Legalism 101

[Behold]

You are preaching to choir about abortion....over 1600 babies murdered a day.
But as far as the Christian persecutions, you could not describe it on this forum.
The Covid pandemic was a planned event.

Let me tell you about a certain recent christian persecution.
My younger brother, Robert, is in the Ukraine for the last 25 yrs.
Hes a missionary, along with his wife, Andrea.
He's also mission's director for "Mission to the World" (Presbyterian branch)
They have built churches, taught thousands, and led so many to Jesus.
His wife is there and they have 3 daughters, who were conceived there.
Currently, he can't get a Covid shot there, nor can his family, because they are not "Nationals".

A.) He is a Christian, so we wont give them the meds, and we hope they get it and all die.

He did...>He did get it, and the wife, and the 2 girls, (one is in the States).
They would not allow him or his family to fly out.
They made him stay there SICK, without meds, and the family.
Everyone is much better.
No one died. = Thank you Jesus.

So, yeah, i am acquainted with that persecution.
And ive faced my own as well.
-
Here is their recent E-letter they send out to their supporters.
I'll share it with you.
Robert is the last photo, with the cats.
He basically was too weak to do anything else for a few weeks.
He laid there and tried not to die.
He's better now.
-

Breaking Ground

Odessa can experience fairly cold, hard winters even though we are on the shores of the Black Sea. Last winter had more snow and freezing temperatures than the previous one but, regardless of severity, the packed earth in planting areas around the city gets a fresh start each spring. Slowly, but surely, we notice our hard-working, neighborhood groundskeepers, (like Marina pictured above) breaking up the rich, black soil and turning it to allow for the warmer weather’s new growth.

Spiritually-speaking, we have been praying this past season to the Lord of the Harvest to prepare good soil for the sowing of His Word. In 2020, our ministries (out of necessity) “went underground” - congregations couldn’t assemble in person, events were cancelled or put on Zoom, and though we gained a teammate, we lost three others. Even after lockdown was lifted, our believing community struggled with staying insular and some grew complacent, distant or shell-shocked by the losses in health and human life. Church attendance is still sporadic and we are discouraged to have barely a handful of Ukrainians participate in outreaches where we try to communicate truth in a fresh and caring way. As Jesus explained in Luke 8, we are aware that “the devil comes and takes away the Word” or it’s stripped from the hearers “in time of testing” due to shallow understanding. And in our port city, nestled between West and East, we see the Word is easily choked out “by the cares and riches and pleasures of life.” Please pray with us that our Heavenly Groundskeeper will walk through this garden, still dormant and gripped by a wintry chill, and break up the hard hearts so His truth can take root and produce much fruit here.

Our churches will celebrate Easter (Pascha) on May 2nd. We are currently going through the Biblical covenants preparing our English students to understand the Old Testament symbolism and modern day significance of Jesus dying in our place and being raised to life eternal! We hope all of you had a joyous celebration of our Savior’s sacrifice and resurrection.

Giving Life a chance to Grow
Most Ukrainians identify as Orthodox and refer to Protestants with the catch-all name “Baptists” (despite their actual denomination). Typically anything not Orthodox is considered suspicious or even heretical. While our Life Care Center (crisis pregnancy support) curriculum is clearly evangelistic, all of our volunteers try to show Christ - not a particular church - through relationships and care for the families; they put into practice what they teach from the Bible.

We’re grateful to all of you who partner in reaching young mothers by supporting us and the Life Care Center. Please pray for many more pre-born lives to be saved and families to experience God’s renewal through the LCC.

Here we go again…

Over the past few weeks many of you have contacted us, concerned about the high number of Russian troops that have gathered on Ukraine’s eastern and southern borders. While this isn’t the first (or even 2nd or 3rd) time this has happened, it nonetheless has us on alert and we are closely monitoring the situation, as well as tweaking our contingency plans should an invasion occur. We believe that if there is some action, it would likely be in the eastern part of Ukraine and around Crimea. Odessa is about 150 miles northwest of Crimea, so we will likely have time to carry out plans. Currently everyone is watching, but no one is panicking and life/ministry goes on as it has the past 6 months. We’ll try to keep you updated as events unfold. Please pray that our churches would not be gripped by fear, but continue to boldly proclaim Christ through word and deed in each region.

Struck by Cats and Covid
Some of you noticed we’ve been quiet lately. About a month ago, our family (minus Abigail, who is in the States) contracted Covid. For Andrea & Iris it was basically a bad cold and the loss of their sense of smell (which has since already returned). Emily experienced more aches, fever and lack of energy but Bob’s reaction was most severe; for nearly two weeks he slept about 18 hours a day and had the strong body aches, fever and malaise that accompany Covid. Though we understand his experience with Covid could have been far worse, we were disappointed to see that a secondary infection of double pneumonia started on its heels. We are extremely thankful to God for the daily support and urging of our team and Ukrainian brothers and sisters, which allowed us to catch the pneumonia early and treat it aggressively, so that Bob did not require hospitalization.

Although they lacked energy and napped often, we discovered that Emily and Bob still wanted to be near everyone - so they usually ended up crashing on a little pallet we set up on the kitchen floor. Not ones to pass up a cushy, feverishly warm body, Ksusha and Mango always took advantage of the situation. Emily is all better, and as of today Bob feels about 85% back to normal.

Thank you for your prayers, encouragement and partnership with us in ministry in Ukraine. We couldn’t be here without you!
In His grace alone,
Bob & Andrea Burnham
Copyright (C) 2021 Robert & Andrea Burnham. All rights reserved.
Robert & Andrea Burnham
Box 7
Odessa 65001
Ukraine

 

[Wynona]

Behold, you seem to be making the case that any effort on our part negates trusting in Jesus Christ's blood for our sins.

But what do you do when temptation comes? Is resisting the devil not effort on our part?

What about 1 Corinthians 9:27?

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Isn't there effort implied in verses like that one?

Also, if you are always saved when you're born again, why does Paul fear being a castaway?

Personally, my walk with God was one of confusion when I kept hearing about this effortless system of grace.

I was supposed to get better by simply trusting in the grace of God and avoiding self-effort. But that didn't happen. Sin mopped the floor up with me.

But the thing is, I believe it does take effort to mortify the flesh. When temptation comes, resistance is not effortless.

Believing in Jesus is great. Even the demons believe. But when I read the Bible, it seems to describe salvation as faith working itself out as obedience.

 

[kcnalp]

Daniel chap 4 gives the account sir, we believe the period was 2520 years, with Zedekiah being removed in 607 BCE, and then the next King Jesus being enthroned in 1914. JW.org can provide further information on the subject. I would be glad to give you more info, but do not know how I can contact you, I doubt we are allowed to share email information here, but if not let me know and I will give you my e address.

Are there any JW doctrines you disagree with? Or has Kingdom Hall totally washed your brain? You made a HUGE mistake trusting Kingdom Hall over our Christian Bible.

 

[Triumph1300]

No, the Bible is not telling us to be legalists, lol......

Lots of it on this forum, Ferris.

 

[Grailhunter]

Let me tell you about a certain recent christian persecution.
My younger brother, Robert, is in the Ukraine for the last 25 yrs.
Hes a missionary, along with his wife, Andrea.
He's also mission's director for "Mission to the World" (Presbyterian branch)
They have built churches, taught thousands, and led so many to Jesus.
His wife is there and they have 3 daughters, who were conceived there.
Currently, he can't get a Covid shot there, nor can his family, because they are not "Nationals".

A.) He is a Christian, so we wont give them the meds, and we hope they get it and all die.

He did...>He did get it, and the wife, and the 2 girls, (one is in the States).
They would not allow him or his family to fly out.
They made him stay there SICK, without meds, and the family.
Everyone is much better.
No one died. = Thank you Jesus.

So, yeah, i am acquainted with that persecution.
And ive faced my own as well.
-
Here is their recent E-letter they send out to their supporters.
I'll share it with you.
Robert is the last photo, with the cats.
He basically was too weak to do anything else for a few weeks.
He laid there and tried not to die.
He's better now.
-

Breaking Ground

Odessa can experience fairly cold, hard winters even though we are on the shores of the Black Sea. Last winter had more snow and freezing temperatures than the previous one but, regardless of severity, the packed earth in planting areas around the city gets a fresh start each spring. Slowly, but surely, we notice our hard-working, neighborhood groundskeepers, (like Marina pictured above) breaking up the rich, black soil and turning it to allow for the warmer weather’s new growth.

Spiritually-speaking, we have been praying this past season to the Lord of the Harvest to prepare good soil for the sowing of His Word. In 2020, our ministries (out of necessity) “went underground” - congregations couldn’t assemble in person, events were cancelled or put on Zoom, and though we gained a teammate, we lost three others. Even after lockdown was lifted, our believing community struggled with staying insular and some grew complacent, distant or shell-shocked by the losses in health and human life. Church attendance is still sporadic and we are discouraged to have barely a handful of Ukrainians participate in outreaches where we try to communicate truth in a fresh and caring way. As Jesus explained in Luke 8, we are aware that “the devil comes and takes away the Word” or it’s stripped from the hearers “in time of testing” due to shallow understanding. And in our port city, nestled between West and East, we see the Word is easily choked out “by the cares and riches and pleasures of life.” Please pray with us that our Heavenly Groundskeeper will walk through this garden, still dormant and gripped by a wintry chill, and break up the hard hearts so His truth can take root and produce much fruit here.

Our churches will celebrate Easter (Pascha) on May 2nd. We are currently going through the Biblical covenants preparing our English students to understand the Old Testament symbolism and modern day significance of Jesus dying in our place and being raised to life eternal! We hope all of you had a joyous celebration of our Savior’s sacrifice and resurrection.

Giving Life a chance to Grow
Most Ukrainians identify as Orthodox and refer to Protestants with the catch-all name “Baptists” (despite their actual denomination). Typically anything not Orthodox is considered suspicious or even heretical. While our Life Care Center (crisis pregnancy support) curriculum is clearly evangelistic, all of our volunteers try to show Christ - not a particular church - through relationships and care for the families; they put into practice what they teach from the Bible.

We’re grateful to all of you who partner in reaching young mothers by supporting us and the Life Care Center. Please pray for many more pre-born lives to be saved and families to experience God’s renewal through the LCC.

Here we go again…

Over the past few weeks many of you have contacted us, concerned about the high number of Russian troops that have gathered on Ukraine’s eastern and southern borders. While this isn’t the first (or even 2nd or 3rd) time this has happened, it nonetheless has us on alert and we are closely monitoring the situation, as well as tweaking our contingency plans should an invasion occur. We believe that if there is some action, it would likely be in the eastern part of Ukraine and around Crimea. Odessa is about 150 miles northwest of Crimea, so we will likely have time to carry out plans. Currently everyone is watching, but no one is panicking and life/ministry goes on as it has the past 6 months. We’ll try to keep you updated as events unfold. Please pray that our churches would not be gripped by fear, but continue to boldly proclaim Christ through word and deed in each region.

Struck by Cats and Covid
Some of you noticed we’ve been quiet lately. About a month ago, our family (minus Abigail, who is in the States) contracted Covid. For Andrea & Iris it was basically a bad cold and the loss of their sense of smell (which has since already returned). Emily experienced more aches, fever and lack of energy but Bob’s reaction was most severe; for nearly two weeks he slept about 18 hours a day and had the strong body aches, fever and malaise that accompany Covid. Though we understand his experience with Covid could have been far worse, we were disappointed to see that a secondary infection of double pneumonia started on its heels. We are extremely thankful to God for the daily support and urging of our team and Ukrainian brothers and sisters, which allowed us to catch the pneumonia early and treat it aggressively, so that Bob did not require hospitalization.

Although they lacked energy and napped often, we discovered that Emily and Bob still wanted to be near everyone - so they usually ended up crashing on a little pallet we set up on the kitchen floor. Not ones to pass up a cushy, feverishly warm body, Ksusha and Mango always took advantage of the situation. Emily is all better, and as of today Bob feels about 85% back to normal.

Thank you for your prayers, encouragement and partnership with us in ministry in Ukraine. We couldn’t be here without you!
In His grace alone,
Bob & Andrea Burnham
Copyright (C) 2021 Robert & Andrea Burnham. All rights reserved.
Robert & Andrea Burnham
Box 7
Odessa 65001
Ukraine

Prayers for those Christians that are persecuted around the world. I could go on and on about this topic. But mostly it is important for these stories to be heard because we need to keep them in mind, in our hearts and in our prayers.

 

[Behold]

Prayers for those Christians that are persecuted around the world. I could go on and on about this topic. But mostly it is important for these stories to be heard because we need to keep them in mind, in our hearts and in our prayers.

My brother is one of those Christians who is "around the world".
So am i.

 

[marks]

Behold, you seem to be making the case that any effort on our part negates trusting in Jesus Christ's blood for our sins.

But what do you do when temptation comes? Is resisting the devil not effort on our part?

As I see it, the effort is in enduring whatever afflictions are in your life, enduring without sin, in patience and trust, while you give God time to work everything out.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

My brother is one of those Christians who is "around the world".
So am i.

I get it.

 

[Curtis]

.

 

[Curtis]

So, here is what it is.. = Legalism, is trying to keep yours

How salvation really works.


To be saved requires more than just believing in Jesus - we also must choose to repent of our sins as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19 - Acts 20:21) - but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;


So hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.


Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.


That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.


Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and Paul warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:


Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Paul warns us over and over, that if we believers choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.


Scripture clearly shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continuing to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.


In the two verses below, I put in parentheses the conditional part of these scriptures that are always left out by hyper-grace, OSAS teachers.


1Jn 1:7 But (IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light), we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to continue to walk in the light, as He is in the light.


Next:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit).


Having no condemnation, and remaining in Christ, is conditional upon continuing to walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.


And Paul warns us against being deceived about living in sin as a believer, when he wrote:


Gal 6:7 Be Not DECEIVED ; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man SOWETH,that shall he also REAP.


Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; BUT he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting


You reap everlasting life only if you sow to the spirit (walk after the Spirit, Romans 8:1) , but reap spiritual death if you sow to your flesh.


When we do occasionally sin, we must confess it, for God to forgive it. 1 John 1:9.


The lies of hyper grace are twofold: you don’t ever need to repent after salvation when you sin; and you can’t lose salvation.


This makes grace a license to sin, since sin has no eternal penalty.


Thus if you want a mistress on the side, you can have one, and regularly commit adultery - or if you’re a drunkard you can get drunk every day - you can live a sinful lifestyle with impunity.


I personally know people that are living in sin, and use OSAS as their sinning license, and they get angry if you tell them that Paul warned the brethren in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that living in the sin of drunkenness or adultery, etc, will keep them out of heaven.


In that passage, Paul warns some of the believers that they are defrauding their brethren, (which is stealing, being a thief) then warns them that stealing, and other sins, will keep them from heaven:


1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD and that yourbrethren.


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Another warning by Paul, to the saints of God, about living a sinful lifestyle as a child of God:


Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;


Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.


Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


Eph 5:6 Let no man DECEIVE you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH them.



The prodigal son.


In the prodigal son story, the father represents God, thus the son represents believers who are Gods adopted sons.


He’s already a son when the story starts.


He leaves the father to live in sin


When he returns to the father in repentance, the father says: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN, he WAS LOST, but now IS FOUND.


Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother *was dead*, and is *alive again*; and *was lost*, and *is found*.


He obviously wasn’t dead physically and resurrected.


How then was he dead?


He was dead in his sins.


Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened,who *were dead* in *trespasses and sins*


Thus the son was alive, left his Father to live a sinful life, became DEAD in his sins, then returned in repentance, and became alive AGAIN.


In Luke 8 Jesus tells the parable of the sower who sows the seed of the word of God.


Some seed sown lands on a rock. The seed GROWS, and results in new life, but then it withers and dies.


Jesus makes it clear that in the example of the seed sown on a rock, shows that some people BELIEVE for a while, but then FALL AWAY.


Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed...


Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.


Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, *receive the word with joy*; and these have no root, which FOR A WHILE BELIEVE, and in time of temptation FALL AWAY.


Notice above, they *received the word with joy*


To receive the word with joy, is to become a follower of Jesus Christ:


1Th 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the wordin much affliction, with joyof the Holy Ghost.


Some believe for a while, then fall away.

 

[Behold]

How salvation really works.
To be saved requires more than just believing in Jesus - we also must choose to repent of our sins as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19 - Acts 20:21) - but we can’t pre-repent of future sins

Curtis,
thank you for being a Thread Troll and pasting what you didnt actually write.
Also, the repentance that God accepts, is to REPENT of Unbelief. You repent of unbelief and turn to belief. = This is FAITH. "Faith is counted (accepted) AS Righteousness".
God accepts your faith. He then applies the Blood Atonement which makes you as Righteous as the Blood of Jesus, and then God births your dead Spirit into Eternal Life.

Notice Curtis, that God does it all, once you truly BELIEVE just once.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ferris,
Faith in : is what saved her.
Not "faith".
See, she had to BELIEVE something, and in this case, it was in Yeshua.
And the SAVING PART, ....is what?
Is what?
See, this is what you missed.
The saving part is....the previous verses that are the CONTEXT of your verse that you left OUT, of course.

The saving part is..>"your sins are forgiven"..
See that part?
= that is the SAVED part, that can't be changed.

Now ask yourself this, so that you can see just how deep your deception is....... Ask yourself....>"If she stopped believing after she BELIEVED and had her sins FORGIVEN, are her sins going to come BACK or do they STAY FORGIVEN by being Forgiven already"?

Welcome to being BORN AGAIN, deceiver.
It never ENDS, no matter how you THINK on any given day.

I know you didn't invent it, but you easily have the most annoying doctrine in this forum, lol.
Everybody (except you) knows that having faith means having faith in Christ.

 

[Curtis]

Curtis,
thank you for being a Thread Troll and pasting what you didnt actually write.
Also, the repentance that God accepts, is to REPENT of Unbelief. You repent of unbelief and turn to belief. = This is FAITH. "Faith is counted (accepted) AS Righteousness".
God accepts your faith. He then applies the Blood Atonement which makes you as Righteous as the Blood of Jesus, and then God births your dead Spirit into Eternal Life.

Notice Curtis, that God does it all, once you truly BELIEVE just once.

First of all, I wrote every single word I posted, from memory and scripture knowledge.

Secondly, the repentance is from sins, not from unbelief.

Curtis,
thank you for being a Thread Troll and pasting what you didnt actually write.
Also, the repentance that God accepts, is to REPENT of Unbelief. You repent of unbelief and turn to belief. = This is FAITH. "Faith is counted (accepted) AS Righteousness".
God accepts your faith. He then applies the Blood Atonement which makes you as Righteous as the Blood of Jesus, and then God births your dead Spirit into Eternal Life.

Notice Curtis, that God does it all, once you truly BELIEVE just once.

First of all, I copied no ones words - those are all my words, you can repent now of insulting me and calling me a troll.

Secondly, the word REPENT is metanoeo, in the Greek, which means to change your mind about sin.

Here’s lexicon and dictionary definition of metanoeo:

G3340 - metanoeō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

 

[Robert Gwin]

Are there any JW doctrines you disagree with? Or has Kingdom Hall totally washed your brain? You made a HUGE mistake trusting Kingdom Hall over our Christian Bible.

Hi KC, don't know how this happened but supposedly this is a new post, but we discussed this previously I believe, may have been someone else though, but looks very familiar. The Bible identifies the true faith sir, there is only one faith Eph 4:5 and God does not leave us in the cold, how could He? He requires our obedience, and if He didn't make known how to serve Him, He being a God of Justice could not convict those who He has not reached with instruction.

Do you believe the Bible identifies the path for Christians?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The time of the Gentiles started when the Cross was raised, and it will end the very second the Great Trib Starts.

Paul is the "Gentile Apostile', in the "Time of the Gentiles", that began with the Cross being raised.

We believe this Be:
The ‘trampling’ on that kingdom of the dynasty of Davidic rulers did not begin with the Roman devastation of the city of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. It began centuries earlier with the Babylonian overthrow of that dynasty in 607 B.C.E. when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and took captive the dethroned king Zedekiah and the land was left desolate. (2Ki 25:1-26) This accorded with the prophetic words directed to Zedekiah at Ezekiel 21:25-27, namely: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. This will not be the same. . . . A ruin, a ruin, a ruin I shall make it. As for this also, it will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown lost by Zedekiah is demonstrated in the Christian Greek Scriptures to be Christ Jesus, of whom the angel, announcing his future birth, said: “Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule as king over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end of his kingdom.”—Lu 1:32, 33.

With Jerusalem’s fall in 607 B.C.E. the Gentile powers exercised domination over the entire earth. The Davidic dynasty and rule suffered interruption, and so Jerusalem, or what it stood for, would continue to be “trampled on” as long as God’s kingdom, as functioning through David’s house, was kept in a low, inoperative condition under the Gentile powers. Observing this connection with rulership Unger’s Bible Dictionary (1965, p. 398) comments: “Consequently Gentiles move on as ‘the nations’ to the end of their stewardship as earth rulers. The termination of this period will be the end of the ‘times of the Gentiles’ (Luke 21:24; Dan. 2:36-44).”—Compare Eze 17:12-21; also the description of Medo-Persia’s fall at Da 8:7, 20.

 

[kcnalp]

We believe this Be:
The ‘trampling’ on that kingdom of the dynasty of Davidic rulers did not begin with the Roman devastation of the city of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. It began centuries earlier with the Babylonian overthrow of that dynasty in 607 B.C.E. when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and took captive the dethroned king Zedekiah and the land was left desolate. (2Ki 25:1-26) This accorded with the prophetic words directed to Zedekiah at Ezekiel 21:25-27, namely: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. This will not be the same. . . . A ruin, a ruin, a ruin I shall make it. As for this also, it will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown lost by Zedekiah is demonstrated in the Christian Greek Scriptures to be Christ Jesus, of whom the angel, announcing his future birth, said: “Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule as king over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end of his kingdom.”—Lu 1:32, 33.

With Jerusalem’s fall in 607 B.C.E. the Gentile powers exercised domination over the entire earth. The Davidic dynasty and rule suffered interruption, and so Jerusalem, or what it stood for, would continue to be “trampled on” as long as God’s kingdom, as functioning through David’s house, was kept in a low, inoperative condition under the Gentile powers. Observing this connection with rulership Unger’s Bible Dictionary (1965, p. 398) comments: “Consequently Gentiles move on as ‘the nations’ to the end of their stewardship as earth rulers. The termination of this period will be the end of the ‘times of the Gentiles’ (Luke 21:24; Dan. 2:36-44).”—Compare Eze 17:12-21; also the description of Medo-Persia’s fall at Da 8:7, 20.

We, meaning Kingdom Hall?

 

[Robert Gwin]

We, meaning Kingdom Hall?

A Kingdom hall is a building sir that Jehovah's people used to meet for Christian meetings.

When I say "we" I am speaking of Jehovah's witnesses

 

[kcnalp]

A Kingdom hall is a building sir that Jehovah's people used to meet for Christian meetings.

When I say "we" I am speaking of Jehovah's witnesses

So you speak for all JW's?

 

[Robert Gwin]

So you speak for all JW's?

I had better K, if I am not then there is a problem, as we are all to speak in agreement 1 Cor 1:10

 

[kcnalp]

I had better K, if I am not then there is a problem, as we are all to speak in agreement 1 Cor 1:10

There is a "problem" for JW's alright. It's called the Bible that Kingdom Hall twists the Hell out of.