list these events in sequence order

[Douggg]

Do you know who Fransisco Ribera is? Do you know what his objective was and why? You can do an internet search and come up with plenty of information on him. It might help you understand where and why your theology was developed.

Actually I have heard what you are saying about a million times. It is a go-to reaction of those who think the pope/papacy is the Antichrist, when faced with bible proof of why neither the pope nor papacy can be the Antichrist.

As a side note - not anyone who uses that go-to-reaction is able to provide the actual (translated into English) written teachings by Ribera himself for someone to read his work.

Copy and paste something from Ribera's own writings about the Antichrist, that has been translated into English. Not hearsay.

Show something from Ribera that the Antichrist will be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah.

Or something from Ribera that the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years cycle in Deuteronomy 31:9-13

Or from Ribera that the person will no longer be the Antichrist when he is revealed to be the man of sin.

Or just forget about it.... because very few futurists have ever read anything from Ribera's own writings (translated into English). My eshcatology does not come from Ribera. I have never read Ribera. I am not a student of Ribera.

 

[quietthinker]

Actually I have heard what you are saying about a million times. It is a go-to reaction of those who think the pope/papacy is the Antichrist, when faced with bible proof of why neither the pope nor papacy can be the Antichrist.

As a side note - not anyone who uses that go-to-reaction is able to provide the actual (translated into English) written teachings by Ribera himself for someone to read his work.

Copy and paste something from Ribera's own writings about the Antichrist, that has been translated into English. Not hearsay.

Show something from Ribera that the Antichrist will be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah.

Or from Ribera that the person will no longer be the Antichrist when he is revealed to be the man of sin.

Or just forget about it.... because very few futurists have ever read anything from Ribera's own writings (translated into English). My eshcatology does not come from Ribera. I have never read Ribera. I am not a student of Ribera.

Knowing thine enemy is wise. Not knowing him, well, you can guess.

 

[Douggg]

Knowing thine enemy is wise. Not knowing him, well, you can guess.

If you are talking about Ribera, what I have ask of you about Ribera's writings (translated into English), I have asked countless times to others who have made that same go-to reaction.

Try this one - find something from Ribera that says the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years cycle in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

That the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years cycle in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 - is a major part of my eschatology.

 

[quietthinker]

That the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years cycle in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 - is a major part of my eschatology.

I understand this is major for you and I would also say this, the 70 week prophecy where you break off the final week is purely arbitrary. The context does not do this, it is a continuum. You have formulated a monolithic theology around this arbitrary interpretation which in my view makes all your connections awry.

 

[Douggg]

I understand this is major for you and I would also say this, the 70 week prophecy where you break off the final week is purely arbitrary. The context does not do this, it is a continuum. You have formulated a monolithic theology around this arbitrary interpretation which in my view makes all your connections awry.

To prove my eschatology position , Ezekiel 39 contains that 70th week, as Jesus's Second Coming is in Ezekiel 39:21-29. Jesus Himself is speaking in those verses, recollecting all that had taken place over the past 2000 years regarding the Jews and their rejection of Him.

But finally turning to him during the great tribulation, the last 1335 days of the 7 years in verses 9-10, following the Gog/Magog event.

All of the end times event time frames fit within that 7 years following the Gog/Magog event.

 

[Douggg]

I understand this is major for you and I would also say this, the 70 week prophecy where you break off the final week is purely arbitrary. The context does not do this, it is a continuum. You have formulated a monolithic theology around this arbitrary interpretation which in my view makes all your connections awry.

Is there a gap between Jesus's first coming and Jesus's second coming ?

 

[quietthinker]

To prove my eschatology position , Ezekiel 39 contains that 70th week, as Jesus's Second Coming is in Ezekiel 39:21-29. Jesus Himself is speaking in those verses, recollecting all that had taken place over the past 2000 years regarding the Jews and their rejection of Him.

But finally turning to him during the great tribulation, the last 1335 days of the 7 years in verses 9-10, following the Gog/Magog event.

All of the end times event time frames fit within that 7 years following the Gog/Magog event.

Sorry Douggg, this is eisegesis not exegesis. The 70 weeks are a continuum. Try to justify that it is not is being intellectually dishonest

 

[Douggg]

Sorry Douggg, this is eisegesis not exegesis. The 70 weeks are a continuum. Try to justify that it is not is being intellectually dishonest
View attachment 43456

quietthiinker, no, there are 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9-10. Following the latter day, latter years, Gog/Magog event.

Your chart is eisegesis because it is based on artificially inserting the ministry time of messiah - in order to misrepresent the messiah cut off after 69 1/2 weeks.

The length of the messiah ministry is never mentioned in Daniel 9. His arrival is after 62 weeks (plus 7 weeks) and his being cutoff is after 62 weeks (plus 7 weeks).

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15 hailed as the King of Israel, riding a donkey to fulfill what is says in Zechariah 9:9.

12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

Four days later, Jesus was crucified, cut off, but not for Himself. Then, on the third day rose back to life.

---------------
Other eisegesis artificially inserted timeframe on your chart is the 3 1/2 year span to the stoning of Stephen. The stoning of Stephen, as awful as it was, cannot rationally be construed as the completion of the things listed in Daniel 9:24. The things in Daniel 9:24 conclude with Jesus's return, an event of unequaled magnitude - which is in Ezekiel 39:21-29, seven years after the Gog/Magog event.

Other proof that the information on your chart is wrong and that the 7 years are still fulfilled is that a number of end times prophecies require the full 70th week in order to fit into. i.e. the 2300 days of Daniel 8:13-14, time of the end activities by the little horn. And the time of the end abomination of desolation, 1290 days and 1335 days, in Daniel 12:11-12.

btw, although the chart you posted is wrong, charts are very helpful in communicating what one believes. So thanks for providing it.

I try to emphasize the positive.

 

[Douggg]

@quietthinker regarding Ribera's commentary - if it were so essential to the futurist eshcatology view - one would think that there would be tons of Catholics here in the forum touting Ribera's commentary - but there are none.

 

[Truth7t7]

Do you know who Fransisco Ribera is? Do you know what his objective was and why? You can do an internet search and come up with plenty of information on him. It might help you understand where and why your theology was developed.

I don't follow Ribera as you suggest, if you have a point argue it with scripture, waiting?

1.) The Antichrist Is Revealed In Jerusalem Proclaiming To Be God On Earth

2.) The Great Tribulation For 3.5 Years, As The (Two Witnesses) Bring All Plagues Upon The Unsealed Wicked World

3.) Nations Gathered In Israel Armageddon, Jesus Returns In Fire And Final Judgement (The End)

 

[quietthinker]

Other eisegesis artificially inserted timeframe on your chart is the 3 1/2 year span to the stoning of Stephen. The stoning of Stephen, as awful as it was, cannot rationally be construed as the completion of the things listed in Daniel 9:24. The things in Daniel 9:24 conclude with Jesus's return, an event of unequaled magnitude - which is in Ezekiel 39:21-29, seven years after the Gog/Magog event.

The Gospel initially went to only the Jews. The stoning of Stephan marked a significant change. From there on in the Gospel went to the Gentiles. This development is appropriate according to the prophecy 'seventy weeks are determined upon your people. Daniels prayer gets a quick response....he has laid out for him the future of the nation of Israel re their status as a specially chosen people. Their time for this privilege is determined by their rejection of their long awaited Messiah and the following message of its meaning.
In this flow of events foretold I have inserted nothing as per your claim.

 

[Duck Muscles]

Please list in sequence order these events. Beginning with the first to the last. I have placed them in order as I believe correct.

the Ezekiel 38-39 Gog/Magog event
the great tribulation
the Armageddon event
the Second Coming of Jesus
the 1000 year millennium
Satan's short period to once again deceive the nations

It's strange that God would release Satan from Hell so he can deceive and destroy again.

 

[quietthinker]

It's strange that God would release Satan from Hell so he can deceive and destroy again.

yes, it is odd in the context of popular theology and it begs the question whether this theology requires a closer look.

 

[quietthinker]

I don't follow Ribera as you suggest, if you have a point argue it with scripture, waiting?

1.) The Antichrist Is Revealed In Jerusalem Proclaiming To Be God On Earth

2.) The Great Tribulation For 3.5 Years, As The (Two Witnesses) Bring All Plagues Upon The Unsealed Wicked World

3.) Nations Gathered In Israel Armageddon, Jesus Returns In Fire And Final Judgement (The End)

I have not suggested you know Ribera, I have asked whether you know him and what he taught and why

 

[TribulationSigns]

I have placed them in order as I believe correct.

Yours is not correct. Here is basic biblical sequence, without the seal, trumpets, and vials, etc. for later.

1.) The Old Testament congregation of Israel ended when Christ went to the Cross.
2.) The temple has fallen (representing Israel).
3.) Satan has been bound and cast into the bottomless pit (To restrain him from deceiving the Gentiles so people can be saved when hear the gospel)
2.) Also at His Death with the blood on the cross, Christ confirmed a covenant.
3.) On the third day, Christ resurrected and rebuilt the temple that had fallen. (representing Church)
4.) Christ empowered his believers (Two Witnesses) with the Holy Spirit.
5.) Christians began going into the world with the Gospel for 1,260 days (symbolically). This is Millennial Kingdom.
6.) After all Elect has been secured by the Gospel, Two Witnesses' testimony is finished and Satan is loosened.
7.) Satan is revealed through the false prophets and Christs (man of sin) in the church (temple)
7.) Two Witnesses were killed (Gospel silenced) and lying dead in the city (Church) for three and half days (symbolically).
8.) After three and half days, the Spirit of Life came upon Two Witnesses and made them stand up and prophesy that Judgment had come.
9.) On 1,290th Day, the judgment of the whore began for symbolically 1 hour.
10.) Two Witnesses flee from the apostate church.
11.) On 1,335th day, the last trump sounds, Christ returns, and Elect gather together in the air.
12.) The judgment of the world has begun.
13.) Satan and all the people not found in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire forever.
14.) New Earth and New Heaven begin with Christ and his Bride.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus does not return, and then the kings of the earth begin assembling their armies at Armageddon.

I already stated that fact to you: "The enemy arrives at Arm before Jesus does but that isn't the Arm event."

 

[Truth7t7]

I have not suggested you know Ribera, I have asked whether you know him and what he taught and why

I'm fully aware of Ribera the Roman Catholic Jesuit, and his teachings during the counter reformation, same applies to preterism and the Roman Catholic Jesuit Luis Alcasar

Dispensationalism follows Ribera

Preterist reformed theology follows Alcasar in 70AD fulfillment

 

[Douggg]

The Gospel initially went to only the Jews. The stoning of Stephan marked a significant change. From there on in the Gospel went to the Gentiles.

Not exclusively to the Gentiles. The Gospel has been preached to the whole world including the Jews for the past 2000 years.

In this flow of events foretold I have inserted nothing as per your claim.

The length of the messiah's ministry (the first 3 12 years on your chart) is not mentioned in the text of Daniel 9. The stoning of Stephen is not mentioned, nor suggested, in the text of Daniel 9. Nor exclusive preaching of the Gospel to Gentiles.


The 70th week is still unfilled as to seal up the vision and prophecy in Daniel 9:24, it takes the full 7 years to fit the 2300 day vision and prophecy about the little horn. Daniel 8:13-14.


24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Douggg]

I already stated that fact to you: "The enemy arrives at Arm before Jesus does but that isn't the Arm event."

The Armageddon event begins with the gathering of the kings of the earth at Armageddon. And concludes in Revelation 19:19-21.

This is what you had... the conclusion of the Armageddon event before the beginning of the Armageddon event

1. the great tribulation
2. the Second Coming of Jesus
3. the Armageddon event
4. the 1000 year millennium
5. Satan's short period to once again deceive the nations

...just swap 2 and 3 around in your list. Place the beginning of the Armageddon event before the conclusion of the Armageddon event. So that....

1. the great tribulation
2. the Armageddon event
3. the Second Coming of Jesus
4. the 1000 year millennium
5. Satan's short period to once again deceive the nations

 

[Duck Muscles]

yes, it is odd in the context of popular theology and it begs the question whether this theology requires a closer look.

What are your thoughts on that regard?