Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.
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Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
No, we know enough of the circumstances as to why God took him out of that situation. You just need to read carefully.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
The issue, David, is confirmation bias. It’s a clear example of people approaching the Word with preconceived, and often false beliefs, and then attempting to force those notions onto the text rather than allowing Scripture to speak for itself.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@David in NJ
Let me give you an example.
Enoch's life and death is presented no differently to all the other faithful:
Genesis 5:23 – “Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years
His life had a start and a finish.
Let me give you an example.
Enoch's life and death is presented no differently to all the other faithful:
Genesis 5:23 – “Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years
His life had a start and a finish.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
We KNOW that Enoch was not taken to Heaven.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@David in NJ
“He was no more” literally means “he was not” that is, he simply ceased to exist. He was “not found” (Heb 11:5), indicating removal from the scene rather than continued visible existence.
“He was no more” literally means “he was not” that is, he simply ceased to exist. He was “not found” (Heb 11:5), indicating removal from the scene rather than continued visible existence.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Please elaborate on "he simply ceased to exist"
There is more to the Story yet to be revealed.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
The Hebrew simply conveys this: Enoch was alive one moment, and then he was not. His life came to an end after 365 years. I liken this to Moses, who was buried by the Angel of the LORD (assumed), his end concealed from human sight. Nevertheless, there are clear spiritual lessons in the statement that Enoch did not “see” or experience death, lessons that go beyond the mere record of his lifespan. It is what he represents which finds its importance.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This i understand..........AND..........it is very much so similiar to Moses but not exactly.
Put Moses aside and please explain your statement: "he simply ceased to exist"
a.) Enoch is not alive today
b.) Enoch does not exist today
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@David in NJ
A careful reading of Scripture strongly supports the conclusion that Enoch did, in fact, die, yet in a manner distinct from his contemporaries. Hebrews 11:5 must be read in harmony with the broader biblical testimony, not isolated from it. Hebrews 11:13 explicitly states, “These all died in faith,” (which @Hillsage posted correctly) and Enoch is clearly included among that company. Moreover, Paul affirms that death reigned from Adam to Moses (Rom 5:14), a period that unquestionably encompasses Enoch. To suggest an exception here would undermine the universality of Adamic death affirmed elsewhere: “In Adam all die” (1 Cor 15:22).
Equally decisive is Christ’s own declaration: “No man has ascended into heaven” (John 3:13). Any interpretation of Genesis 5:24 or Hebrews 11:5 that implies Enoch’s bodily translation to heaven contradicts the explicit teaching of Jesus himself.
What, then, does it mean that Enoch “was not, for God took him,” and that he “did not see death”? The language does not require immortality or heavenly ascension. The Greek metatithēmi (“translated”) does not mean glorified or immortalised; it means removed, transferred, or changed in condition or situation, as the same word is used in Hebrews 7:12 and Colossians 1:13. Enoch was taken from one state of life to another, not from earth to heaven.
To “not see death” does not necessitate exemption from death itself, but exemption from the experience of death in its terror, decay, or violence. Scripture uses similar language elsewhere: Moses is said to die “by the mouth of the LORD,” in full vigour, spared the humiliations of disease and decline (Deut 34:5–7). In this sense, Enoch was mercifully removed, put to rest by God before witnessing the full horror of the ungodliness he so boldly condemned (Jude 14–15). He did not experience death as others did, though he still passed into it.
That Enoch “could not be found” suggests a deliberate divine removal, not an immortal escape. His disappearance caused astonishment, search, and speculation, precisely the language Hebrews employs. Yet Scripture refuses to indulge curiosity beyond what is revealed. As Deuteronomy 29:29 reminds us, “The secret things belong to the LORD our God.”
Enoch therefore stands as a powerful type, not an exception to resurrection doctrine. Abel typifies faithful sacrifice unto death; Enoch typifies divine deliverance and reward. Both await resurrection. Enoch’s “translation” anticipates the greater translation spoken of in Colossians 1:13 being transferred from the dominion of sin and death into God’s righteous kingdom. His hope, like Abraham’s and David’s, rests not in escaping death, but in resurrection.
Thus Enoch does not weaken the biblical doctrine of death and resurrection he strengthens it. He teaches that faith may lead either through suffering or through deliverance, but never around resurrection. The promise was not fulfilled in his lifetime, but like all the faithful, he “died in faith,” awaiting the day when God’s purpose with man will finally be revealed.
Further evidence confirms that such a view is impossible. At the time of Enoch, no one could pass into heaven, for the way had not yet been opened. The veil, symbolic of Christ’s flesh had not been torn (Heb 10:19–20). To suggest that Enoch entered heaven would therefore require him to be sinless, or to have received an atonement apart from Christ, both of which would be utter blasphemy against the Word of God and against Christ himself. Salvation and access to God are found in Christ alone, and in no other way.
A careful reading of Scripture strongly supports the conclusion that Enoch did, in fact, die, yet in a manner distinct from his contemporaries. Hebrews 11:5 must be read in harmony with the broader biblical testimony, not isolated from it. Hebrews 11:13 explicitly states, “These all died in faith,” (which @Hillsage posted correctly) and Enoch is clearly included among that company. Moreover, Paul affirms that death reigned from Adam to Moses (Rom 5:14), a period that unquestionably encompasses Enoch. To suggest an exception here would undermine the universality of Adamic death affirmed elsewhere: “In Adam all die” (1 Cor 15:22).
Equally decisive is Christ’s own declaration: “No man has ascended into heaven” (John 3:13). Any interpretation of Genesis 5:24 or Hebrews 11:5 that implies Enoch’s bodily translation to heaven contradicts the explicit teaching of Jesus himself.
What, then, does it mean that Enoch “was not, for God took him,” and that he “did not see death”? The language does not require immortality or heavenly ascension. The Greek metatithēmi (“translated”) does not mean glorified or immortalised; it means removed, transferred, or changed in condition or situation, as the same word is used in Hebrews 7:12 and Colossians 1:13. Enoch was taken from one state of life to another, not from earth to heaven.
To “not see death” does not necessitate exemption from death itself, but exemption from the experience of death in its terror, decay, or violence. Scripture uses similar language elsewhere: Moses is said to die “by the mouth of the LORD,” in full vigour, spared the humiliations of disease and decline (Deut 34:5–7). In this sense, Enoch was mercifully removed, put to rest by God before witnessing the full horror of the ungodliness he so boldly condemned (Jude 14–15). He did not experience death as others did, though he still passed into it.
That Enoch “could not be found” suggests a deliberate divine removal, not an immortal escape. His disappearance caused astonishment, search, and speculation, precisely the language Hebrews employs. Yet Scripture refuses to indulge curiosity beyond what is revealed. As Deuteronomy 29:29 reminds us, “The secret things belong to the LORD our God.”
Enoch therefore stands as a powerful type, not an exception to resurrection doctrine. Abel typifies faithful sacrifice unto death; Enoch typifies divine deliverance and reward. Both await resurrection. Enoch’s “translation” anticipates the greater translation spoken of in Colossians 1:13 being transferred from the dominion of sin and death into God’s righteous kingdom. His hope, like Abraham’s and David’s, rests not in escaping death, but in resurrection.
Thus Enoch does not weaken the biblical doctrine of death and resurrection he strengthens it. He teaches that faith may lead either through suffering or through deliverance, but never around resurrection. The promise was not fulfilled in his lifetime, but like all the faithful, he “died in faith,” awaiting the day when God’s purpose with man will finally be revealed.
Further evidence confirms that such a view is impossible. At the time of Enoch, no one could pass into heaven, for the way had not yet been opened. The veil, symbolic of Christ’s flesh had not been torn (Heb 10:19–20). To suggest that Enoch entered heaven would therefore require him to be sinless, or to have received an atonement apart from Christ, both of which would be utter blasphemy against the Word of God and against Christ himself. Salvation and access to God are found in Christ alone, and in no other way.
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Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Enoch exists solely in the Mind of God, which highlights the wonder and power of the resurrection. God is mighty enough to reshape the dust, restore every thought, and cause him to stand alive on that day!
As Job said “Behold, my Redeemer lives!” (Job 19:25).
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
JESUS Says otherwise!!! = Matt 22:23-33
Enoch is ALIVE Today but not in his flesh body.
@Hillsage
ALWAYS trust JESUS
The following is an example of the pattern throughout Genesis 5, the focus, this phrase--and he died.
Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
Genesis 5:8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
Genesis 5:11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
Genesis 5:14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
Genesis 5:17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
Genesis 5:20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
Genesis 5:27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
Genesis 5:31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
Genesis 9:29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.
But look what is missing concerning the account pertaining to Enoch.
Genesis 5:21 ¶And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
This is missing---and he died. No wonder Hebrews 11:5 records what it does. It's because it agrees with the Genesis 5 account pertaining to Enoch. Why then are some of you trying to pit these 2 accounts against each other rather than having them agree with each other?
One thing to keep in mind. We are never told where God translated Enoch to. Therefore, he may have been translated to some place other than heaven, for all we know?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Interesting that you were thinking the same thing I was at the time. Can't be a coincidence.
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