I can not really argue for birth control ... But I also believe God accounted for it ... So In some ways I think it a mute point God only created so many souls their is a certain number each was counted We are appointed once to die (be born flesh) God has a timetable he knew birth control would be praticed yet he will still carry out the same timtable. There is an intersting teaching in Judism on this its called the Guff... the guff holds all souls appointent to be born when its empty the End comes ..Though we do not have this exact teaching ..We do have scripture that could very well be taken to tell the same story. That is that there are fixed number of souls /We are apponited once to die.
LIfe When Does It Begin?
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I'm sure that God has "accounted" for everything, but that doesn't mean we don't do anything, or just do anything and it is OK. We should live fruitful, righteous lives and obey all the Commandments and comply with all the teachings. As such we need to Be Fruitful and Multiply as we should, and understand that birth control is no part of that. There are lots of Scripture that back this up, especially Genesis 38.1 and forward
You make it sound as if the only reason a couple is allowed to have intercourse is to have a child. I don’t know if you are married or not Founder, nor do I know how many children you have. I do know it wasn’t God that told you to teach against Christians practicing birth control.
Baffled and bewilderedI am no doubt.To follow Him is a choiceSo 'genocide' is out.And God's gift of the planetIs horribly stressed.The problem of human numberMust need be addressed.I'm not dragging intoEndless debateOf ages of earthOr translation and fate.The point of this topicIs veering and stray.May I suggest a new topicIf it keeps sliding away?
No we are not opening a new topic and this is on topic because you may not want to dicuss the entire subject ..then I guess you will have to chose not to read those parts .... Sense Founder is calling birth control genocide ...how would you explain killing what does not exist yet genocide ..... So the fact you do not see that he is saying life begins before there is even a conception ...then that puts us talking about the soul/spirit .......... So we are right on topic ..
I have not said one single word you have said I have said, and I think you know what that makes you. I don't mind defending exactly what I say, but I will not have words put in my mouth and then be blamed for uttering words that I never spoke. So, if you don't even know what I have said, how could you know whether God spoke it to me?
Not to speak for anybody cause I won't. The matter of fact is not all beliefs are of God. The problem is, every single person I seen so far, whether it contradicts the Bible or not... everybody will say God says this or God says that. In fact they always have to say God... because they think they are right...Now when you yourself (speaking in general) speaking to somebody else, you will say {{{Insert name}}} says this or {{{Insert name}}} says that. Why is this? It's because you yourself (speaking in general and not to you personally) believe "I am" right all the time.When I find many people with many different beliefs and say they are of God... Can God create confusion and lies? No, He can not. Then why do people says this... Either A. Pride or B. They were taught what to believeThat is how I see things, therefore Amos 8:11-12 is been proven over and over quite true.
Bummer! But thanks so I don't have to go crazy looking for the switch. That just means I'll have to construct my own Siggie to balance the scale. Well, you can't have everything in life, and it is nice to be around Christians, even if you don't always agree with them. But, (and there is always a BUT) it seems from reading the Bible that the Christians in both new and old testaments were always arguing. The propensity of the human to consistently get it wrong is amazing. First there are those who are wrong, OK, we can understand that, then there are the ones who correct them, and we can understand that. So far so good. But, then the ones who corrected those who were wrong, themselves fell into the ditch and become as wrong, if not more wrong, than the ones they originally corrected, and so on and so forth, over and over. It is a wonder God does not kill all of us as we richly deserve. I think I would do just that, were I He. Instead, there are the comforts of the Hell that he has prepared for those too stiff-necked to repent, and that includes just about everyone as I figure it. Amen.
"If you do not wishTo see what ariseBefore you todayThen close your eyes".Rather not but still,The advice I do note.Forgive me to clarifyWhat I have wrote.This topic I've seenCome up much beforeAnd enter the cycleThat will deeply boreLike a drill in a spiralA very deep holeOf 'Does to does not'On the unborn soul.If sperm and eggAre alive? Oh yes.But the unmade babe,Has it a soul? Tricky mess.Preventing the fusionOf cells to make childBeing a murder or not?The debate runs wild.Either you think that it isOr you think it is not.10 thousand posts laterThe debate starts to rot.I suggest a new topicOf more productive ministration;Changing mind through post tagBecomes a vexation.I think that it's not(may I humbly suggest)The death of a babyTo avoid, not arrest.To remove the formationOf child from wombIs certainly leavingLittle debate room.I end here my addition,Add no further say.I've worn out my welcomeSo I'm walking away.See you in topicsWhich yet aboundWith interest and idea,And sharpness not abound.In correction of postfound just beforeAn error (repetition)Leaves my poetics quite sore.Final line, final wordI amend as I note'Around' not 'Abound'Was meant to be wrote.
Add to the question: When does life begin? The question: When does it end? And the question: How should we live it? So that is three fundamental and basic questions that we must ask the Bible. I have addressed when it begins, but when does it end? My reading of the Bible indicates that it never ends. It moves from God's hand along the road to conception and birth, or as Huey Long, the Governor of Louisiana, was fond of saying, "Man is conceived in sin, and born in corruption." Thus the child is in a state of sin, even prior to conception, sin that is only forgiven through the atonement of our Savior, Jesus, The Christ. John 3:16 states that "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son..."Likely, God's forgiveness will extend to children who are below the age of accountability, though that is up to God, who will save who He will, and we do know that he does not view all children the same, OR as equally good. In fact God, while not a respecter of persons, meaning, He does not accept any of the approvals or disapprovals of this world, or its honors or condemnations, yet He IS a respecter of His own separate views and evaluations of each person. In Christ, there may be no man or woman, Jew or Greek, but there is surely also no equality in terms of righteousness. There is every indication that God in no way believes in the sort of "equality" that is preached in the gospels of this world, gospels that I like to call, the gospel according to Hillary. Just as life does not begin at conception, life does not end at death, but goes on to everlasting hell or everlasting heaven, take your pick. And that destination depends on HOW you have lived your life. Not by works alone but by Faith AND Works, the quality of which will determine where you spend eternity, either in flaming, burning Hell, or cool and comfortable heaven.
WhiteKnuckle
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Where does life begin? Anyone ever make tea? When does the water become tea? As soon as you put the bag in or when the water turns color? Tea is tea as soon as the bag is in. If you take the bag out too early it becomes weak tea. Even on the very molecular structure the water has tea in it and constitutes being called tea. You may not taste it you may not see it, but chemicaly it's tea.Birth control? As if "Killing" the egg or "Killing" the sperm is a sin. If that's the case then that explains why our flesh is sinful. The argument for birthcontrol I believe was an argument based out of 2 things. The first thing is ignorance on how the human body works. The second one is a misconstrued verse in the OT.I don't remember who, but God commanded a man to impregnate a woman, (I think it was King David, I'm not sure) But he spilled his sead on the ground and God wasn't happy. The early church namely the Catholics thought that destroying your seed was sinful. But, it was the act that this man didn't get her pregnant was the sin. If a woman doesn't get pregnant then she has her period, in which eggs are dispelled and new ones replace it. If a man doesn't (edited) then it's all absorbed into the body.It's funny to think that people still think that it all stays there floating around immortal in our bodies.So my guess is, as soon as an egg is fertilized it's a life. Whether it goes farther is up to our Lord.Founder said
Is this your opinion?I'm a bastard child, given up for adoption. My mother got me back, then spent the rest of her life trying to give me away or abusing me. Until she moved out when I was asleep when I was 17. I'm also a dropout. I had some struggles with my life including a decade long alcohol abuse. But, now at 32,,,, I'm married for 14 years with 2 very cool and great kids. I have most of the monetary sucesses(not rich but comfortable by my standards). I even have very close friends. ALL OF THIS THE LORD HAS BLESSED ME WITH! You can't turn statistics against someone who is under the watch of Jesus Christ.
I remember the person, Onan spilled his brother's seed. He had refused to do so after his brother died. It was not king David. WhiteKnuckle that last paragraph on your post is definately painful to me, but I still feel very sad that actually happened to you, but I am glad that the Lord has blessed you with a wonderful wife who supported you and 2 children you have.
WhiteKnuckle
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No need to be sad. The Lord has made everything work for the good. My life is richer for it. If nothing like what's ever happened in my life happened then how could I relate to someone who it has happened to? So, the Lord has given me a way to help those who are hurting and made me wise as to what a family is and how it should be, and how it would be with out Him. Another thing it gives me greater appreciation and loyalty to Jesus because he would never do those things.I remember the person, Onan spilled his brother's seed. He had refused to do so after his brother died. It was not king David. WhiteKnuckle that last paragraph on your post is definately painful to me, but I still feel very sad that actually happened to you, but I am glad that the Lord has blessed you with a wonderful wife who supported you and 2 children you have.
I agree with Christina - how can you kill that which dosn't exist? Maybe we as christians need to re-think how many children we should and could be having and keeping up more (with the muslims) but I don't think doing away with birth control is the answer. Many people use birth control to put off having children till a bit later when they are more prepared and can cope better. Birth control has no doubt saved many a womans life (and sanity!)
Clearly none of you even know what I am talking about, or have any understand of what I am trying to communicate. I understand you, and what you all say, to the extent there is something being said by you. It is too bad that you don't even understand, much less agree with, what I am saying. Thus, my answer will just deal with about the only thing I could make any sense out of, and that was the tea bag story as it seems to be your best shot. Here is how I see the tea bag story: The point of your tea bag story was that if a person has a tea bag, and the hot water, and the cup, and the person wanting tea, that still and all, you still do not have tea in any way, until the tea bag is actually dropped into the boiling water and allowed to steep for an appreciable time. Then, maybe, you have tea. WELL, I STRONGLY DISAGREE! The fact is, you have tea long before this moment you outline. I, and God, say, you have tea when the conditions and circumstances allow for tea to be made, that you have tea even back when the tea bag was made, and when the tea was grown, and you have tea when someone wants some tea, and you have tea when the water is boiling, and you have tea when the bag is dropped in, and you have tea when it is steeped, and you have tea again when it is cooling, and when lemon or milk is added to taste, and when sugar is added to taste, and when it is raised to your lips you have tea, and when you drink the first sip, and when you drink half of the cup, and when you drink the remainder of the cup, and yes, when there is just a drop remaining in the bottom of the cup you have tea, and you have tea when you pour some more hot water over the used bag again for a second cup, and when you go get another bag the next day, you also have tea, and when you make another cup, and so on, and so on. So you have tea all the way along the line from the beginning of tea to when tea is no more, even all the way back to the time that the first tea was grown thousands of years ago, and on into the future as far a the drinking of tea continues. All that time you have tea. And if someone who hates you knocks the tea cup from your hand before you can drop the bag in and flushes the bag down the toilet that your tea was destroyed even though technically the bag never got dropped into the water. And that your tea that never got to be steeped was destroyed just as effectively as if the tea cup full of steeped tea was knocked out of your hand. It makes no difference when the tea was interrupted whether it was before the bag was dropped or after the bag was steeped, YOUR TEA WAS JUST AS DESTROYED AT ONE POINT AS THE OTHER. So you see, in summary, it is clear that I see tea quite differently than you folks who cannot see any tea any farther back or forward than the steeped tea before you in the cup. By contrast, I, and God, see the larger picture of tea, while you only see the very small picture of tea, the very narrow picture of tea, the very reduced vision of tea that is far smaller than the tea that God sees all the time, and that I, at least, once in a while have some glimpse of.We, you and I, have different eyes, and a completely different understanding of the existence of tea, and when tea actually begins, never mind the life of a child, and when it begins, and do you know why? I'll tell you why we see both tea and children so radically differently: It is because we personally are motivated by completely different visions of God's will. I see God as wanting the children whose lives I am trying to convince you to help me protect, while you see yourselves accused by me of taking those lives without repentance, and are desperate to protect your lack of repentance. Go ahead, be my guest, and convince yourselves that taking the lives that is God's reward is not wrong, and against His will, and then for reassurance, convince each other as well, but you will never convince me or, I might add, persuade God. After all He is the boss, and the boss is always right. Right? I simply want very much to be on God's side, and am not looking all the time for loopholes to evade his laws and commandments. I feel your arguments are all about you trying to prove your own innocence of wrong doing. And there we differ also. I freely admit I have been guilty of taking innocent life with birth control, and admit I am a sinner and a wrong doer, and ask for forgiveness and mercy. I admit I have taken innocent life by using the murderous means of birth control, while you deny, and deny, and deny. And that is all our difference is about.
Cat got everyone's tongue? You are very active in presenting very poor arguments against my case, but when I respect you by replying in detail, all of a sudden you all lose your motivation to debate. You don't like tough debate, just softballs?
What strikes me strange is that if scientist were able to show that microbes or such were currently living on another planet, the headlines would be "Life Found on Other Planet."But here on earth, until it travels down the birth canal, there are many who do not consider it life.
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