Loving the Law

jiggyfly · Feb 7, 2012

Episkopos said:
What parts does Paul contradict?

I already pointed it out to you in my first post.

justaname · Feb 7, 2012

So do you still sacrifice at the temple? How about your clothes, are they all of the same thread? What about the dietary laws, do you abide in them? Shall we do the brotherly duty of the widowed sister-in-law?
Matther 5:18

“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
John 19:30

Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

Episkopos · Feb 7, 2012

justaname said:
So do you still sacrifice at the temple? How about your clothes, are they all of the same thread? What about the dietary laws, do you abide in them? Shall we do the brotherly duty of the widowed sister-in-law?
Matther 5:18

“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
John 19:30

Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

Paul is speaking of the law of righteousness...doing what is pleasing to God. It is obvious that the sacrificial system is done away with in Christ. If you look carefully you will see that even Judaism is unable to continue in the holiness part of the law. It has been superceded by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

To say that the law is finished at the cross is nonsense. That would mean that since ALL are now considered under sin...then sin is now permissable to ALL without any penalties. Can you say lawlessness?

LoveJesus777 · Feb 7, 2012

Episkopos said:
The love of other things will choke out the word so that we will read something in the bible while totally ignoring the implications. For instance Jesus tells us we must hate our families and even our own lives compared to Him. This is thrown aside as we care for our families first and seek to preserve our own lives with it's opinions and seekings. Do we really put the kingdom first? Have we forsaken everything?

So only those with a love for the truth will understand the word and be able to apply it.

Hello Episkopos

Yes..This is what Jesus said.. This means to die unto ourselves..possessions..or anything that else that becomes more important than Him..can be an idol in our lives.He wants us to have a relationship with Him.. 100 %

New International Version (©1984)
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

justaname · Feb 7, 2012

So you saying part of the law is done away with as other parts are not? So can we pick and chose what parts we are in agreement with and what parts we are not? Do you not see the corner you are painting yourself into?

Again righteousness is by faith not works.
As for lawlessness
John 3:18

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
No longer is it sin that condemns but belief. Paul also covers this in his epistles. Those who do not believe are judged already, those who do believe are held accountable to the Spirit. Galatians 5:19-23

aspen · Feb 7, 2012

oh the dialectic......

digging for truth through disagreement....ugh

Episkopos · Feb 7, 2012

aspen said:
oh the dialectic......

digging for truth through disagreement....ugh

I agree that the truth is always a dialectic...two seemingly contradictory statements that together frame the truth. Like fearing the Lord and yet perfect loves casts out all fear...like not being under the law yet abiding in the fulness of the law. Unless someone already understands the truth, they will never understand the verses.

justaname said:
So you saying part of the law is done away with as other parts are not? So can we pick and chose what parts we are in agreement with and what parts we are not? Do you not see the corner you are painting yourself into?

Again righteousness is by faith not works.
As for lawlessness
John 3:18

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
No longer is it sin that condemns but belief. Paul also covers this in his epistles. Those who do not believe are judged already, those who do believe are held accountable to the Spirit. Galatians 5:19-23

Paul says if we sin we are then transgressors...transgressors of what?

Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Jas_2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

These verses don't make sense who try to understand the bible with the old carnal mind. The law does not condemn someone who performs the requirements of the law.

aspen · Feb 8, 2012

that is a paradox.....

Episkopos · Feb 8, 2012

The truth goes beyond our human experience. So when we try to understand the bible from our previous experience, we will ALWAYS be wrong. We need faith to break out of the chains that bind us to our present reality.

The israelites reasoned in their own minds that the God who could part the sea could not help them to defeat the "giants" in the land. They had learned nothing and refused to believe.

How many "believers" today think it impossible for the risen Christ within us to strengthen us to NOT sin and defeat the inner giants of evil within us?

When we love the law of God and His precepts, we can swear to our own hurt...and agree with God! This is a vital first step towareds a life that is pleasing to God.

justaname · Feb 8, 2012

I agree that the same God that rose Jesus from the dead, gives us power to overcome sin.
Romans 2:12-16
 
12<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space

re"> For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 
13<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space

re"> for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 
14<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space

re"> For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 
15<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space

re"> in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 
16<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space

re"> on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
 
This is the sum of our discussion. Unless you were a Jew born under the Law, you do not have the Law, yet you are a law onto yourself.
You ask "transgressors of what?" Transgressors of God is the answer.
As for the book of James verse. Observe the audience James is writing to and you will better understand the text.
James 1:1
1<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space

re"> James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.
 
Now in your post you so graciously show us verse 9 yet omit verse 8, I wonder why. Maybe because it is a different law that James is speaking of.
 
James 2:8
 
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.
 
Notice here the word law is not capitol. This is because it is not speaking of the fulfilled Law, the Mosaic Law, rather he called it a royal law. This is the summery of the Law given by Jesus Christ, our Lord and savior. In this James is using a terminology Jews are familiar with by using the word law at all. 
 
 
What you attempt to preach is bondage to the same Law that is fulfilled. Again if we are held to the Law we should be sacrificing at the temple, Jesus being the fulfillment, no sacrifice is required any longer.
My question is this, were you born under the Law? If so were you circumcised on the eight day? What portions of the Law do you omit?
Gentiles are not born under the Law! Jews today try to continue the Law that has been completed by Jesus. Are you guilty of doing the same? 
 
 
 
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eeekkk

Episkopos · Feb 8, 2012

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

If we love the truth then we love the law...they are the same.

In these end times many do not love the truth and they rail against the law...

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1Ti_1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
2Ti_2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

The great error of our time is to mix the requirements of one law ...or rather nullify the requirements of one law in order to receive the benefit of a different set of criteria.

For eample...we have the law of life in Christ Jesus with the promise of life and glory....but to obtain this we need to die daily and walk as dead men according to the flesh so we can be empowered by His strength. A high cost indeed!!!

When the disciples were disputing among themselves on who would be the greatest did not Jesus warn them of the cost of such a request?

But today we see things without the corresponding law...promising "money for nothing and chicks (small chickens) for free" so to speak.

This is the sign of the irresponsibility of our times which we thrust onto the bible thus taking away the truth of it. And the people all said amen!????

justaname · Feb 8, 2012

Romans 2:12-16

For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Unless you were a Jew born under the Law, you do not have the Law, yet you are a law onto yourself.

You ask, "transgressors of what?" Transgressors of God.

James 1:1

James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.
Notice the audience here. James is writing to Jews, thereby he uses language they understand and are familiar with.

James 2:8

If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

This is not the Mosaic Law that is referenced here. Gentiles do not have the Law! Were you born a Jew under the Law?
What you attempt to preach, is bondage to the same Law that was fulfilled by Jesus. You admit no sacrifice is necessary because Jesus is the accepted sacrifice. So my question to you is only part of the Law fulfilled, for to be sure again you admit the sacrificial system is done away with. Are you attempting to strip Jesus' atoning work on the cross for the remainder of sin in accordance to the Law?

NicholasMarks · Feb 8, 2012

Episkopos said:
David said...

Psa 119:47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved
Psa 119:48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psa 119:163 I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love

Psa 119:115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God. .

Psa 119:97 . O how I love thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

There is a great lack of understanding in the church of today regarding the law and it's purpose. We see 2 extremes that both lead to futility.

On the one hand we have the Jews who seek to obey the law of righteousness...but from themselves in their own strength and traditions.

On the other hand we have the lawless ones calling themselves believers who think that God wishes to abolish the law in order to make men righteous. But God is a righteous God and we must be HOLY before Him.

The truth is that we, by faith, have access to the resurrection power of grace so that we accomplish the law through the indwelling Christ. It is Christ in us that enables us to do all things. As we abide in Christ the law is satisfied since we do exactly as our Master says...because He empowers us to do it. This is Christianity. Not some scheme to try to attain to righteousness by our own efforts, or by condoning lawlessness through a false belief system that makes God unrighteous and encourages the rebellion of Adam.

We must love the law...and do it perfectly. But only in Christ can this be done.

We love the light since the light exposes not sin...but our faith in Christ.

The wonderful thing about righteousness, the light, the word of Jesus Christ, and obedience to Almighty God, is that it activates a science of wholesomeness and well being. It brings alive a mechanics that Almighty God listens too and which Jesus Christ taught us about. His word is the 'light of the world' and encompasses a wonderful insight into our health and our salvation and our everlasting life.

Episkopos · Feb 8, 2012

justaname said:
Romans 2:12-16

For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Unless you were a Jew born under the Law, you do not have the Law, yet you are a law onto yourself.

You ask, "transgressors of what?" Transgressors of God.

James 1:1

James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.
Notice the audience here. James is writing to Jews, thereby he uses language they understand and are familiar with.

James 2:8

If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

This is not the Mosaic Law that is referenced here. Gentiles do not have the Law! Were you born a Jew under the Law?
What you attempt to preach, is bondage to the same Law that was fulfilled by Jesus. You admit no sacrifice is necessary because Jesus is the accepted sacrifice. So my question to you is only part of the Law fulfilled, for to be sure again you admit the sacrificial system is done away with. Are you attempting to strip Jesus' atoning work on the cross for the remainder of sin in accordance to the Law?

I am attempting to bring the truth into the false reality we see so much these days. Jesus' atonement on the cross was followed by His resurrection...which is conveniently left out of our equation. Rather than just die for our sins Jesus was raised in order that WE might be God's righteousness in Him! So rather than explain away the power of the resurrection as unsufficient to free us from our carnal state as is being preached practically everywhere today...we have faith in Christ that He enables us to actually fulfill the law that is associated with the New Covenant.....we are to be as holy as God is holy. Anything less than that goes against the law that we claim saves us.

This is then the hypocrisy of our generation...we claim to be saved by the law of the word while stating that the law of the word no longer has any effect....so we are actually saying our salvation is worthless. I don't expect many to understand this.

Cobbling together a salvation plan from bits and pieces of the law...out of any context, has become the norm.

NicholasMarks said:
The wonderful thing about righteousness, the light, the word of Jesus Christ, and obedience to Almighty God, is that it activates a science of wholesomeness and well being. It brings alive a mechanics that Almighty God listens too and which Jesus Christ taught us about. His word is the 'light of the world' and encompasses a wonderful insight into our health and our salvation and our everlasting life.

...and as long as we apply the word lawfully, we can progress in the will of God.

justaname · Feb 8, 2012

Thank you for enduring with me on this subject. Now I can agree with what it is you are bringing to light.
Shalom

Episkopos · Feb 8, 2012

justaname said:
Thank you for enduring with me on this subject. Now I can agree with what it is you are bringing to light.
Shalom

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Loving the Law

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