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Legalism 101

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Behold, Apr 23, 2021.

  1. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Legalism.

    As found in Christianity, in the "time of the Gentiles".... is when a person has substituted anything for the BLood of Jesus, = their SELF Effort, to do for themselves, only what The Blood Of Jesus Can Do.

    This can be a very refined and clever self deception. = Where a person finds a handful of verses, often symbolic, that leads them to try to do, one thing..
    See, the root of legalism, is only trying to do ONE THING. JUST ONE. And every Legalist is caught up in this one pursuit. And being caught up in it, causes them to fall from Grace and commit the "error of cain".

    If you read JUDE. He explains the "error of Cain". And this is very simple, and yet, its the profound curse of spiritual apostasy that you find in the body of Christ today, just before Jesus comes back.
    Pulpits and forums are full of these people. Mods, members, its RAMPANT.
    You can literally find about 2% of the membership of a "christian" forum, that isn't Legalism.

    So, here is what it is.. = Legalism, is trying to keep yourself SAVED, by whatever means you have concluded must be done, by YOU< to do it for yourself.
    This can be, "holding onto faith", or "commandment keeping" or 50 other things that make up the LIST of "i have to do that", and "i must not do that".......in the effort to try to STAY SAVED, or keep from losing your salvation.
    A legalist will argue till they hairlip hell itself, regarding why they are doing what they are doing, that they MUST DO, to try not to lose their salvation.

    So, what has happened?
    Well the person has STOPPED TRUSTING IN CHRIST ALONE, to get them into heaven.
    They have "fallen from Grace".
    And once they did, they found a substitute that they are DOING, that they BELIEVE they have to DO, and if they dont, they lose their salvation.
    So, this is a SELF issue, where SELF has become savior of SELF, and Christ has been ripped off the Nails, and SELF is now up there on the Cross, trying to KEEP SELF SAVED.
     
  2. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Hi Behold, the times of the Gentiles was a period of time where there was no King setting on God's throne over the earth. It was prophesied in Daniel to be a period of 7 times, and was foreshadowed by Nebuchadnezzar being removed from his throne for 7 yrs. What it really meant was that Jehovah would not have a King over His people on the earth for that time period. The last king to set on His throne, was Zedekiah, and the next at the end of those times was Jesus, who is now the enthroned King of the Kingdom of God. When he received the crown, that ended the appointed times of the nations sir.
     
  3. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    No, the Bible is not telling us to be legalists, lol......

    fight the good fight, holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith. 1 Timothy 1:18-19
     
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  4. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Really? I am having difficulty with your understanding. The times of the Gentiles is for a fixed period of time which in Dan. 8 we are told will be 2,300 years during which, God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts will be trampled by the kings of the earth.

    God's everlasting Kingdom has as yet, not been set up, but it will be within the next 25 or so years from now.

    Also at this present time Christ, i.e. the Son of Man, has not been given dominion over the peoples of the earth such that they should worship Him. The too will be given to Him within the next 25 or so years from now.

    Israel at present are experiencing the visitation of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and their children's children during the third and fourth age of their existence.

    Perhaps I am missing the scriptures from which you have come to your understanding which I have quoted above.

    Shalom.
     
  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You keep beating this straw man to death. There may be very few who -- knowing the Gospel -- "try to keep themselves saved". Genuine Christians know that (a) they are saved by grace and (b) they are kept by the power of God. So this is simply a straw man which you love to beat to death. And this has nothing to do with the prophetic "times of the Gentiles".
     
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  6. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Daniel chap 4 gives the account sir, we believe the period was 2520 years, with Zedekiah being removed in 607 BCE, and then the next King Jesus being enthroned in 1914. JW.org can provide further information on the subject. I would be glad to give you more info, but do not know how I can contact you, I doubt we are allowed to share email information here, but if not let me know and I will give you my e address.
     
  7. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Sir, I find that the reasoning for the establishment of your timeline of the event is flawed in that the time period spoken about in Dan 4 is with respect to the king of Babylon and is not with respect to the kings over Judah as the JW understanding depicts as to when Jesus was enthroned as king.

    As for exchanging email addresses, I am not interested in doing that as I can search the JW's web sight for myself and draw my own conclusions.

    Shalom
     
  8. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again.
    I do like the whole "time of the Gentiles" thing. LOL because we are still in the time of the Gentiles. Most cannot trace their lineage back to Jews.
    The real legalist of the biblical era was the Judaizes, who want to incorporate Judaism into Christianity. The 613 Mosaic Laws.
    There is no such thing as legalist scriptures. So if someone is quoting scriptures it cannot be "legalist scriptures."

    Now, as I said before someone can cherry pick from either extreme. Focus on particular scriptures...this is true of several topics.
    In that effort say hello to the 30,000 Protestant denominations because between this method of formulating beliefs and shear ignorance, that is how we got so many interpretations of the Bible...LOL In the Fundamentalist attempt to go back to the basic...It is this method that has caused all of the confusion. I find a certain amount of humor to this.

    You have to understand the NT as a whole. It all formulates to a true belief. Picking out your favorite scriptures is a sure fire way of coming up with a false belief. The Bible states that the amazing Grace of Christ can save you and sinful lifestyles can damn you. Both are true. The Bible indicates that salvation is secure and it also says by your own efforts you can fall away...even to the point that there is no return. Both are true. The Bible says there are Good Deeds that have rewards, but He also makes it clear that Good Deeds do not secure you, sin can separate you from Christ to the point that He says he never knew and you are hell bound.

    You have to understand the Bible as a whole. If not, there is no understanding.
     
  9. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    The time of the Gentiles started when the Cross was raised, and it will end the very second the Great Trib Starts.

    Paul is the "Gentile Apostile', in the "Time of the Gentiles", that began with the Cross being raised.
     
  10. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    "Holding on to faith", is explained by James, as not having "dead faith".
    This happens when a person is cold to the things of Christ, and probably backslidden.

    Faith can't save you.
    So, when you try to keep yourself saved by holding onto faith, you are trying to save yourself by doing that, and that's a fail.
     
  11. Gary Urban

    Gary Urban Active Member

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    I would offer. Gentile, a word which literally means nation, a person or family who is not Jewish. It is used in ceremonial shadows a picture of the gospel to all the nations of the world.

    Out of one new nation Abram meaning exalted father of one nation. His mother was a Hittite and father a Amorite enemies of the Jew. .

    God gave Abram a new name to represent Himself the Bossum or very presence of God in us. .Emanual . Abraham meaning the father of a multitude of nations. . today called the Christian nation, the united nation of nations previously calling her Israel.

    The unbelieving Jews (1 Samuel 8) had become jealous of the surrounding pagan nations. They refused to walk by faith and demanded a king and its government of men that lord it over the non-venerable show watchers . .God gave them over to perform that abomination of desolation.

    When the time of reformation came the mysteryof that parable was made known.(Hebrew 9) The government of man lording it over the flock was made desolate at the renting of the veil by and through all things written in the law and prophets. . the reforming restoring tool in any generation where two or three (a nation) gathers together under it, as it is written . . I time like never before or ever again.

    Satan fell. "Christian" a denomyn used to identify peple by location literaly means ( residents of the city of Christ prepared as the bride, named after her founder and husband Christ). It would seem a more befiting name the Father named of the bride made up of all the nations

    Revelation 20: 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  12. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Let me highlight the so called "believers" who are trying to save themselves by holding onto faith, or whatever they are holding unto that is a part of their effort.

    If a person believes they can lose their salvation, then they are the person who is the Legalist, the Cross rejector, who does not realize they are fallen from Grace.
    This is the SELF SAVER.
    Justbyfaith
    ferris bueller
    wrangler
    Enoch111
     
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  13. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting to learn what cult you belong to that does not teach that we are currently in the "time of the Gentiles".
    I doubt you'll tell us.
     
  14. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Do you want to rephrase that?
    Are we not in the times of the Gentiles or are we in the times of the Gentiles?
    If we could trace our lineage back to the first Christian in our ancestory....it would probably be a Pagan.
    By no stretch of the imagination are we in the times of the Jews.
     
  15. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    The "time of the Gentiles" is when God has set aside the Jews, in favor of the Gentiles.
    This began when the Cross was raised and will end when the Great Trib starts.
    At that time, God resumes His dealing with the Jew as the Bride of Christ wont be on the Earth, as the "time of the Gentiles will be OVER".
    The "church age" will be over.
     
  16. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Part of that is incorrect and part of that is speculation.
    As far as the Great Tribulations...you might want to review what happened between the time of the Cross and 325 ad. A little under 300 years of horror.
     
  17. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Don't tell me, tell Jesus....

    Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” Luke 7:50
     
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  18. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Ferris,
    Faith in : is what saved her.
    Not "faith".
    See, she had to BELIEVE something, and in this case, it was in Yeshua.
    And the SAVING PART, ....is what?
    Is what?
    See, this is what you missed.
    The saving part is....the previous verses that are the CONTEXT of your verse that you left OUT, of course.

    The saving part is..>"your sins are forgiven"..
    See that part?
    = that is the SAVED part, that can't be changed.

    Now ask yourself this, so that you can see just how deep your deception is....... Ask yourself....>"If she stopped believing after she BELIEVED and had her sins FORGIVEN, are her sins going to come BACK or do they STAY FORGIVEN by being Forgiven already"?

    Welcome to being BORN AGAIN, deceiver.
    It never ENDS, no matter how you THINK on any given day.
     
  19. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    If you want to see a time of Horror, turn on your TV and look at what is happening in India. They are burning bodies, near the Capital, in an open pit. Its a big Covid crematorium.

    Want more horror?
    Try 50 million infants murdered in the womb, in the USA, since abortion murder was "legalized".
     
  20. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    You are preaching to choir about abortion....over 1600 babies murdered a day.
    But as far as the Christian persecutions, you could not describe it on this forum.
    The Covid pandemic was a planned event.
     
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