Love Me?—Love Me Not!

[Netchaplain]

One may have an appearance to obey the Lord Jesus (Jhn 14:23, 24), but it is the test of time that will determine its genuineness, for it will never cease. The Lord Jesus said, “He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved” (Mat 24:13). In other words, only whosoever is saved will endure unto the end, as those who are not reborn (saved) will eventually affirm “they were not of us” (1Jo 2:19; 2Ti 3:9, 13; Heb 10:39; also Num 32:23).

The primary manifestation of hypocritical love to God is the absence of love to others (Jhn 13:35)—especially when this concerns our “brother,” which are those within “the household of faith” (Gal 6:10; Eph 2:19; 1Jhn 4:20, 21; also Mat 12:50). Walking in practical love develops from first having the desire to love, which is an inherent ability solely from the Spirit at rebirth (Gal 5:22), using the implanted “life” and “nature” of Christ (Col 3:4, 10; 2Pe 1:4).

It is the ongoing desire to love others that manifests the presence of the indwelling Spirit the most, and as this desire grows within we eventually begin practicing more all the time God’s love to others (again and very important, esp. when it concerns the saved). I believe the well-known acronym JOY describes Scripture’s definition for God’s love best: Jesus, others, then you, i.e. we put Jesus first when we put others before us. This is clearly demonstrated by passages such as Phl 2:3, 4; Ro 12:10; Eph 4:2; 5:21. I’ve found that being concerned how we should respond to others more than being concerned how others respond to us aids well in supporting a more consistent adherence to these truths.

Since the works deriving from walking in the Spirit cannot be practiced one-hundred percent of the time (due to the ongoing indwelling of the “old man”), I believe God’s greatest work in us rests in the retaining of this desire to love (which produces continued growth in it), which then is in us—the crux of His “work” (Phl 2:13). May God give us to remember to keep a constant check on the intentions of our actions, that we may, more all the time, be love-centered; without which our testimony cannot be God-glorifying (Jhn 15:8). God be blessed above all!

 

[Helen]

Very good indeed :)

 

[Netchaplain]

Very good indeed :)

Thanks Sis for your encouraging comment, and God bless!

 

[DNB]

Very good insights NC, ...but, in my opinion, there are some either contradictory or confusing principles that you set forth?

The Lord Jesus said, “He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved” (Mat 24:13). In other words, only whosoever is saved will endure unto the end, as those who are not reborn (saved) will eventually affirm “they were not of us” (1Jo 2:19; 2Ti 3:9, 13; Heb 10:39; also Num 32:23).

This, you reversed what Christ said. The correct understanding is, as Christ said, endurance is required for salvation. This is important because there is a whole theology based around this principle (Arminianism). Whereas, you claimed that Christ said 'Only the saved will endure'. Whether you're right or wrong in general, you definitely falsified Jesus' statement.

Walking in practical love develops from first having the desire to love, which is an inherent ability solely from the Spirit at rebirth (Gal 5:22), using the implanted “life” and “nature” of Christ (Col 3:4, 10; 2Pe 1:4).

Are you saying that only Christians have the ability to love? Buddhists don't love their families, or each other? Same with atheists, Hindus & Muslims? Try saying that to either a Jewish or Muslim father or mother, that they don't love each other, or their children, or God.

It is the ongoing desire to love others that manifests the presence of the indwelling Spirit the most, and as this desire grows within we eventually begin practicing more all the time God’s love to others. ...Since the works deriving from walking in the Spirit cannot be practiced one-hundred percent of the time (due to the ongoing indwelling of the “old man”), I believe God’s greatest work in us rests in the retaining of this desire to love (which produces continued growth in it), which then is in us—the crux of His “work” (Phl 2:13). May God give us to remember to keep a constant check on the intentions of our actions, that we may, more all the time, be love-centered; without which our testimony cannot be God-glorifying (Jhn 15:8). God be blessed above all!

At one minute you're saying only the indwelling Spirit, that we received through faith in Christ, can give us the ability to love. But then, you make it sound that we need to practice in order to make it grow, or that we take over at some point? Which is it, a man's a cold monster until he accepts Christ, and then God bestows a heart of flesh within him? Or, that man has the ability to set his desires straight, and this, to the extent that he places the effort?

Beautiful insights all the same, but, I'm sorry, confusing and debilitating logistics in how to attain the goal of love.
Man was created in the image of God, therefore, love is innate within us, whether we employ it or not. And the activation of it depends on the individual person, both in degree and direction.
We never lost the image of God.
Genesis 9:6. "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.

You're Reformed, aren't you?

 

[Netchaplain]

This, you reversed what Christ said. The correct understanding is, as Christ said, endurance is required for salvation. This is important because there is a whole theology based around this principle (Arminianism). Whereas, you claimed that Christ said 'Only the saved will endure'. Whether you're right or wrong in general, you definitely falsified Jesus' statement.

I appreciate your reply and comments, and though it's obvious we are of different understandings concerning most of our belief's I think it appears to me that our goals are synonymous, which is Christ first in everything. Concerning the above, it's my understanding that the base of our belief's differ (unless I'm misinterpreting you) in relation to where the onus is concerning effecting (producing) salvation, which I believe is on God because man cannot originate anything that's related to producing salvation. To me either way it's phrased it's the same revelation of truth: one who is saved will continue to show it unto the end; one who endures unto the end shows they are saved. To me one who is saved is one who has been given all that is needed to manifest it in outward actions (i.e. perseverance and "all things" godly - 2Pe 1:3 ). I also find no sense in the concept that one in whom God is "working" can desire to do otherwise, seeing that rebelling is what His "work" in the believer is all about.

I'm of the understanding that one who is reborn is permanently under God's care ("work" Phl 2:13) and thus will never choose to disobey and cease from loving Him, which, as it is common knowledge, a different basis of theology concerning spiritual growth in comparison to non-osas believers who believe they can keep Him from this "work" in them.

Are you saying that only Christians have the ability to love? Buddhists don't love their families, or each other? Same with atheists, Hindus & Muslims? Try saying that to either a Jewish or Muslim father or mother, that they don't love each other, or their children, or God.

I'm not referring to natural love but God's spiritual love which is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22) and not of man's natural ability, hence the description that "every one that loveth is born of God" (1Jo 4:7).

Would also appreciate it if you could avoid being accusative, which nullifies any potential progress when communication between believers.

God bless!

 

[DNB]

I appreciate your reply and comments, and though it's obvious we are of different understandings concerning most of our belief's I think it appears to me that our goals are synonymous, which is Christ first in everything. Concerning the above, it's my understanding that the base of our belief's differ (unless I'm misinterpreting you) in relation to where the onus is concerning effecting (producing) salvation, which I believe is on God because man cannot originate anything that's related to producing salvation. To me either way it's phrased it's the same revelation of truth: one who is saved will continue to show it unto the end; one who endures unto the end shows they are saved. To me one who is saved is one who has been given all that is needed to manifest it in outward actions (i.e. perseverance and "all things" godly - 2Pe 1:3 ). I also find no sense in the concept that one in whom God is "working" can desire to do otherwise, seeing that rebelling is what His "work" in the believer is all about.

I'm of the understanding that one who is reborn is permanently under God's care ("work" Phl 2:13) and thus will never choose to disobey and cease from loving Him, which, as it is common knowledge, a different basis of theology concerning spiritual growth in comparison to non-osas believers who believe they can keep Him from this "work" in them.


I'm not referring to natural love but God's spiritual love which is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22) and not of man's natural ability, hence the description that "every one that loveth is born of God" (1Jo 4:7).

Would also appreciate it if you could avoid being accusative, which nullifies any potential progress when communication between believers.

God bless!

Ok, thanks NetChaplain, ...I guess, since there is a well-known controversy over the monergistic and synergistic, soteriological relationship between God & man, i felt that the passage that you used, did not support your position.
But, maybe that's not your concern, you are appealing to those who accept a TULIP principle, and not others.
Sorry about the intrusion, ...yes, I don't agree with the Total depravity principle, or the 4 other points of 'Calvinism', so my opinion may not bear much weight with your audience.
My remarks were accusative, yes, maybe I should've refrained for when a controversy was desired. Sorry!
Still, great insights on love, ...even though I don't agree with the logistics.
Thanks!

 

[Netchaplain]

Ok, thanks NetChaplain, ...I guess, since there is a well-known controversy over the monergistic and synergistic, soteriological relationship between God & man, i felt that the passage that you used, did not support your position.
But, maybe that's not your concern, you are appealing to those who accept a TULIP principle, and not others.
Sorry about the intrusion, ...yes, I don't agree with the Total depravity principle, or the 4 other points of 'Calvinism', so my opinion may not bear much weight with your audience.
My remarks were accusative, yes, maybe I should've refrained for when a controversy was desired. Sorry!
Still, great insights on love, ...even though I don't agree with the logistics.
Thanks!

Will always appreciate your replies because I knew your intention is truth, and thanks for your comments here.

God bless!