"leaving the Faith", while you are born again.

[L.A.M.B.]

-
"leaving the faith"... is not losing Salvation, as if you gave God your faith, one time, then God gave you His Salvation, that is eternal. And God now has the responsibility of your Salvation... To complete it.
Philippians 1:6

Salvation predestines you to be conformed into the image of Christ.
This will happen., if you are born again, even if you have a faith crisis because you have become deceived by someone who has caused you to become "fallen from Grace".
So, being born again is why you go to heaven and why you will be conformed into the image of Jesus The Christ.
This is predestined by God to happen to everyone who is born again.

However, the UNDERSTANDING regarding how to understand and exist in REAL FAITH, can become "darkened", in a born again believer.
Paul talks about this in Galatians 3, as some Born again Galatian Christian left the real faith...= lost their UNDERSTANDING of the Gospel of the Grace of God.
They were DECEIVED out of it... "bewitched".
Paul said of these deceived Believers.... '"you started in the Spirit and now you try to continue in the Flesh".

That means, they once understood that Jesus kept them saved, that Jesus Himself IS their Salvation... but they lost that understanding..."fallen from Grace".... and now they are trying to stay saved and go to heaven, based on "flesh", = Works, commandment keeping, water baptism, ... anything but simple TRUST in CHRIST..= to keep them saved.
They do not believe that Jesus keeps them saved. They can't any longer as their mind has become darkened by deception. "bewitched", as Paul describes it.
This believer has lost the understanding that is the "simplicity that is found IN CHRIST"..(The Grace of God)... and are now trying to not lose their salvation, to stay saved... by self effort.
= Legalism.
If you talk to a person who is "fallen from Grace, "deceived", in the flesh"...>"bewitched", They will say..."""as long as i DO THIS,, and as long as i DONT Do THAT..... i will go to heaven""".
See the "Do's and Donts'? That is their SAVIOR, and that is Not JESUS.
That is not real faith in Christ, that is SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, ....= trying to make self RIGHT with God... and that faith is broken....."fallen FROM Grace". "their understanding is Darkened".. they are "mind blinded", Paul teaches.

Salvation is God's Righteousness, given as "the Gift of Righteousness" that is our Eternal Salvation.
God's Salvation is Christ on the Cross, and once this BLOOD ATONEMENT is applied to you, its DONE.
However, its very easy to lose this knowledge and get swept away from this Real faith, into Self SAVING.
You must live in this verse.... Hebrews 13:9
A person or a denomination or a cult, will cause you to lose the right understanding of Salvation that is a GIFT from God.
These are the Devil's ministers.. and they live on forums, in Pulpits, they start Denominations, and they write commentaries... to try to ruin your FAITH, or to try to keep you away from Real faith so that you die and go to hell.
When they do this to a born again Believer, Paul says...>"who has BEWITCHED YOU< that you no longer OBEY the Truth".

Who will do this to you?

A.) Forums are filled with these people.
B.) Pulpits are filled with these people.

Its Anyone who believes they can lose their salvation, as that person, is "fallen from Grace" and cannot teach the True Gospel, as they have left it, they are "bewitched", and they will do the same to you, and have...if you believe you can lose your Salvation.

Hi Behold
Hmmm maybe we butt heads bc of our personalities or MAYBE bc we disagree on our terminological thinking......Lol as you can see, I'm still reading your post, WHY? Beats me until the Spirit reveals it unto myself or you & 1 blocks the other....
( smiles)

At christianity.com, Dec.18 2020, Apostasy is defined as essentially " a falling away". It also covers the "always saved vs never was a christian to begin with", debate, by Hope Bolinger.

Apostasy = falling away, defecting from, or withdrawal. In the Greek original N. T. It means to express ABANDONMENT OF THE FAITH.

Matthew 24:10-12. Jesus said many false prophets will come to DECEIVE in the last days and the love of many would wax cold and wickedness would increase. ( love of God as well as physical love) Remember in Revelation where when he spoke about the
" church" ages, he rebuked them bc they had LEFT their first love? Revelation 1/2

Merriam- Webster's def. ia an ACT of refusing to continue to FOLLOW, OBEY or RECOGNIZE A RELIGIOUS FAITH!

John 6:60-66 many of his disciples left him, Galatians 1:6. describes BELIEVERS who were eagerly abandoning the faith, 1 Timothy 6. In Paul's letter says that many will fall away abandoning their faith & Christ.2 Peter 3:17 warns us TO STAY ON GUARD against false teachers.

There are many synonyms & antonyms that describe or depict the term " falling away".

Works salvation is widely held by many among Christendom bc man HAS NOT LET GO OF ALL THE SINS OF THE WORLD ie the pride of life, the lusts of the eyes & the lust of the flesh. Man has an innate sense of pride, desires to control his own destiny and believes in justice. This thinking brings about the ideas" if I did so bad as a sinner then I must do good for God, as though that balances the scales. Instead we fail to understand God's Love and all it encompasses. It is not a chess game of mate & check-mate but rather HOW MUCH DO WE TRUST THE LORD?

Legalism is a term in which ppl that believe God attempt on their own to secure righteousness when GRACE IS GOD'S ...UNMERITED...FAVOUR! These believe that THEIR WORKS affect tgeir salvation.

In Acts 13 we see here John ( Mark ?) return to Jerusalem with Paul & Barnabas going on into Antioch and went into the synagogue. The men there asked after the reading if they had anything to say, ( remember at the beginning " Christianity "was attached to Judaism at first)! Paul preached from the O. T. up until Christ this; v41 Behold ye despisers and wonder and perish: for I WORK A WORK IN YOUR DAYS, A WORK WHICH YE SHALL IN NO WISE BELIEVE, though a certain man declare it unto you.

Here Paul is reminding them and us it is HE that did the WORK OF our salvation.

WE CAN HOWEVER ABANDON THE FAITH, REJECTING THE WORK OF GOD IN OUR SALVATION.
THEN WE BECOME AS THOSE FIT FOR DESTRUCTION WITHOUT GOD!

 

[Daydreamer]

Actually sir, I side with Jehovah on this one, He states very clearly the dead are conscious of nothing at all. Ecc 9:5,6,10. It was satan that said you cannot die, God said you will. If we continued to live after we die, then why all the teachings about the resurrection?

How could Christ, after dying at Calvary go and make proclamation of the message to people who had previously died, if they had no consciousness to hear the message?
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built 1Peter3:18-20

 

[Angelina]

-
"leaving the faith"... is not losing Salvation, as if you gave God your faith, one time, then God gave you His Salvation, that is eternal. And God now has the responsibility of your Salvation... To complete it.
Philippians 1:6

Salvation predestines you to be conformed into the image of Christ.
This will happen., if you are born again, even if you have a faith crisis because you have become deceived by someone who has caused you to become "fallen from Grace".
So, being born again is why you go to heaven and why you will be conformed into the image of Jesus The Christ.
This is predestined by God to happen to everyone who is born again.

However, the UNDERSTANDING regarding how to understand and exist in REAL FAITH, can become "darkened", in a born again believer.
Paul talks about this in Galatians 3, as some Born again Galatian Christian left the real faith...= lost their UNDERSTANDING of the Gospel of the Grace of God.
They were DECEIVED out of it... "bewitched".
Paul said of these deceived Believers.... '"you started in the Spirit and now you try to continue in the Flesh".

That means, they once understood that Jesus kept them saved, that Jesus Himself IS their Salvation... but they lost that understanding..."fallen from Grace".... and now they are trying to stay saved and go to heaven, based on "flesh", = Works, commandment keeping, water baptism, ... anything but simple TRUST in CHRIST..= to keep them saved.
They do not believe that Jesus keeps them saved. They can't any longer as their mind has become darkened by deception. "bewitched", as Paul describes it.
This believer has lost the understanding that is the "simplicity that is found IN CHRIST"..(The Grace of God)... and are now trying to not lose their salvation, to stay saved... by self effort.
= Legalism.
If you talk to a person who is "fallen from Grace, "deceived", in the flesh"...>"bewitched", They will say..."""as long as i DO THIS,, and as long as i DONT Do THAT..... i will go to heaven""".
See the "Do's and Donts'? That is their SAVIOR, and that is Not JESUS.
That is not real faith in Christ, that is SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, ....= trying to make self RIGHT with God... and that faith is broken....."fallen FROM Grace". "their understanding is Darkened".. they are "mind blinded", Paul teaches.

Salvation is God's Righteousness, given as "the Gift of Righteousness" that is our Eternal Salvation.
God's Salvation is Christ on the Cross, and once this BLOOD ATONEMENT is applied to you, its DONE.
However, its very easy to lose this knowledge and get swept away from this Real faith, into Self SAVING.
You must live in this verse.... Hebrews 13:9
A person or a denomination or a cult, will cause you to lose the right understanding of Salvation that is a GIFT from God.
These are the Devil's ministers.. and they live on forums, in Pulpits, they start Denominations, and they write commentaries... to try to ruin your FAITH, or to try to keep you away from Real faith so that you die and go to hell.
When they do this to a born again Believer, Paul says...>"who has BEWITCHED YOU< that you no longer OBEY the Truth".

Who will do this to you?

A.) Forums are filled with these people.
B.) Pulpits are filled with these people.

Its Anyone who believes they can lose their salvation, as that person, is "fallen from Grace" and cannot teach the True Gospel, as they have left it, they are "bewitched", and they will do the same to you, and have...if you believe you can lose your Salvation.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree with your premise regarding this statement @Behold

-
"leaving the faith"... is not losing Salvation, as if you gave God your faith, one time, then God gave you His Salvation, that is eternal. And God now has the responsibility of your Salvation... To complete it.
Philippians 1:6

as it contradicts Hebrews 6:4-8. The only reason anyone would leave the faith is if they have sinned in some way or they have been hurt or their conscience has somehow been corrupted. God does not give us faith to believe in him so that we will accept him as our lord and savior. We believe because we have "decided" that everything spoken to us regarding his message of salvation...or that we have read or what has resignated in our hearts, has bought us to the place of believing and therefore recieving those truths about his son in our hearts.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

How could Christ, after dying at Calvary go and make proclamation of the message to people who had previously died, if they had no consciousness to hear the message?
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built 1Peter3:18-20

Welcome to the forums @Daydreamer
Love the name !

Some ppl believe junk to sooth their own conscience and others believe it bc that have been so indoctrinated by brain-washing repetitions that have lulled them to sleep !

AWAKE from your slumber ppl. Get sober, the devil is not asleep but desires to steal your soul.

Lazarus and the beggar in Abraham's bosom rubs out theories of no alertness of the soul after death. This is the only time we have recorded by Jesus in the N. T. where he was teaching them without a parable but was telling of such 2 ppl in places of torture or peace. Never before does he us names, NEVER!

NO where is it said the dead are not aware.
Lazarus did not want his unsaved brothers to go thru this. He saw the beggar, he knew he thirsted and the flames tortured him. AWARENESS !

To those whom think YOUR heaven or hell is here on this earth while your alive, sad reckoning coming to you guys !
To those who don't care or just don't believe the Word of God is as it states, you too are in for a rude awakening!

This thread however is titled in an OXYMORON of jumbled words such as
Jumbo shrimp...............Lol

Awaken,be SOBER be vigilant,THIS IS LIFE OR DEATH FOR ALL ETERNITY. YOUR LIFE!

 

[Robert Gwin]

How could Christ, after dying at Calvary go and make proclamation of the message to people who had previously died, if they had no consciousness to hear the message?
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built 1Peter3:18-20

Jesus did nothing while in the grave, he was resurrected a spirit on the third day. You are simply mistaken on the time that event occurred. The Bible does not contradict itself, nor is it wrong when it defines death: (Psalm 146:3, 4) . . .Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 9:5-10) . . .For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . . 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

Jehovah defined death to Adam: (Genesis 3:19) . . .In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Like you mentioned, that isn't the end of the matter, we have the resurrection that does bring us back to life, but the time we spend in the grave is like before we were born, we simply do not exist.

 

[Daydreamer]

Jesus did nothing while in the grave, he was resurrected a spirit on the third day. You are simply mistaken on the time that event occurred. The Bible does not contradict itself, nor is it wrong when it defines death: (Psalm 146:3, 4) . . .Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 9:5-10) . . .For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . . 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

Jehovah defined death to Adam: (Genesis 3:19) . . .In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Like you mentioned, that isn't the end of the matter, we have the resurrection that does bring us back to life, but the time we spend in the grave is like before we were born, we simply do not exist.

For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 1Peter4:6
That's a pretty clear statement. How can the Gospel be preached to those who are dead if they have no consciousness to hear that Gospel?
And Im sorry, but the bible disagrees with your opinion as to what happened when Christ died at Calvary:

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1Peter 3:18-20
Both scriptures confirm the same thing

 

[Robert Gwin]

For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 1Peter4:6
That's a pretty clear statement. How can the Gospel be preached to those who are dead if they have no consciousness to hear that Gospel?
And Im sorry, but the bible disagrees with your opinion as to what happened when Christ died at Calvary:

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1Peter 3:18-20
Both scriptures confirm the same thing

Those of 1 Pet 4:6 were not dead sir, rather they were dead spiritually, those hearing Christ were ‘dead in trespasses and sins’ before hearing but would begin to ‘live’ spiritually because of faith in the good news.—Eph 2:1

And like the verse stated after he was quickened (raised) he went and preached to the demons in prison, who had been in such since the flood. Remember it was satan that said you would not die, not Jehovah.

 

[Daydreamer]

Those of 1 Pet 4:6 were not dead sir, rather they were dead spiritually, those hearing Christ were ‘dead in trespasses and sins’ before hearing but would begin to ‘live’ spiritually because of faith in the good news.—Eph 2:1

And like the verse stated after he was quickened (raised) he went and preached to the demons in prison, who had been in such since the flood. Remember it was satan that said you would not die, not Jehovah.

Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.” John8:51

 

[Robert Gwin]

Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.” John8:51

Do you believe that is a true statement Day?

 

[Daydreamer]

Do you believe that is a true statement Day?

Yes I believe it is true. Jesus said: never see death. Jesus obviously was not referring to physical death
Abraham rejoiced to see Christ’s day. When? When he walked this earth?

Moses and Elijah met with Christ on the Mt of transfiguration.

And the souls under the altar cried out to God. (Rev ch6)

However, we are never going to agree here are we. And, we would agree, it is hardly a salvational matter, so we can both keep our own belief on the subject and sleep at ease

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes I believe it is true. Jesus said: never see death. Jesus obviously was not referring to physical death
Abraham rejoiced to see Christ’s day. When? When he walked this earth?

Moses and Elijah met with Christ on the Mt of transfiguration.

And the souls under the altar cried out to God. (Rev ch6)

However, we are never going to agree here are we. And, we would agree, it is hardly a salvational matter, so we can both keep our own belief on the subject and sleep at ease

Keep in mind that was a vision sir, not literal. Jesus had not yet paid the ransom for what Adam had lost for mankind. Their resurrection is yet future. The Bible explains what death is, nothing lives on, it is as before you were born.

 

[Daydreamer]

Keep in mind that was a vision sir, not literal. Jesus had not yet paid the ransom for what Adam had lost for mankind. Their resurrection is yet future. The Bible explains what death is, nothing lives on, it is as before you were born.

Rather than go round in circles, let us leave it there

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Phil 1:5-6
5 "for your fellowship in furtherance of the gospel from the first day until now"
6 "being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ"

Paul's confidence is not based on OSAS for that idea is not even found in the context. But Paul's confidence that God would continue that good work in them was based upon the fact that those Christians in Philippi had faithfully remained in fellowship from "the first day until now", they had remained faithful from initially becoming Christians until now.

The verb 'confident' is perfect tense denoting an act done in the past with a continuing effect. Due to Paul's past experiences that those Philippians were faithful in the past in their work of furthering the gospel, Paul was presently confident that God would continue that work. Those Philippians past and present work was a good indicator for Paul they were faithful and would continue that work in furthering the gospel even though they had faced persecutions, (Phil 1:29-30).

Christians can become unfaithful and fall away as those in Galatia, (Gal 5:4) who allowed false teachers to lead them astray from the true gospel to a false gospel (Gal 1:6-7), they had lost their persuasion (Gal 5:7) whereby Paul was afraid all his labor with them was in vain for their being perverted from the gospel (Gal 4:11). There is no salvation, no power to save apart from the gospel of Christ (Rom 1:16).