Love?

[Abeliever]

Now are we talking about the Law which was given to Moses or the Commandments Jesus gave?

I'm talking about the Commandments that Jesus gave. Although this also includes the 10 Commandments. It does not include the old Jewish laws. I don't even know all of them. As Paul said, those laws are dead.
I mean things like don't steal and be honest in your dealings with other people. When I read Proverbs I was surprised how many dealt with honest scales in business. Back in Biblical days folks traded a lot. You may have traded grain for seeds. If my scale was rigged to weight the seeds as heavier than they are, I sinned. Today that has wide application. About 35 years ago we had "Truth in Advertising" Laws. You couldn't print that something was 100% cotton if it wasn't. You couldn't say a sofa shown in a picture sold for $499.99 and when folks get to the store find the sofa shown is $599.99 or there are other little tricks. I don't think we even have these laws anymore.

Jesus defined the person who loves Him as the person who obeys Him, which means to strive not to sin.

John 14: 23Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

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[justaname]

The original command of God to the children of Israel is for Israel to love Israel. That is the original command. And when Christ came to teach God's Word to Israel Christ did not change the Law. The original command is for brethren to love brethren. As a matter of fact God commanded the children of Israel to not mingle with the nations (Goyim) nor to learn their ways. God never commanded the children of Israel to love anyone except a member of the twelve tribes and only them as you can see from the language in the text:

Leviticus 19:17-18 (KJV)
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother [member of the same tribe] in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour [member of one of the other eleven tribes], and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people [member of any tribe], but thou shalt love thy neighbour [member of one of the eleven tribes] as thyself: I am the LORD.

And based upon the way God situated the twelve tribes around the Tabernacle for a TIME the children of Israel obeyed. Until they mingled with the heathen nations and learned their ways.

Keep in mind that Christ did not change the Law, He established it!

Christians are also commanded to love their brethren, to give that which is Holy (God's love) to a holy people, to keep the family jewels in the family. God never commanded Israel nor the Church to love the world (those not brethren), as a matter of fact and Biblical truth, the command is to not love the world [unbelievers] nor things in the world:

1 John 2:15-17 (KJV)
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

He that doeth the will of God [in this respect] abideth for ever.

Amen.

First off you are completely off topic...the question is What is Love, not who do we love.
Yet in the Spirit of Love I will venture with you a bit here...

Luke 10:25-37 The Parable of the good Samaritan.

Looking to the history of the day Samaritans were not Jews, and vice versa. If you seek to justify a hateful spirit, then you harbor no love. No love and you are without God. The command given by Jesus in reference to this parable is to "Go and do the same". The same as the Samaritan did for the Jew. They were of different faiths. As it is the Samaritan was shown to have compassion and mercy, two very telling traits of love. In his choice the Samaritan was impartial as to who he loved.

Love is that which comes from God and manifests itself to all. Does God not make it rain on both the righteous and unrighteous? Did God not display His love when we were dead in our trespasses? Was not Jonah sent to Nineveh?

You say in order to interpret the Scriptures we are to think like the Jews did? Again false.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, but a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

​Peter was thinking like a Jew when he was rebuked by Paul. (Galatians 2:11) The mystery has been reveled and the Gentiles were purchased by the blood of the Lamb. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

You are teaching to abide by the letter, not the Spirit. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Your teaching is exactly what is to be repented of. Your hardened teaching only strengthens a hardened heart that is far away from God.

So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.


Now mind you this, I do not teach replacement theology!

In Truth and Love,
justaname

 

[Abeliever]

You say in order to interpret the Scriptures we are to think like the Jews did?


You are teaching to abide by the letter, not the Spirit.

justaname

I never said we're supposed to think likre Jews. That is so absured I can only say this. I doubt I know how ancent Jews thought.

Nor am I teaching the letter of the Law. I am teaching we need to obey our Lord Jesus. You seem to have a problem with Jesus. You wish to make Him say what you want. I read and mediate on His words daily.
Finally, you could have not even read my entire posts. You're making too many errors about my words. I know what I wrote.

 

[justaname]

I never said we're supposed to think likre Jews. That is so absured I can only say this. I doubt I know how ancent Jews thought.

Nor am I teaching the letter of the Law. I am teaching we need to obey our Lord Jesus. You seem to have a problem with Jesus. You wish to make Him say what you want. I read and mediate on His words daily.
Finally, you could have not even read my entire posts. You're making too many errors about my words. I know what I wrote.

My friend if you look to who was quoted in post #42 I think you might understand better my response...it was written to sonofHilkiah

In the Love of Christ

 

[FHII]

Kinda chuckled at Abeliever's response to justaname and was waiting to see if justaname would address it. It's happened to me before, Abeliever.... It's easy to get mixed up on forums.

Moving on, sonofhilkiah said:

"If you want to understand the Scriptures you must read it with a Hebrew mind-set."

Well, I disagree with that. In fact, the Hebrews stayed on God's bad side alot of the time! So they clearly didn't understand what God was trying to get across to them or they didn't give a hoot. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the Hebrews/Jews who are righteous. But I also realize that they as a people... Well, they pissed God off alot! And I don't want to do that, and I figure God's looking for something a bit more.

On the other hand, I kind of understand where he's coming from, at least in this thread. What is love? Over the past 24 hours I've spent alot of time thinking about this thread and looking at scripture. And after 2000 years, no one else has been able to nail down an answer, especially when we consider that we are trying to figure out what God's love is. I think I'm close! But I do have to think about it a little more.

The thing is, I think sonofhilkiah was trying to address something slightly off topic. Yet, if I remember correctly, the original poster allowed such... I think he was trying to address "who to love". Now, Sonofhilkiah.... If I misunderstand your intentions, I beg your pardon. And I apologize if I misunderstand the point I am about to make.

It seems to me that he was saying that when we are to love everyone, Jesus/God is speaking about the breathren. Not unbelievers. For example: God said thou shall not kill, then he told the nation of Israel to not only kill entire nations, but at times even women, children and any livestock they had. Interpreted, that could even mean pets!

If you want to bring that to the NT, fine. Jesus said love your enemy [paraphrasing]. Fine, why not do it like Jesus did? He called unbelievers (the pharasees and sadducees) vipers, children of the devil and did so in a mocking manner. Often times in front of them! Why, he even one time made a whip and beat the hell out of them!

Yea, true.... He was showing love. He was saying, "Get away from false worship!" But he wasn't nice about it. I haven't even mentioned that he stated that he spoke in parables because he didn't even want them to know the truth. Why? Because if they knew the truth, he'd have to forgive their sins! He didn't want to do that!

Now, there is scripture that says give respect to unbelievers. There is scripture that says honor all men. And I put this to you: You should love all men or at least treat them with brotherly love because...[I'm going to leave you hanging and see if anyone comes up with the answer!]

Yes, I know what Matt 5 says... And I look to do that as humanly possible. Now tell me, are you willing to cut off your hand or pluck out your eye in obedience to the scripture as much as you are demanding me to love my enemy in the way human interpretation demands? You've got to understand that Jesus was making a point. It's too hard to obtain His holiness on our own. The Law was impossible enough, but Jesus upted the ante!

Love everybody? No. Jesus didn't, least not in the way the traditional church world sees it. If you must love everyone, at least start with the brethren.... Those of like precious faith. I even have scripture that says we should prefer them above everyone else!

Oh, by the way... Love is truth. Not just truth. But God's Truth. It's about knowing it, understanding it, and walking in it. Yes, God is love, but he also said he is Truth. Truth and lies is a black and white issue. Love isn't. Unless God's love is Truth and abiding by it. It's a task to back that up with scripture, but I can do it.

Again, sonofhilkiah... If I misrepresented you, I apologize. I think you were making a point that, frankly, you were vague about. Perhaps not so vague that I didn't get it.

 

[justaname]

Kinda chuckled at Abeliever's response to justaname and was waiting to see if justaname would address it. It's happened to me before, Abeliever.... It's easy to get mixed up on forums.

Moving on, sonofhilkiah said:

"If you want to understand the Scriptures you must read it with a Hebrew mind-set."

Well, I disagree with that. In fact, the Hebrews stayed on God's bad side alot of the time! So they clearly didn't understand what God was trying to get across to them or they didn't give a hoot. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the Hebrews/Jews who are righteous. But I also realize that they as a people... Well, they pissed God off alot! And I don't want to do that, and I figure God's looking for something a bit more.

On the other hand, I kind of understand where he's coming from, at least in this thread. What is love? Over the past 24 hours I've spent alot of time thinking about this thread and looking at scripture. And after 2000 years, no one else has been able to nail down an answer, especially when we consider that we are trying to figure out what God's love is. I think I'm close! But I do have to think about it a little more.

The thing is, I think sonofhilkiah was trying to address something slightly off topic. Yet, if I remember correctly, the original poster allowed such... I think he was trying to address "who to love". Now, Sonofhilkiah.... If I misunderstand your intentions, I beg your pardon. And I apologize if I misunderstand the point I am about to make.

It seems to me that he was saying that when we are to love everyone, Jesus/God is speaking about the breathren. Not unbelievers. For example: God said thou shall not kill, then he told the nation of Israel to not only kill entire nations, but at times even women, children and any livestock they had. Interpreted, that could even mean pets!

If you want to bring that to the NT, fine. Jesus said love your enemy [paraphrasing]. Fine, why not do it like Jesus did? He called unbelievers (the pharasees and sadducees) vipers, children of the devil and did so in a mocking manner. Often times in front of them! Why, he even one time made a whip and beat the hell out of them!

Yea, true.... He was showing love. He was saying, "Get away from false worship!" But he wasn't nice about it. I haven't even mentioned that he stated that he spoke in parables because he didn't even want them to know the truth. Why? Because if they knew the truth, he'd have to forgive their sins! He didn't want to do that!

Now, there is scripture that says give respect to unbelievers. There is scripture that says honor all men. And I put this to you: You should love all men or at least treat them with brotherly love because...[I'm going to leave you hanging and see if anyone comes up with the answer!]

Yes, I know what Matt 5 says... And I look to do that as humanly possible. Now tell me, are you willing to cut off your hand or pluck out your eye in obedience to the scripture as much as you are demanding me to love my enemy in the way human interpretation demands? You've got to understand that Jesus was making a point. It's too hard to obtain His holiness on our own. The Law was impossible enough, but Jesus upted the ante!

Love everybody? No. Jesus didn't, least not in the way the traditional church world sees it. If you must love everyone, at least start with the brethren.... Those of like precious faith. I even have scripture that says we should prefer them above everyone else!

Oh, by the way... Love is truth. Not just truth. But God's Truth. It's about knowing it, understanding it, and walking in it. Yes, God is love, but he also said he is Truth. Truth and lies is a black and white issue. Love isn't. Unless God's love is Truth and abiding by it. It's a task to back that up with scripture, but I can do it.

Again, sonofhilkiah... If I misrepresented you, I apologize. I think you were making a point that, frankly, you were vague about. Perhaps not so vague that I didn't get it.

First off I was harsh in my description of being completely off topic...my apologies to everyone especially sonofHilkiah.

Also let me say the hermeneutic of "thinking with a Jewish mindset" is something I actually approach the text with, yet differently than was presented by sonofHilkiah regarding the concept of love. In regards to maintaining a "jewish mindset" I say looking to the Scriptures keeping in mind the original authors and recipients and their way of communicating, living, and understanding is something we must do. Yet there is a boundary that must be set, that is being regenerated. The Jews were taught repentance, and this is not from sin as many would proclaim today, but in their way of thinking. To be sure the greek word for repent has connotations of thinking...

According to Strong's:
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.


So are we to think like Jews to interpret the scriptures, yes and no. Yes to gain insight to the past Scriptures and the culture involved. No because their thinking was flawed in regards to God's will. Here is where I build my case.

God's will is to love. As it is we are to love like Him. He who loved all. John 3:16

Luke 6
27“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Let us dissect a bit to comprehend what is being asked of us and why.

Let us look to the Shemah (a reduced version I know) whose main concept is love. Love God, love others as self. This is our action, our purpose, how our life is to be defined, love. Paul describes this in a way that is Scriptural. A faith that moves mountains is nothing without love. Reflect on this the next time you are wronged.

Why are we to love? Because this is what reflects God's character and we are being conformed into the image of His Son. By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

Now lets move again to the concept of who do we love? My case is founded in Scripture that God allows the sun to shine on both the righteous and wicked. Scripture assures us it was God's kindness that led us to repentance. Scripture has shown where men decided to be partial, yet were shown by God that He is merciful and loving to all. Scripture says God showed His love when we were still enemies.

Our God is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness. Yes our God is love and we are to be like He is. Love holds no records of wrongs nor is it self seeking. Loving only the brethren would cause us to be self seeking. Loving only the brethren would show our love keeping record. If we are to only love the brethren, then who is to proclaim the gospel to the wicked, saving them from the fire? Who will be the lamp on the lamp stand if we all keep our light for our own? Should we not be merciful to those who doubt? If God being so far removed from my troubles, was compassionate with me, a sinful wicked soul, then who am I to withhold love and compassion from another?

Jesus spoke of this...Matthew 18:21-35

 

[lforrest]

Now lets move again to the concept of who do we love? My case is founded in Scripture that God allows the sun to shine on both the righteous and wicked. Scripture assures us it was God's kindness that led us to repentance. Scripture has shown where men decided to be partial, yet were shown by God that He is merciful and loving to all. Scripture says God showed His love when we were still enemies.

Our God is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness. Yes our God is love and we are to be like He is. Love holds no records of wrongs nor is it self seeking. Loving only the brethren would cause us to be self seeking. Loving only the brethren would show our love keeping record. If we are to only love the brethren, then who is to proclaim the gospel to the wicked, saving them from the fire? Who will be the lamp on the lamp stand if we all keep our light for our own? Should we not be merciful to those who doubt? If God being so far removed from my troubles, was compassionate with me, a sinful wicked soul, then who am I to withhold love and compassion from another?

Jesus spoke of this...Matthew 18:21-35

Thank you Justaname, I don't want to detract from anything you have said. I was thinking last night of the lamp and city on a hill. To love only the brethren or potential brethren would make the Church like an aquarium.

There is another reason to love even those who are destined for destruction, and that is God's glory. When we display Love because of God's love in us, that is one less excuse they can try to use at the judgement.

 

[FHII]

Thank you Justaname, I don't want to detract from anything you have said. I was thinking last night of the lamp and city on a hill. To love only the brethren or potential brethren would make the Church like an aquarium.

There is another reason to love even those who are destined for destruction, and that is God's glory. When we display Love because of God's love in us, that is one less excuse they can try to use at the judgement.

Ah, but again... It's easy to know who brethen is, but potential brethren? Who's that? Everyone has the opportunity. Everyone is potential brethren.

The second thought is pretty good... I'll have to think on that. But are you aware that Christ said to leave folks alone (he was speaking of blind leaders leading blind followers)?

You have to understand something about Jesus' love. It is ALL for God and his followers. He has an advntage in that he knows who that is. Yes, I know what John 3:16 says.... And it doesn't say he loved everyone in the world. It says he loved he world and earlier he defined that as "the field". He later stated that there were alot of tares in that field.

 

[Abeliever]

[In fact, the Hebrews stayed on God's bad side alot of the time! So they clearly didn't understand what God was trying to get across to them or they didn't give a hoot. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the Hebrews/Jews who are righteous. But I also realize that they as a people... Well, they pissed God off alot! And I don't want to do that, and I figure God's looking for something a bit more.]

I have often thought about this. Considering all the miracles some of the ancient Jews saw, how could they then go and do what they knew they weren't supposed to do? Then I wonder that if they messed it up, even after seeing miracles, how are we supposed to get it right?

The answer I came up with is that if a person truly has the Holy Spirit living in you, then that's the only way you stand a chance of pleasing God. As far as we know, the average person in OT times didn't have the benefit of the Holy Spirit. Only people like David, Moses, the prophets, and a select other few.

You're debating on who we're supposed to love. I hope you all are kidding. We're supposed to love everyone. Jesus said love your neighbor, not your fellow believer. Who is your neighbor? Jesus answered that one too. Read the parable of the good samaritian. Everyone is your neighbor.

 

[KingJ]

Scripture tells us God is love...

Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

But what is love? This is not a question necessarily seeking to find out the correlation between God and love although responses can reflect that, yet what is love.

​If your response shows me examples of love great! But I will still chase the root...you have provided great examples but you still have not expressed what it is.

We do know there are varying degrees of love, some expressing intimacy such as between a husband and wife. Some forms of love express a strong emotional and relational bond like the love between sisters. Yet other forms of love may have different qualities such as having love for your enemy. We are even told to not love the world, yet we know we must love our neighbors as our selves. Love is more than just an emotion, it is a choice in every given situation.

Is there a difference between loving as a Christian and an unbeliever? Can one love without being a Christian? How does love act. What does love do? When is love perfected?

Don't feel you have to answer every question, these are presented to provoke thought and interest.

Be creative. Be academic. Be philosophical, physiological, psychological. Be loving. :wub:

Love is love. There is nothing mystical or confusing about it. John 15:13 is crystal clear ''Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends''. We can measure our love for God and others by discerning how far we are from laying our lives down completely.

Someone can treat us like dirt, disagree and argue with us on everything, yet still lay their life down for us. Suddenly all the appearance of hatred is eclipsed by the depth of the sacrifice. Along the lines of James 5:20 and sticking through better and worse in marriage.

God is love = God is only love = there is no hatred / evil intentions / evil plans / wicked thoughts with God = God is like a sun that emits immense heat.

God wants us to grasp how great His love is Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height. Every questionable verse in scripture needs to be read in this light. How does a 'God is love' God justify killing the Canaanites? Scripture wants us to ''know / trust / believe'' that He was longsuffering, merciful, patient, their destruction was a last resort. As Jonah said in Jonah 4:2 for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

 

[justaname]

Love is love. There is nothing mystical or confusing about it. John 15:13 is crystal clear ''Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends''. We can measure our love for God and others by discerning how far we are from laying our lives down completely.

Someone can treat us like dirt, disagree and argue with us on everything, yet still lay their life down for us. Suddenly all the appearance of hatred is eclipsed by the depth of the sacrifice. Along the lines of James 5:20 and sticking through better and worse in marriage.

God is love = God is only love = there is no hatred / evil intentions / evil plans / wicked thoughts with God = God is like a sun that emits immense heat.

God wants us to grasp how great His love is Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height. Every questionable verse in scripture needs to be read in this light. How does a 'God is love' God justify killing the Canaanites? Scripture wants us to ''know / trust / believe'' that He was longsuffering, merciful, patient, their destruction was a last resort. As Jonah said in Jonah 4:2 for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

So according to this suicide bombers are some of the most loving people.
Just want you to think, not trying to pick on you...

You have said what love does, not what it is. Dig deeper. Is love an emotion, or something more? Is love something imagined or is it real? Is love only something we can feel, or can we choose to do it?

Looking forward to your response!

 

[KingJ]

1 So according to this suicide bombers are some of the most loving people.
2 Just want you to think, not trying to pick on you...

3 You have said what love does, not what it is. Dig deeper. Is love an emotion, or something more? Is love something imagined or is it real? Is love only something we can feel, or can we choose to do it?

Looking forward to your response!

1. Haha. Take 50 lives for Allah = not exactly laying your life down for others. If the suicide bomber offered to blow up a structure only and end his life to spare his loved ones, different story.

2. I don't mind if you pick on me .

3. Well the person who lays their life down feels fear, anxiety and an inner drive from hatred at injustice and the thought of losing loved ones (which for Christians should include our enemies Matt 5:44). It is a mental decision that produces feelings. Our brains deduce X is good and loving and Y is evil. Take feeding our children as an example. We don't need to feel anything or receive a spiritual revelation to know that it is evil to not feed and look after them. All mental deduction and choosing to do the right thing.

There is a blur though that is caused by God's peace coming over us when we do the right thing and the fact that woman make decisions to love with their emotions more then a man.

Ultimately, our IQ>30 brains are the sole reason we are accountable for sin / not loving. Its all our choice.

 

[FHII]

You're debating on who we're supposed to love. I hope you all are kidding. We're supposed to love everyone. Jesus said love your neighbor, not your fellow believer. Who is your neighbor? Jesus answered that one too. Read the parable of the good samaritian. Everyone is your neighbor.

The Bible doesn't say everyone is your neighbor in that parable.

Luk 10:37

And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

 

[justaname]

The Bible doesn't say everyone is your neighbor in that parable.

Luk 10:37

And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Luke 10:36-37
“Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?” 37And he said, “The one who showed mercy toward him.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.”

So in the context the lawyer asked the question "who is my neighbor". Here is the dialogue...
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”29But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

Focusing on verse 29 we see the lawyer was seeking to justify himself, self righteously fulfilling the law. Knowing the history and culture of the Jews, most likely the lawyer adhered to the Law by the letter and loved his fellow countrymen dearly. The parable given contrasts the common jewish conception that they needed only to love their countrymen. What Jesus did in this parable was to redefine what being a "neighbor" meant to the common Jew.

 

[KingJ]

The Bible doesn't say everyone is your neighbor in that parable.

Luk 10:37

And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

That's a moot point as we have Matt 5:44.

Love is Spirit...

When it enters your life everything changes. You do not see things as you once did, you hear a different nuance in other's speaking, you feel as if you were never alive before it came. You give up all you had to experience it more fully and completely. You desire to be perfected by it. It deafens you with it's cry of compassion; it melts you in it's embrace. It envelopes you with a grip that can not be broken, yet it is so gentle you barely know it is holding you at all. With a glance it will bring you to your knees, with a word it will cause your eyes to well up with emotion, with a touch it will set your soul on fire.

Love is power.

Your post sounds like a poem ^_^. I have to disagree. You are describing feelings associated with / flowing from grasping love. Our decision to love starts off in the head / driven by our will. Love we receive from lets say, God is something our brains grasp as good / selfless / required effort and that then produces the emotions.

Love is the cross. Grasping that causes a euphoria. Love is not a spirit. Love is not power. Love is not an emotion / feeling. Love is a good deed.
Just being really pedantic .

 

[FHII]

That's a moot point as we have Matt 5:44.

KingJ, I understand it can be a daunting task reading every post before responding to one point at the end, but I did address Matt 5:44. To rehash, Jesus' way of showing love was publically insulting the Pharasees, beating them with a whip and at one point he told his disciples not to even bother with them (look at Mat 15:14). He was showing love.... For the Father. But he wasn't showing love to them (other than telling the truth about them).

Here's another point. David said that he hated his enemies (Those who spake against God wickely, and take his name in vain) with perfect hatred. I'm sure someone will say, "Well, that the OT!". Ok. Good point. Not necessarily a valid one, but there are things to look at in the NT as well. Paul had an enemy in Alexander the coppersmith and Hymenaeus. He delivered them to Satan and specifically about Alexander he prayed that the Lord would reward him for his works (that's not a good thing).

Now, THAT'S the way to love your enemy! Paul simply said to God, "your will be done concerning him!" He didn't try to take vengence himself or handle it himself. He prayed for his enemy. It goes along with Hebrews 10:30 which says, "for we know him that hath said, Vengence belongeth unto me, I will recompense".

God can do things to your enemy that you can't even dream about! On the other hand, God also knows if they are really an enemy or one who like Paul (the very guy who prayed that prayer) is really a sheep in wolf's clothing. Annanias in Acts 9 probably undestood that, and that's why its a good thing he obeyed God when he laid hands on him (Paul).

So love your enemy and pray for him? Ok, but do it the Bible way, and Paul gave an example of that.

---------

I want to switch gears because I just remembered a verse that no one has brought up (including me). I'm suprised at it because it directly tells what love is. Earlier I said love is truth and expounded on it, and I stick by that. But have a look 2 John 1:6:

"And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."

Others have stated this, (and I acknowledge them that did), but no one that I have seen has posted this verse. As for my thought that love is truth and walking in it (I did say that, do some backtracking...), again I stand by that and if you read the whole book (it's short) you will see how important truth and especially truthful doctrine is.

 

[justaname]

KingJ, I understand it can be a daunting task reading every post before responding to one point at the end, but I did address Matt 5:44. To rehash, Jesus' way of showing love was publically insulting the Pharasees, beating them with a whip and at one point he told his disciples not to even bother with them (look at Mat 15:14). He was showing love.... For the Father. But he wasn't showing love to them (other than telling the truth about them).

Here's another point. David said that he hated his enemies (Those who spake against God wickely, and take his name in vain) with perfect hatred. I'm sure someone will say, "Well, that the OT!". Ok. Good point. Not necessarily a valid one, but there are things to look at in the NT as well. Paul had an enemy in Alexander the coppersmith and Hymenaeus. He delivered them to Satan and specifically about Alexander he prayed that the Lord would reward him for his works (that's not a good thing).

Now, THAT'S the way to love your enemy! Paul simply said to God, "your will be done concerning him!" He didn't try to take vengence himself or handle it himself. He prayed for his enemy. It goes along with Hebrews 10:30 which says, "for we know him that hath said, Vengence belongeth unto me, I will recompense".

God can do things to your enemy that you can't even dream about! On the other hand, God also knows if they are really an enemy or one who like Paul (the very guy who prayed that prayer) is really a sheep in wolf's clothing. Annanias in Acts 9 probably undestood that, and that's why its a good thing he obeyed God when he laid hands on him (Paul).

So love your enemy and pray for him? Ok, but do it the Bible way, and Paul gave an example of that.

---------

I want to switch gears because I just remembered a verse that no one has brought up (including me). I'm suprised at it because it directly tells what love is. Earlier I said love is truth and expounded on it, and I stick by that. But have a look 2 John 1:6:

"And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."

Others have stated this, (and I acknowledge them that did), but no one that I have seen has posted this verse. As for my thought that love is truth and walking in it (I did say that, do some backtracking...), again I stand by that and if you read the whole book (it's short) you will see how important truth and especially truthful doctrine is.

Jesus showed love like no other...

1 John 2:22
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

The whip Jesus used was for driving the animals out of the temple not the people, the rebukes or what you call "insults" were given to stir true repentance (change thinking), David was a sinner still under the tudor of the Law and was simply speaking the truth in his heart

Jeremiah speaks of the heart of the unregenerate...
"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

And Jesus speaks to the condition of the heart
"You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.

(further in the Psalm David admits he has "anxious" thoughts where we as New Covenant believers are admonished to not be anxious about anything Philippians 4:6)...

Then Paul handing people to Satan is not a good or loving thing? Consider this:

It may be that simply putting a person out of the covenant community is the same as handing him over to Satan, but I don't think so. When Paul says at the end of verse 4, "with the power of the Lord Jesus," I think he shows us that something more is happening—something that takes the power of Jesus to perform. Paul did it at least one other time that we know about (1 Tim. 1:20): "I have handed over Hymenaeus and Alexander to Satan so that they may be taught not to blaspheme."
What seems to be in view is something like what happened in the book of Job. The only other place in the Bible outside Paul's letters where "handing someone over to Satan" with these very words occurs is Job 2:6, which says, literally, "And the Lord said to the Devil, 'Behold I hand him [Job] over to you. Only spare his life.'"

The next verse says, "Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head." And the result of God's gracious purpose? Job 42:6-7: "Now my eye sees you [O Lord] and I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes."
Taken from:http://www.desiringgod.org/sermons/how-satan-saves-the-soul

We do know vengeance is the Lord's, this is because God is just and His justice will be served.


Now speaking to the 2 John 6 verse it is simply stating that to love is to "walk in it", that is love. Walking after His commandment is to love because the commandment is defined as love and is couched in the context of "loving one another" vs 5.

Look also to Ephesians 5:2
and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

So 2 John 6 could be rephrased, "this is love, to live out love in every aspect of life".

That's a moot point as we have Matt 5:44.


Your post sounds like a poem ^_^. I have to disagree. You are describing feelings associated with / flowing from grasping love. Our decision to love starts off in the head / driven by our will. Love we receive from lets say, God is something our brains grasp as good / selfless / required effort and that then produces the emotions.

Love is the cross. Grasping that causes a euphoria. Love is not a spirit. Love is not power. Love is not an emotion / feeling. Love is a good deed.

Just being really pedantic .

God is Spirit (John 4:24)...God is Love (1 John 4:8)
I would not say God is a good deed.

Our decision to love is started off in the heart and driven by the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Ezekiel 36:26
"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Hebrews 10:16
"THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says,

If you look throughout the history of the nation of Israel you can see their heart was far from God. It is the partial purpose of the New Covenant to change the evil heart of humanity and fill it with love. God's Spirit attests to the new heart and perfects us in love. It is not through our effort, yet through the enabling God provided for His namesake.

Ezekiel 36:22
"Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went.

 

[KingJ]

KingJ, I understand it can be a daunting task reading every post before responding to one point at the end, but I did address Matt 5:44. To rehash, Jesus' way of showing love was publically insulting the Pharasees, beating them with a whip and at one point he told his disciples not to even bother with them (look at Mat 15:14). He was showing love.... For the Father. But he wasn't showing love to them (other than telling the truth about them).

Here's another point. David said that he hated his enemies (Those who spake against God wickely, and take his name in vain) with perfect hatred. I'm sure someone will say, "Well, that the OT!". Ok. Good point. Not necessarily a valid one, but there are things to look at in the NT as well. Paul had an enemy in Alexander the coppersmith and Hymenaeus. He delivered them to Satan and specifically about Alexander he prayed that the Lord would reward him for his works (that's not a good thing).

Now, THAT'S the way to love your enemy! Paul simply said to God, "your will be done concerning him!" He didn't try to take vengence himself or handle it himself. He prayed for his enemy. It goes along with Hebrews 10:30 which says, "for we know him that hath said, Vengence belongeth unto me, I will recompense".

God can do things to your enemy that you can't even dream about! On the other hand, God also knows if they are really an enemy or one who like Paul (the very guy who prayed that prayer) is really a sheep in wolf's clothing. Annanias in Acts 9 probably undestood that, and that's why its a good thing he obeyed God when he laid hands on him (Paul).

So love your enemy and pray for him? Ok, but do it the Bible way, and Paul gave an example of that.

---------

I want to switch gears because I just remembered a verse that no one has brought up (including me). I'm suprised at it because it directly tells what love is. Earlier I said love is truth and expounded on it, and I stick by that. But have a look 2 John 1:6:

"And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."

Others have stated this, (and I acknowledge them that did), but no one that I have seen has posted this verse. As for my thought that love is truth and walking in it (I did say that, do some backtracking...), again I stand by that and if you read the whole book (it's short) you will see how important truth and especially truthful doctrine is.

God shows tough love. There is not a single living being on the planet that God does not love. God even loves the devil. Look at how He entertained him on not one but THREE occasions in the wilderness. Look at how the demons request to be cast into pigs was honored. Look at how God allowed the devil to leave heaven with dignity as a great dragon. God HATES ONLY sin / evil / wickedness. God does NOT hate ANY of His creation. Keeping them alive for eternity and not annihilating them is further proof of this.

Paul and David are not God.
Removing a wolf from lambs is NOT hating the wolf. Matt 5:44 + Mal 3:6 (God does not change) points toward God eternally loving His enemies.

 

[FHII]

Jesus showed love like no other...

1 John 2:22
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

The whip Jesus used was for driving the animals out of the temple not the people, the rebukes or what you call "insults" were given to stir true repentance (change thinking),

John 2:14-15 (KJV) says:

"And he found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting. And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen..."

Jesus did not use the whip to drive out the animals... It says he drove them all out of the temple, meaning the people he was angry at. No where does it say the whip was for the animals, but in context, he used it to drive out the people.

the rebukes or what you call "insults" were given to stir true repentance (change thinking),

In Mat 15:12 the disciples said to Jesus, [paraphrasing], "Don't you know you offended the Pharasees? Jesus answered in verse 14-15:

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up. Let them alone:They be blind leaders of the blind."

So first off, it isn't only me that thought they were insults. Second, Jesus said the Father didn't plant them, so leave them alone. It doesn't look like Jesus was giving them a chance to repent. He didn't even want his disciples trying to teach them.

David was a sinner still under the tudor of the Law and was simply speaking the truth in his heart


(further in the Psalm David admits he has "anxious" thoughts where we as New Covenant believers are admonished to not be anxious about anything Philippians 4:6)..

It is irrelevant that David was still under the Law. This Psalm has nothing to do with the Law. David is described as a man after God's heart and fulfilled all the will of God (Acts 13:22)

Psalms 139 says
"Surely thou shall slay the wicked oh God. Depart from me therefore thy bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Do I not hate them Lord, who hate thee? Am I not grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred, I count them my enemies"

No where does it say he was "anxious". Philippians 4:6 doesn't say it either, but says, "Be careful for nothing". I suppose you are using a different version. If so, the use of the word "anxious" would have two totally different meanings. In Psalms, David was angry. In Philippeans, it means "to take thought of. In otherwords, "with food and rainment be content".

more later

Now speaking to the 2 John 6 verse it is simply stating that to love is to "walk in it", that is love. Walking after His commandment is to love because the commandment is defined as love and is couched in the context of "loving one another" vs 5.

Look also to Ephesians 5:2
and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

So 2 John 6 could be rephrased, "this is love, to live out love in every aspect of life".

I see you reasoning and like it and agree with it. But not your final conclusion. In context, 2 John is speaking about the Lady and her children, not everyone. If you doubt that, start reading that book at verse 7.... You will see what I mean. Even Eph 5:2 isn't talking about everyone. Furthermore.... It doesn't change the fact that God defined love as walking in his commandments.

God shows tough love. There is not a single living being on the planet that God does not love. God even loves the devil. Look at how He entertained him on not one but THREE occasions in the wilderness. Look at how the demons request to be cast into pigs was honored. Look at how God allowed the devil to leave heaven with dignity as a great dragon. God HATES ONLY sin / evil / wickedness. God does NOT hate ANY of His creation. Keeping them alive for eternity and not annihilating them is further proof of this.

Paul and David are not God.

Removing a wolf from lambs is NOT hating the wolf. Matt 5:44 + Mal 3:6 (God does not change) points toward God eternally loving His enemies.

Well, he hated Esau, so there goes your theory that there isn't s single living being God doesn't love. Hebrews 12 even says God rejected his repentance even though he (Esau) was sincere. As for God loving the Devil.... Yea, ok sure. Wow! I can agree that God uses Satan. But love him? What's the lake of fire for then? And guess what, It's not only Satan that's going to be there.

As for Paul not being God... True, but he was God's amassador and spokesman. When Paul talked EXCEPT when he spoke by permission, it was just the same as God talking. As for David not being God.... Well, David was a prophet and enjoyed "ambassador" status as well. Furthermore, I don't have any other candidates for people that fulfilled "all the will of God and were men after God's own heart." So I have to think that we should listen to him. Yes, we have the Bathsheba incident. Fine. But other than that, God seemed hunky dory with David.

Let me just ask you one thing.... Is God a man of War?

 

[KingJ]

1. Well, he hated Esau, so there goes your theory that there isn't s single living being God doesn't love. Hebrews 12 even says God rejected his repentance even though he (Esau) was sincere. As for God loving the Devil.... Yea, ok sure. Wow! I can agree that God uses Satan. But love him? What's the lake of fire for then? And guess what, It's not only Satan that's going to be there.

2. As for Paul not being God... True, but he was God's amassador and spokesman. When Paul talked EXCEPT when he spoke by permission, it was just the same as God talking. As for David not being God.... Well, David was a prophet and enjoyed "ambassador" status as well. Furthermore, I don't have any other candidates for people that fulfilled "all the will of God and were men after God's own heart." So I have to think that we should listen to him. Yes, we have the Bathsheba incident. Fine. But other than that, God seemed hunky dory with David.

3. Let me just ask you one thing.... Is God a man of War?

1. You cannot read scripture saying God 'hated' Esau in isolation to scripture like John 3:16, Acts 10:34 'God is impartial / no favoritism' or Matt 19:14 'heaven belongs to the children'. When you consider God hates X in context of all scripture or just reading the full message on Esau you will find that Esau chose wickedness. You will find that the correct context is that God was not impressed with Esau / what he had become.

Unless you honestly believe if Esau was a baby he would go to hell.....that would make your belief sick and God a mental case + liar Matt 19:14.

2. Yes, all scripture is the word of God. That was not my dispute. Jonah sheds light on my argument in Jonah 4:2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. If you read the full passage you will find that Jonah hated the people of Nineveh. He knew God did not hate them / would have mercy on them. Jonah and God's views are BOTH in scripture. Paul and David could just as easily speak from their vantage point. We need to grasp that when David says he hates X, that we too must hate X....but look at all scripture before we say that God also hates X. Isolating and cherry picking scripture to paint God in a bad light is what you are doing. The sin of Nineveh was almost reaching full measure (much like the sin of the Amorites in Gen 15:16) where His wrath would kick in. God's wrath is only on the workers of iniquity Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness. Note the bold and underlined '''WHO suppress the truth''. We suppress the truth. Esau suppressed the truth. Cain suppressed the truth. It is NOT a case of God chose from birth to hate Esau. That is absolutely terrible hermeneutics and exegesis of the passage on Esau.
3. No. Wrath is God's last resort. His will is for all to come to Him. He relents from sending calamity Jonah 4:2. If He does it is NEVER by means of brazen bulls, head-crushers, knee splitters, breast rippers, scolds bridles, breaking wheels etc etc.

We see God's love for His enemies / the wicked in how they were killed. Prophets never burnt sorcerers with small fires, stoned adulterers with small stones etc etc.

As for the devil. Yes God does love Him. Hell is a home that God has created for the wicked who hate Him. He is allowing the wicked to exercise their free will to hate Him. If there was a way that God could cause them to love Him / want to be with Him without over riding their free will, He would do it. God does not force anyone to be with Him in heaven. That would be evil of Him. God is not evil.