequence similarity implies genetic kinship. I test UCA by applying model selection theory to molecular phylogenies, focusing on a set of ubiquitously conserved proteins that are proposed to be orthologous. Among a wide range of biological models involving the independent ancestry of major taxonomic groups, the model selection tests are found to overwhelmingly support UCA irrespective of the presence of horizontal gene transfer and symbiotic fusion events. These results provide powerful statistical evidence corroborating the monophyly of all known life.

..........................

So from now on , whenever you read evolutionary theory , make note that it is all theory and speculation ... not scientific fact

Arnie ... the obnoxious helicopter pilot

 

[snr5557]

I decided to take a couple of minutes to read one randomly selected link which somebody claims proves evolution

I have taken the liberty of highlighting (in red) all the things that show it is assumptions (not fact) that we share a common ancestor

.................................

..........................

So from now on , whenever you read evolutionary theory , make note that it is all theory and speculation ... not scientific fact

Arnie ... the obnoxious helicopter pilot

Do you know what a theory is?

"Among a wide range of biological models involving the independent ancestry of major taxonomic groups, the model selection tests are found to overwhelmingly support UCA irrespective of the presence of horizontal gene transfer and symbiotic fusion events. These results provide powerful statistical evidence corroborating the monophyly of all known life."

Plus, does this not say that what they have found out about UCA is supported by the results? Because it does say that is provides powerful statistical evidence for it, which is probably one of the reasons why River posted this.

 

[River Jordan]

This is nothing more than a demonstration of persistent deliberate ignorance. It's one thing to not know much about a subject, it's something else entirely to go out of your way to ignore all attempts to educate you on that subject while at the same time thinking yourself qualified to evaluate work in that subject area.

It's truly something to behold.

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

River,

Please don't get so angry. People are just having a discussion on an internet board.

Ask yourself, what would Darwin do?