Let's discuss..cessation after death?

[The Disciple John]

Certainly not in the sense that I would say they should be involuntarily removed from membership. But then, I don't make those decisions, anyway.

But there's no doubt in my mind that some of our members do not emulate Christ.
(In varying degrees, of course, and religionists are everywhere. I don't have to tell you that, I'm sure. We can't expect to be free from them here, and sometimes the nature of interaction in a virtually anonymous community lends itself well to the religionist's cause.)

And we should be doing that everywhere we go.

And I don't do that all of the time.

I mean that sometimes I have to step back and ask myself (and God) "Are you doing more good than harm here or vice versa?"

That's why I say that sometimes I don't know if I belong here.

Wasn't Jesus a "know it all", of course limited only by what was not revealed by the father... who is the biggest "know it all"? ;)

His followers do emulate him.
The disciple John, for example... Not me. actually said this... "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood." 1 John 4:6

Wow. You couldn't get more "know it all" than that?
What is your opinion on that @Johann? @BarnyFife. What do you think?

 

[The Disciple John]

Im not asking for the meaning. I’m asking for your thought on it. If you think it’s symbolic, my first thought was, hmm…symbolic of what? I was curious.

I don’t really see the great harlot as symbolic exactly. I see her as…organized religion which is…the modern day Tower of Babel men have systematically built to try to reach to heaven,

All false religion? Okay. :cool:

and the offshoots/horns as denominations/children of the harlot, each trying to make a name for themselves, who…pick whichever idols of their mother they want to keep and whichever idols of their mother not to keep.That’s an approximation anyway, of what I see.

Offshoots/horns? Babylon the Great? She has no horns. What verse are you thinking of?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

All false religion? Okay. :cool:


Offshoots/horns? Babylon the Great? She has no horns. What verse are you thinking of?

Mmm…offshoots/children. She is the mother of all harlots. I should probably read the verse again.

 

[The Disciple John]

Mmm…offshoots/children. She is the mother of all harlots. I should probably read the verse again.

Oh, children. You are correct. Revelation 17:5
The name written on her forehead was a mystery: babylon the great the mother of prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: cessation after death?

Precious friend, man is body, soul, and spirit (1Thess 5:23),
but Never ceases after death! i.e.:

1) The body "without the spirit is dead" (Jams 2:24) and
turns back into the dust of the earth, from whence it came
(Gen 3:19; Ecc 12:7), and "knows nothing" (Ecc 9:5)

2) "The spirit goes back to God, Who Gave it" (Ecc 12:7)

3) The soul Also departs (Gen 35:18), and:

a) In OT, before The Cross Of JESUS CHRIST:

Saved went to paradise in the center of the earth
(Luk 16:19-31; Luk 23:43)

Unsaved went to "torment in the flames" [same location,
but across from "a Great Fixed gulf"] (Luk 16:19-31)
​

b) In the NT, After The Cross Of JESUS CHRIST:

Saved go to Heaven, to be "present With The LORD!"
(2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:21-23)

Unsaved still go to the same as a) above, and at The Final
Judgment, "cast into The Lake Of Fire" (Rev 20:11-15)​

Conclusion: According To The Holy Scriptures, there is no cessation after death!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[BarneyFife]

Conclusion: According To The Holy Scriptures, there is no cessation after death!

GRACE And Peace...

...And Cowardly False Reports And Slander...

Right, Precious friend?

 

[quietthinker]

...And Cowardly False Reports And Slander...

Right, Precious friend?

:)

 

[BarneyFife]

Wasn't Jesus a "know it all", of course limited only by what was not revealed by the father... who is the biggest "know it all"? ;)

His followers do emulate him.
The disciple John, for example... Not me. actually said this... "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood." 1 John 4:6

Wow. You couldn't get more "know it all" than that?
What is your opinion on that @Johann? @BarnyFife. What do you think?

Honestly, I don't really see your point, DJ.

 

[The Disciple John]

Honestly, I don't really see your point, DJ.

Oh, okay. May be a little deep, but hopefully not too deep.

Jesus knew the truth, which he got from his father.
There was no doubt in his mind that what he said was the truth. In other words, he was not uncertain, and in need of confirmation, or correction. He knew it all.
What Jesus taught meant life, and so he taught with authority, and conviction, out of love for those who would benefit if they listened.

Jesus followers are the same. They too are moved by love to teach what they were taught, with authority, and conviction, because it means life for those who listen.

This is the way of those who know the truth. They know the way. They point people to the way, because it means their life.

I was listening to @Johann, and following his conversations.
I was moved, out of love, of course, to draw attention to the above, after considering @Johann's feelings expressed in his posts.
I was thinking, 'How would I help him to appreciate that the truth, as taught in the Bible, is not compatible with theology'.

I decided to ask the question, 'Were Jesus and his followers not "know it alls"?", in order to hear your responses.
If they were, and indeed, they were, in this context, then it is expected that his followers today, would present the truth, not as individuals who don't know, but as individuals who know the truth.

I was thinking of Hebrews 12:5
And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,
“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,

Because of God's love, he disciplines us.
We don't often like discipline, but... as Paul says, No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:11

So it is a good thing when we hear things that go against what we believe, because if it shakes our faith, or breaks down that belief we thought was a fortress, causing us to see it for what it is... it may hurt, but it serves as a correction that brings benefits.
I would prefer a bruised ego to a broken neck. That's humility anyway.

I hope I helped clear things up for you Barney.

 

[Johann]

Oh, okay. May be a little deep, but hopefully not too deep.

Jesus knew the truth, which he got from his father.
There was no doubt in his mind that what he said was the truth. In other words, he was not uncertain, and in need of confirmation, or correction. He knew it all.
What Jesus taught meant life, and so he taught with authority, and conviction, out of love for those who would benefit if they listened.

Jesus followers are the same. They too are moved by love to teach what they were taught, with authority, and conviction, because it means life for those who listen.

This is the way of those who know the truth. They know the way. They point people to the way, because it means their life.

I was listening to @Johann, and following his conversations.
I was moved, out of love, of course, to draw attention to the above, after considering @Johann's feelings expressed in his posts.
I was thinking, 'How would I help him to appreciate that the truth, as taught in the Bible, is not compatible with theology'.

I decided to ask the question, 'Were Jesus and his followers not "know it alls"?", in order to hear your responses.
If they were, and indeed, they were, in this context, then it is expected that his followers today, would present the truth, not as individuals who don't know, but as individuals who know the truth.

I was thinking of Hebrews 12:5
And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,
“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,

Because of God's love, he disciplines us.
We don't often like discipline, but... as Paul says, No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:11

So it is a good thing when we hear things that go against what we believe, because if it shakes our faith, or breaks down that belief we thought was a fortress, causing us to see it for what it is... it may hurt, but it serves as a correction that brings benefits.
I would prefer a bruised ego to a broken neck. That's humility anyway.

I hope I helped clear things up for you Barney.

I really don't know why you tagged me DJ

Luk_23:9 Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.
J.

 

[The Disciple John]

I really don't know why you tagged me DJ

Luk_23:9 Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.
J.

That's good Glad to see you Hope you stay If anyone belongs here it's you rather than me

 

[Johann]

considering @Johann's feelings expressed in his posts.

Thinking in Afrikaans, typing in English...
..hence the numerous misunderstanding..
J.

 

[Johann]

That's good Glad to see you Hope you stay If anyone belongs here it's you rather than me

Now why would you say that DJ?

 

[Johann]

Wasn't Jesus a "know it all", of course limited only by what was not revealed by the father... who is the biggest "know it all"? ;)

His followers do emulate him.
The disciple John, for example... Not me. actually said this... "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood." 1 John 4:6

Wow. You couldn't get more "know it all" than that?
What is your opinion on that @Johann? @BarnyFife. What do you think?

Barney said it well. This is a virtual environment and not many "emulate" Christ Jesus in their style of life.
J.

 

[Johann]

'How would I help him to appreciate that the truth, as taught in the Bible, is not compatible with theology'.

Thanks DJ, no need for you help me appreciate the scriptures as taught in the Bible as many here have already finished the race in obtaining absolute perfection, in word, thought and deed..and expressing themselves in a lingo foreign to my ears divorcing scriptures in a happy, love all, offend none virtual environment.
J.

 

[BarneyFife]

Oh, okay. May be a little deep, but hopefully not too deep.

Jesus knew the truth, which he got from his father.
There was no doubt in his mind that what he said was the truth. In other words, he was not uncertain, and in need of confirmation, or correction. He knew it all.
What Jesus taught meant life, and so he taught with authority, and conviction, out of love for those who would benefit if they listened.

Jesus followers are the same. They too are moved by love to teach what they were taught, with authority, and conviction, because it means life for those who listen.

This is the way of those who know the truth. They know the way. They point people to the way, because it means their life.

I was listening to @Johann, and following his conversations.
I was moved, out of love, of course, to draw attention to the above, after considering @Johann's feelings expressed in his posts.
I was thinking, 'How would I help him to appreciate that the truth, as taught in the Bible, is not compatible with theology'.

I decided to ask the question, 'Were Jesus and his followers not "know it alls"?", in order to hear your responses.
If they were, and indeed, they were, in this context, then it is expected that his followers today, would present the truth, not as individuals who don't know, but as individuals who know the truth.

I was thinking of Hebrews 12:5
And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,
“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,

Because of God's love, he disciplines us.
We don't often like discipline, but... as Paul says, No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:11

So it is a good thing when we hear things that go against what we believe, because if it shakes our faith, or breaks down that belief we thought was a fortress, causing us to see it for what it is... it may hurt, but it serves as a correction that brings benefits.
I would prefer a bruised ego to a broken neck. That's humility anyway.

I hope I helped clear things up for you Barney.

It's not that I didn't understand what you said. It's not that deep. It runs along the lines that those who say they abide in Him ought themselves to walk, even as He walked and that He spake as one having authority, not like the scribes and Pharisees. That's a simple enough concept to grasp, and I've given it much thought over the years.

What I didn't understand was how it applied to the post that you quoted from me.

I find that, at least with fairly non-aggressive posters, it is not profitable to dice up everything they post and "set them straight." People who are very sensitive or uninitiated should not be given undue pressure to come to a seasoned understanding of sacred things. Too many of us are (however well-meaningly) trying to usurp the office of the Holy Ghost. It is so very easy to allow Satan to trick us into trampling on the freedom of conscience of others. It happens on this and other discussion platforms constantly.

On the other hand, I was compelled to dress down a member (which I have no authority to do) about a week ago for false reporting under the guise of benevolence (utter hypocrisy—a thing I can barely stand). I have reference to one of our very soft-spoken members, who always greets with a syrupy salutation, but often follows with thinly-veiled venom. If he were half as charitable as his profession, He would admit his fault and apologize, but he has elected to run and hide, as so many of the type are wont to do.

We should talk more. I confess that I am apprehensive about engaging too quickly with folks I can tell are going to differ widely with certain of my views. Some differences tend to have more potential for undue contention than others depending on the personality of adherents. I don't care to put up much of a defense for what I consider to be non-essentials. Right now, I'm contending with ultra-Calvinism and antinomianism in other threads, and this one has lost much of its steam. I look forward to chatting with you more, and more often. And, if I didn't already say so, a hearty welcome to you. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

That's good Glad to see you Hope you stay If anyone belongs here it's you rather than me

I didn't -like- this post because I think you don't belong here. - (lol) I try to -like- every post with which I do not categorically disagree, but I'm kind of lazy about it. I want to encourage people to participate and let them know their posts are being read and appreciated. :)

By the way, you wouldn't perhaps be a student of pre-suppositionist apologetics, would you? I couldn't help but notice your signature.

 

[BarneyFife]

Thanks DJ, no need for you help me appreciate the scriptures as taught in the Bible as many here have already finished the race in obtaining absolute perfection, in word, thought and deed..and expressing themselves in a lingo foreign to my ears divorcing scriptures in a happy, love all, offend none virtual environment.
J.

Ouch!
I think he means well, J, my brother. I guess I just like to give everyone who's not downright mean or deceitful the benefit of the doubt. Do you use Google translate at all? I can't be sure, but I think it's pretty good. Maybe not up to snuff for theology, tho. Theologians ruin everything, anyway. lol

 

[Johann]

Do you use Google translate at all?

Google translate?
Barn' this is me, Johann, the whole world can read what is typed here or is it only for Christian forums?
Why must I use Google de clook?
This is virtual communication man, I can't see you and you can't see me..know what I mean?

 

[Brakelite]

That's why I say that sometimes I don't know if I belong here.

You've put me straight more than once in areas none else recognized, or at least were perhaps willing to address. I appreciate you and for that reason alone at the very least, tells me you belong here.