LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU! WAKE UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

[Scott Downey]

In regard to 2 Timothy 2:12, we see a contrast with, "if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. If we endure, we shall also reign with Him -- AND -- If we deny Him, He also will deny us. If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

"By contrast, the latter "deny Him and faithless" points to the opposite of died with Him, endure and reign with Him. To "deny him" does not point merely to a temporary weakness of faith, as in the case of Peter who denied Jesus three times during a moment of weakness (Luke 22:54-62) but is referring to life in its entirety. The inevitable result is that "He will also deny us."

The warning is repeated in the final sentence, "if we are faithless, he abides faithful." To be "faithless" is in the present tense and denotes this as the habitual attitude, not a temporary lapse of faith. But in contrast to human faithlessness, "He remains faithful," faithful to His word and righteous character and His warning that unbelievers will be rejected.

You need to read 1 Timothy 5:12 in context. Ntice the contrast between verse 5, "Now she who is really a widow, and left alone, trusts in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day" and verse 6, "But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. This means dead (spiritually) while living (physically). Paul said in verse 6, But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. He also said in verse 11, But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married. "Lives in pleasure," "sensual desires." 12 thus incurring condemnation,

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me. And the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Romans 6

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, so we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

6 knowing this: that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

1 Thess 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort yourselves together and edify one another, even as also ye do.


Colossians 3
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness which is idolatry.

6 Because of these, the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience,

7 in which ye also once walked, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Do not lie one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds,

10 and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him,

11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

 

[faithhopecharity]

In regard to 2 Timothy 2:12, we see a contrast with, "if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. If we endure, we shall also reign with Him -- AND -- If we deny Him, He also will deny us. If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

"By contrast, the latter "deny Him and faithless" points to the opposite of died with Him, endure and reign with Him. To "deny him" does not point merely to a temporary weakness of faith, as in the case of Peter who denied Jesus three times during a moment of weakness (Luke 22:54-62) but is referring to life in its entirety. The inevitable result is that "He will also deny us."

The warning is repeated in the final sentence, "if we are faithless, he abides faithful." To be "faithless" is in the present tense and denotes this as the habitual attitude, not a temporary lapse of faith. But in contrast to human faithlessness, "He remains faithful," faithful to His word and righteous character and His warning that unbelievers will be rejected.

You need to read 1 Timothy 5:12 in context. Ntice the contrast between verse 5, "Now she who is really a widow, and left alone, trusts in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day" and verse 6, "But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. This means dead (spiritually) while living (physically). Paul said in verse 6, But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. He also said in verse 11, But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married. "Lives in pleasure," "sensual desires." 12 thus incurring condemnation, because they have set aside their previous pledge.

Who is our teacher?

What is the rule of faith or source of truth?

Thks

 

[LoveYeshua]

then

Only God can infallibly decide who is saved. Only God infallibly knows the hearts of all mankind. The Gospel is offered to all, and each person is genuinely called to respond in faith. (Acts 15:7-9) While God decides who is saved, the invitation is open to everyone (Romans 1:16) and rejection of that invitation is a real and accountable choice. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

how can OSAS be true? and just a remark, not a verse from Christ?.....

 

[mailmandan]

then

how can OSAS be true? and just a remark, not a verse from Christ?.....

John 6:37 - Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:27 - My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

 

[LoveYeshua]

John 6:37 - Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:27 - My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Do you want to see the many verses and and parables from Jesus that says we have to Keep the commandments, remain faithful and persevere and abide in him? Paul says the same, We have to look at all Jesus said and not only the verses that fit with our thinking, all of what He spoke of or we do not have the truth of the matter.

who are the sheep?, ill tell you right here and Now, they are the ones who Love him to death and do as he asks, that is to keep all the commandments he spoke about, the ten commandments and anything else he asked us to keep or do, these are the sheep given to Jesus and he will not let them be lost but there are not many. Just saying Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God iand believing it s not enough if we do not obey. Now I don't mean here to work for salvation it is not what I say here at all but its what Jesus says "if you love me, Keep my commandments"

Once you belong to God your heart is changed and you see the truth and willingly embrace the words Jesus spoke and left for us , His words are eternal Life. That is the Work of the Holy Spirit sent to his believers from God the father, exactly as Jesus said he would do. However in this evil world, temptation is everywhere and we are tested, thus the perseverance Jesus talks about, it is a daily walk and it is not easy but We can overcome with God's help, we just need to ask him ans he answers, always if it is good for us to do so.

I will do anything he ask of me because I love him above all else and always will, I always loved him.

We have to be careful not to be deceived by doctrines of men, so many are not in accordance with scripture. we have to be on our guard contently.

 

[Dryhn]

We can always repent and confess in this life

1 Jn 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Thks

Thx faith, I know the teachings of John
Paul is who I listen to regarding how to enter Heaven because Jesus selected & taught him for that role :)
Acts 9:15
Rom 11:13
Rom 15:16
Gal 1:11-12
Gal 2:7-9

 

[Davy]

I strongly disagree with you. If you are accusing ALL Christians in the OSAS camp of promoting a license to sin, that would make you a false accuser of the brethren.

Once again you bring in IRRELEVANT IDEAS to try to escape the false OSAS doctrine that you believe. Not all Christians believe the OSAS lie that all sin past, present, and future was forgiven at the cross. Christ's Apostles certainly did not believe that, which is why in Paul's Epistles especially he is constantly warning the Church against sin after they have believed on Jesus. Even Lord Jesus in Revelation 2 & 3 is doing the same. And to contradict them is to work against Christ Jesus.

 

[mailmandan]

Once again you bring in IRRELEVANT IDEAS to try to escape the false OSAS doctrine that you believe. Not all Christians believe the OSAS lie that all sin past, present, and future was forgiven at the cross. Christ's Apostles certainly did not believe that, which is why in Paul's Epistles especially he is constantly warning the Church against sin after they have believed on Jesus. Even Lord Jesus in Revelation 2 & 3 is doing the same. And to contradict them is to work against Christ Jesus.

I already covered Revelation 2 & 3 with you along with multiple other passages of scripture and I'm really not interested in your slander or your eisegesis. I have found that false religions and cults which promote salvation by works (including Roman Catholicism and Mormonism) strongly oppose OSAS, which remains a major red flag for me.

 

[Dryhn]

Once again you bring in IRRELEVANT IDEAS to try to escape the false OSAS doctrine that you believe. Not all Christians believe the OSAS lie that all sin past, present, and future was forgiven at the cross. Christ's Apostles certainly did not believe that, which is why in Paul's Epistles especially he is constantly warning the Church against sin after they have believed on Jesus. Even Lord Jesus in Revelation 2 & 3 is doing the same. And to contradict them is to work against Christ Jesus.

Col 2:13...., having forgiven you all trespasses;
Please list where Paul teaches ALL applies only up to a certain time

 

[mailmandan]

Do you want to see the many verses and and parables from Jesus that says we have to Keep the commandments, remain faithful and persevere and abide in him?

I have read those verses numerous times and Jesus was giving us conditional confirmations and was not teaching "type 2 works salvation" or salvation by works at the back door.

Paul says the same, We have to look at all Jesus said and not only the verses that fit with our thinking, all of what He spoke of or we do not have the truth of the matter.

That is a two way street. We need to read scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.

who are the sheep?, ill tell you right here and Now, they are the ones who Love him to death and do as he asks, that is to keep all the commandments he spoke about, the ten commandments and anything else he asked us to keep or do, these are the sheep given to Jesus and he will not let them be lost but there are not many. Just saying Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God iand believing it s not enough if we do not obey. Now I don't mean here to work for salvation it is not what I say here at all but its what Jesus says "if you love me, Keep my commandments"

By your words you seem to be flirting with working for salvation. You seem to be saying that believing is not enough to be saved yet Jesus and the apostle John said otherwise. (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,49,47; 11:25,26; 20:31) You seem to be teaching that salvation is based on keeping the 10 commandments "in addition" to believing.

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Why do believers love God? We love Him because he first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

The love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5)

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, which is descriptive of genuine believers. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not "keep" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. That is descriptive of unbelievers.

Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard (biblehub.com)

Once you belong to God your heart is changed and you see the truth and willingly embrace the words Jesus spoke and left for us , His words are eternal Life. That is the Work of the Holy Spirit sent to his believers from God the father, exactly as Jesus said he would do.

Amen!

However in this evil world, temptation is everywhere and we are tested, thus the perseverance Jesus talks about, it is a daily walk and it is not easy but We can overcome with God's help, we just need to ask him ans he answers, always if it is good for us to do so.

You make it sound like perseverance is an extremely difficult burden that most Christians will surely fail to do, and the Lord will just so easily allow us to slip through his hands. I see perseverance as proof of genuine conversion. Perseverance is not by human willpower alone, put through the inner empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

I will do anything he ask of me because I love him above all else and always will, I always loved him.

Faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6)

We have to be careful not to be deceived by doctrines of men, so many are not in accordance with scripture. we have to be on our guard contently.

We need to beware of false doctrine and contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Thx faith, I know the teachings of John
Paul is who I listen to regarding how to enter Heaven because Jesus selected & taught him for that role :)
Acts 9:15
Rom 11:13
Rom 15:16
Gal 1:11-12
Gal 2:7-9

You say that Paul is the one you listen to regarding how to enter Heaven because Jesus selected and taught him for that role. But where does Jesus actually say that He selected Paul to be the authority on how people enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Let's look at the verses you provided.

Acts 9:15 tells us that Jesus chose Paul as a vessel to carry His name before the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. It establishes his mission, not that he was appointed above the original disciples or given authority to replace the teachings of Jesus.

Romans 11:13 and Romans 15:16 simply confirm that Paul was an apostle and minister to the Gentiles. They describe his ministry, not a special authority over the teachings of Christ.

In Galatians 1:11–12, Paul says that the Gospel he preached came through a revelation of Jesus Christ. But this does not say that Jesus appointed him to supersede the teachings given to the twelve disciples who had lived with Him during his Ministry.

And Galatians 2:7–9 actually shows that Peter, James, and John were recognized as pillars. They acknowledged Paul's ministry to the Gentiles and gave him and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship. It does not say that they placed Paul above themselves.

Now consider the original twelve disciples. Jesus personally chose them to be with Him and sent them to preach (Mark 3:14). They witnessed His ministry from the beginning (John 15:27), and Jesus instructed them:

Matthew 28:20: "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you."

Peter also confirmed that they were witnesses of everything Jesus did and that they had eaten and drunk with Him after His resurrection (Acts 10:39–42).

There is another very important point that cannot be overlooked. Jesus Himself told us whose words will judge us:

John 12:48: "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my sayings, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I spake, the same shall judge him in the last day."

And what did Jesus teach about entering Heaven?

Matthew 7:21: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven."

John 14:15: "If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments."

So yes, Paul was chosen by Jesus, and his mission was important. But none of the verses you presented says that he was chosen specifically to become the authority on how to enter Heaven, above the words Jesus Himself taught.

I believe we should begin with the teachings of the Master, who personally chose the twelve, taught them, and commanded them to teach all nations to observe everything He had commanded.

After all, Jesus did not say that Paul's words would judge us on the last day. He said that His own words would.

That is where our understanding of the way to eternal life must begin.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I have read those verses numerous times and Jesus was giving us conditional confirmations and was not teaching "type 2 works salvation" or salvation by works at the back door.

That is a two way street. We need to read scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.

By your words you seem to be flirting with working for salvation. You seem to be saying that believing is not enough to be saved yet Jesus and the apostle John said otherwise. (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,49,47; 11:25,26; 20:31) You seem to be teaching that salvation is based on keeping the 10 commandments "in addition" to believing.

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Why do believers love God? We love Him because he first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

The love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5)

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, which is descriptive of genuine believers. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not "keep" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. That is descriptive of unbelievers.

Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard (biblehub.com)

Amen!

You make it sound like perseverance is an extremely difficult burden that most Christians will surely fail to do, and the Lord will just so easily allow us to slip through his hands. I see perseverance as proof of genuine conversion. Perseverance is not by human willpower alone, put through the inner empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

Faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6)

We need to beware of false doctrine and contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

you twisted some of what I wrote to you again, work based? James explains this well please refer to his texts. ( James 2:14-26) do you agree with what James wrote?

Did Jesus ever say that following Him would be easy? Quite the opposite. He warned us that the road to eternal life would be narrow and difficult, and that our faith would be tested.

Matthew 16:24: "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

Matthew 7:13–14: Jesus spoke of the narrow gate and the difficult way that leads to life, saying that few find it.

He also warned us that we would face persecution, rejection, and trials:

John 15:20: "Remember the word that I said unto you, A servant is not greater than his lord. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you."

Luke 8:13: Jesus described those who receive the Word with joy and believe for a time, but when temptation comes, they fall away because they have no root.

And what did He say about those who remain faithful?

Matthew 24:13: "But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved."

Revelation 2:10: "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life."

Jesus even told us to count the cost before following Him (Luke 14:28–30), because becoming His disciple requires commitment and perseverance.

So let us not confuse believing in Jesus with simply saying we believe. Jesus taught that true faith must endure, remain faithful, bear fruit, and continue following Him even through trials and suffering.

The question is not simply whether we believe in Jesus today, but whether we remain faithful to Him until the end.

This is what Jesus Himself taught. The way may be difficult, but He has promised the crown of life to those who remain faithful.

 

[mailmandan]

Who is our teacher?

The Holy Spirit. (John 14:26; 16:13; 1 John 2:27)

What is the rule of faith or source of truth?

Thks

The Bible/God's Word. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

 

[mailmandan]

you twisted some of what I wrote to you again, work based?

I was not deliberately trying to twist some of what you wrote and stressed, "seem to be saying."

James explains this well please refer to his texts. ( James 2:14-26) do you agree with what James wrote?

I agree with what James wrote and he was not teaching salvation by works. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

In James 2:24, James is not using the term "justified" in to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Do you agree?

Did Jesus ever say that following Him would be easy?

Following Jesus is not always easy and as Christians, we will face suffering and persecution in this life. (Romans 5:3-4; Philippians 1:29; James 1:2-4; 2 Timothy 3:12; 1 Peter 5:10)

Quite the opposite. He warned us that the road to eternal life would be narrow and difficult, and that our faith would be tested.

Matthew 16:24: "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

Matthew 7:13–14: Jesus spoke of the narrow gate and the difficult way that leads to life, saying that few find it.

The road to eternal life is "narrow" in the sense of having a particular requirement for entrance, faith in Jesus Christ alone. (John 3:15-18) Salvation is found only in Jesus Christ. He is the door (John 10:9) He is the only way (John 14:6). The "wide" gate is non-exclusive; it allows for self-righteousness/works righteousness and all of the world’s religions, apart from Jesus Christ alone.

The narrow road will take us through testing and difficult decisions. Following Jesus requires crucifying our flesh (Galatians 2:20; 5:24), enduring trials with patience (James 1:2-3, 12; 1 Peter 1:6), and living a lifestyle separate from the world. (Romans 12:1-2; James 1:27) When faced with the choice, most people choose the easier road. Human nature gravitates toward comfort and pleasure. When faced with the reality of setting out to be a disciple of Jesus, many people turn away. (John 6:66) Yet Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. (John 6:64; 70-71)

He also warned us that we would face persecution, rejection, and trials:

John 15:20: "Remember the word that I said unto you, A servant is not greater than his lord. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you."

Amen!

Luke 8:13: Jesus described those who receive the Word with joy and believe for a time, but when temptation comes, they fall away because they have no root.

Saving belief endures and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. In Luke 8:15, we read - But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. *Only the 4th soil was referred to as "good ground" and produced a crop (fruit). All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. Those who produce no fruit at all were never saved. Faith without works is dead.

And what did He say about those who remain faithful?

Matthew 24:13: "But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved."

Enduring to the end is a conditional confirmation that one is a child of God and shall be saved. Those who fail to endure demonstrate otherwise and shall not be saved. Others interpret this as physical survival or escaping the judgment on the cities of Israel.

Revelation 2:10: "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life."

I hear folks who teach salvation by works cite this verse quite a bit. Now if Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include any number of good works, which results in "works righteousness."

I see Revelation as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That would be salvation by works! I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Make believers/unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are not faithful unto death. (Matthew 7:22-23)

Jesus even told us to count the cost before following Him (Luke 14:28–30), because becoming His disciple requires commitment and perseverance.

So let us not confuse believing in Jesus with simply saying we believe. Jesus taught that true faith must endure, remain faithful, bear fruit, and continue following Him even through trials and suffering.

The question is not simply whether we believe in Jesus today, but whether we remain faithful to Him until the end.

It's not all about self will power and salvation by works at the back door. Those who persevere and remain faithful demonstrate that their faith was firmly rooted and established from the start. Those who profess to have faith yet do not persevere and remain faithful demonstrate that their faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start. Without God's preservation none of us would make it. (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) So, it's not all about pulling ourselves up by our own bootstraps and remaining faithful/enduring to the end in our own strength to the glory of ourselves.

This is what Jesus Himself taught. The way may be difficult, but He has promised the crown of life to those who remain faithful.

The Bible mentions 5 different crowns. 1. The incorruptible crown. (1 Corinthians 9:25) 2. The crown of rejoicing. (1 Thessalonians 2:19) 3. The crown of righteousness. (2 Timothy 4:8) 4. The crown of glory. (1 Peter 5:4) 5. The crown of life. (Revelation 2:10) In Revelation 19:12, we read that when Jesus returns, on His head will be many crowns.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I was not deliberately trying to twist some of what you wrote and stressed, "seem to be saying."

I agree with what James wrote and he was not teaching salvation by works. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

In James 2:24, James is not using the term "justified" in to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Do you agree?

Following Jesus is not always easy and as Christians, we will face suffering and persecution in this life. (Romans 5:3-4; Philippians 1:29; James 1:2-4; 2 Timothy 3:12; 1 Peter 5:10)

The road to eternal life is "narrow" in the sense of having a particular requirement for entrance, faith in Jesus Christ alone. (John 3:15-18) Salvation is found only in Jesus Christ. He is the door (John 10:9) He is the only way (John 14:6). The "wide" gate is non-exclusive; it allows for self-righteousness/works righteousness and all of the world’s religions, apart from Jesus Christ alone.

The narrow road will take us through testing and difficult decisions. Following Jesus requires crucifying our flesh (Galatians 2:20; 5:24), enduring trials with patience (James 1:2-3, 12; 1 Peter 1:6), and living a lifestyle separate from the world. (Romans 12:1-2; James 1:27) When faced with the choice, most people choose the easier road. Human nature gravitates toward comfort and pleasure. When faced with the reality of setting out to be a disciple of Jesus, many people turn away. (John 6:66) Yet Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. (John 6:64; 70-71)

Amen!

Saving belief endures and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. In Luke 8:15, we read - But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. *Only the 4th soil was referred to as "good ground" and produced a crop (fruit). All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. Those who produce no fruit at all were never saved. Faith without works is dead.

Enduring to the end is a conditional confirmation that one is a child of God and shall be saved. Those who fail to endure demonstrate otherwise and shall not be saved. Others interpret this as physical survival or escaping the judgment on the cities of Israel.

I hear folks who teach salvation by works cite this verse quite a bit. Now if Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include any number of good works, which results in "works righteousness."

I see Revelation as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That would be salvation by works! I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Make believers/unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are not faithful unto death. (Matthew 7:22-23)

It's not all about self will power and salvation by works at the back door. Those who persevere and remain faithful demonstrate that their faith was firmly rooted and established from the start. Those who profess to have faith yet do not persevere and remain faithful demonstrate that their faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start. Without God's preservation none of us would make it. (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) So, it's not all about pulling ourselves up by our own bootstraps and remaining faithful/enduring to the end in our own strength to the glory of ourselves.

The Bible mentions 5 different crowns. 1. The incorruptible crown. (1 Corinthians 9:25) 2. The crown of rejoicing. (1 Thessalonians 2:19) 3. The crown of righteousness. (2 Timothy 4:8) 4. The crown of glory. (1 Peter 5:4) 5. The crown of life. (Revelation 2:10) In Revelation 19:12, we read that when Jesus returns, on His head will be many crowns.

agreed, ill only add the power to overcomes comes from the Holy spirit and us making the right choices doing God's will.

Cheers.

 

[Dryhn]

You say that Paul is the one you listen to regarding how to enter Heaven because Jesus selected and taught him for that role. But where does Jesus actually say that He selected Paul to be the authority on how people enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Let's look at the verses you provided.

Acts 9:15 tells us that Jesus chose Paul as a vessel to carry His name before the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. It establishes his mission, not that he was appointed above the original disciples or given authority to replace the teachings of Jesus.

Romans 11:13 and Romans 15:16 simply confirm that Paul was an apostle and minister to the Gentiles. They describe his ministry, not a special authority over the teachings of Christ.

In Galatians 1:11–12, Paul says that the Gospel he preached came through a revelation of Jesus Christ. But this does not say that Jesus appointed him to supersede the teachings given to the twelve disciples who had lived with Him during his Ministry.

And Galatians 2:7–9 actually shows that Peter, James, and John were recognized as pillars. They acknowledged Paul's ministry to the Gentiles and gave him and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship. It does not say that they placed Paul above themselves.

Now consider the original twelve disciples. Jesus personally chose them to be with Him and sent them to preach (Mark 3:14). They witnessed His ministry from the beginning (John 15:27), and Jesus instructed them:

Matthew 28:20: "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you."

Peter also confirmed that they were witnesses of everything Jesus did and that they had eaten and drunk with Him after His resurrection (Acts 10:39–42).

There is another very important point that cannot be overlooked. Jesus Himself told us whose words will judge us:

John 12:48: "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my sayings, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I spake, the same shall judge him in the last day."

And what did Jesus teach about entering Heaven?

Matthew 7:21: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven."

John 14:15: "If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments."

So yes, Paul was chosen by Jesus, and his mission was important. But none of the verses you presented says that he was chosen specifically to become the authority on how to enter Heaven, above the words Jesus Himself taught.

I believe we should begin with the teachings of the Master, who personally chose the twelve, taught them, and commanded them to teach all nations to observe everything He had commanded.

After all, Jesus did not say that Paul's words would judge us on the last day. He said that His own words would.

That is where our understanding of the way to eternal life must begin.

2 Simple question:)
re Gal 2:7-9
Who are you
Who teaches you the gospel