Luke 14:15-24 Rapture Before Great Tribulation

[Jay Ross]

I qualify hands down as being ignorant, how could God's word' below be ignorant?

Revelation 16:12-14 & Revelation 20:7-8 are the exact same event of the future Satan/Devil being released to deceive the nation's to the final battle, and yes I believe the stage is being set for this to take place as the world' s
armies are being assembled around Israel.

There will be no 1000 year kingdom on this earth as is falsely taught in dispensationalism.

When Jesus returns, it will be in fire and "Final Judgment", dissolvong this earth by his fire, 2 Peter 3:10, Malachi 3:2, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Nahum 1:5, 1 Corinthians 3:13

Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lords spiritual realm, with spiritual beings, there is no physical earthly kingdom seen or represented whatsoever.

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 100% spiritual world, no literal earthly kingdom is seen.

Revelation 20 KJV
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Many are taught that Matthew 25:31-46 sheep/goat judgment takes place to judge those worthy to enter a millennial kingdom on this earth?

False, as this is the "Final Judgment"
As verse 41 shows the wicked are judged to the "eternal lake of fire", and verse 46 shows the righteous obtain "Eternal Life"

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matthew 25:31-46KJV
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I have not the time to be continuing having a discussion with an ignorant person who is full of himself and his own understanding of scripture.

I can tell you once, I can tell you twice, I can tell you many times, but when you chose to ignore what I write and cut and paste the same words as your response, as if repeating those word will justify your understanding, then you are delusional and are nothing more that a ba … rasp wearing down the saints of God and they will chose with regret to put you on ignore.

Go and spend time with your loved ones. It will be more profitable for all concerned.

 

[Enoch111]

God is not going to zap His church out! No one is going anywhere..

If you believe this then please explain what is being taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. There are many other passages but let's focus on this one.

 

[Truth7t7]

If you believe this then please explain what is being taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. There are many other passages but let's focus on this one.

Questiions?

1.) Do you believe the scripture verses below represent the same event?

2.) Do you see a resurrection of the believer?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Corinthians 15:51-52KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Enoch111]

1.) Do you believe the scripture verses below represent the same event? 2.) Do you see a resurrection of the believer?

Both of those passage describe the Resurrection/Rapture, which is all one event, and in "the twinkling of an eye" (almost instantaneous).

Christ brings the souls and spirits of those already "dead in Christ" to give them resurrected, immortal, glorious, and perfect bodies. Immediately after that the living saints on earth at that time are also perfected and glorified. Then all the saints rise to meet the Lord in the air and return to Heaven, to be with Him eternally. The Marriage of the Lamb takes place later after which we see the second coming of Christ WITH His saints and angels.

 

[Truth7t7]

Both of those passage describe the Resurrection/Rapture, which is all one event, and in "the twinkling of an eye" (almost instantaneous).

Christ brings the souls and spirits of those already "dead in Christ" to give them resurrected, immortal, glorious, and perfect bodies. Immediately after that the living saints on earth at that time are also perfected and glorified. Then all the saints rise to meet the Lord in the air and return to Heaven, to be with Him eternally. The Marriage of the Lamb takes place later after which we see the second coming of Christ WITH His saints and angels.

Do you believe the scripture below, represents a "Pre-Tribulation Rapture" Of the church to heaven?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Corinthians 15:51-52KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Do you believe the scripture below, represents a "Pre-Tribulation Rapture" Of the church to heaven?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Corinthians 15:51-52KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There is a key phrase in 1 Corinthians 15:52.....in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP.....(this refers to the Jewish Feasts).....Jesus said himself....as it was spoken by the prophet Daniel...the time when the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place...(whoso readeth, let him understand).......The timing of the Lord's return lines up with the Jewish Feasts and Tabernacles....this is what people should be studying to fully understand the scriptures concerning the rapture.

 

[Enoch111]

Those that say it refers to Israel use it to support the concept that the church has been removed.

The "elect" in Matthew 24 cannot be the Church. The contrast between how the elect are gathered and how the Church is gathered is quite significant.

For the Rapture, Christ personally comes to take the Church home BEFORE His second coming.

For the elect, He sends His angels to the ends of the earth to gather the believing Jewish remnant to Israel AFTER His second coming.

 

[Enoch111]

Do you believe the scripture below, represents a "Pre-Tribulation Rapture" Of the church to heaven?

Yes. Neither of those passages has any relation to any Tribulation period.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes. Neither of those passages has any relation to any Tribulation period.

Enoch we agree on much, no person can deny the truth presented below with a clear conscious.

You stated you agree both verses below 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 & 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 are the same event, and you claim this to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church to heaven.

In both passages given, you see the "Resurrection" of the dead in Christ, in John 6:39-40 Jesus Christ taught the believers are resurrected at the "Last Day"!

Will you now bend and twist the interpretation of "Last Day"?

Will you bend and twist the truth of the "Last Enemy Death" being destroyed at this event?

Will you subject yourself to the truth of God's word?

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In the verses below we see the progression to the "Last Day" "The End" Christ is first, then the righteous believer is reseuuected, the the end comes.

Verses 26 & 54 below show the "Last Enemy Death" is destroyed at this "Last Day" resurrection.

1Corinthians 15:23-26 & 51-54KJV
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Enoch111]

Will you now bend and twist the interpretation of "Last Day"?

There is nothing to bend and twist. When the Lord said "the Last Day" He was pointing to a period of time which would extend for at least 1,000 years. Proof? Revelation 20.

THE RESURRECTION OF THE RIGHTEOUS DEAD
20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;...

ONE THOUSAND YEAR GAP
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years...This is the first resurrection.

THE RESURRECTION OF THE UNRIGHTEOUS DEAD
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished...

 

[Truth7t7]

There is nothing to bend and twist. When the Lord said "the Last Day" He was pointing to a period of time which would extend for at least 1,000 years. Proof? Revelation 20.

THE RESURRECTION OF THE RIGHTEOUS DEAD
20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;...

ONE THOUSAND YEAR GAP
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years...This is the first resurrection.

THE RESURRECTION OF THE UNRIGHTEOUS DEAD
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished...

What are you going to do with the "Last Enemy Death" being destroyed, as you believe human life continues beyond 1 Corinthians 15:54?

"Then Cometh The End"?

"Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory"?

Verses 26 & 54 below show the "Last Enemy Death" is destroyed?

1Corinthians 15:23-26 & 51-54KJV
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Enoch111]

What are you going to do with the "Last Enemy Death" being destroyed, as you believe human life continues beyond 1 Corinthians 15:54?

"Then Cometh The End"?

"Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory"?

The solution is quite simple. Chronologically, "Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory" is applicable to the Church BEFORE the second coming of Christ. At the Rapture, all who are alive are transformed and translated to Heaven, while those who died in Christ are resurrected with immortal, perfect, glorious, and glorified bodies.

"Then Cometh The End" refers to what happens AFTER the second coming of Christ. At the Great White Throne judgment, we see that Death and Hades are personified and cast into the Lake of Fire. This means that there will be no more death on earth, no more unsaved dead, and therefore no need for Hades. Following this we have the establishment of the New Heavens and the New Earth, Which means there will never again be sin on earth, therefore there will never again be death on earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

The solution is quite simple. Chronologically, "Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory" is applicable to the Church BEFORE the second coming of Christ. At the Rapture, all who are alive are transformed and translated to Heaven, while those who died in Christ are resurrected with immortal, perfect, glorious, and glorified bodies.

"Then Cometh The End" refers to what happens AFTER the second coming of Christ. At the Great White Throne judgment, we see that Death and Hades are personified and cast into the Lake of Fire. This means that there will be no more death on earth, no more unsaved dead, and therefore no need for Hades. Following this we have the establishment of the New Heavens and the New Earth, Which means there will never again be sin on earth, therefore there will never again be death on earth.

You have not answered the direct question, your bending and twisting still has not answered?

"The Last Enemy Death Is Destroyed"

You have humans living after death is destroyed, your applying this specifically to a church Isn't truth, this is all death.

What are you going to do with the "Last Enemy Death" being destroyed, as you believe human life continues beyond 1 Corinthians 15:54?

"Then Cometh The End"?

"Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory"?

Verses 26 & 54 below show the "Last Enemy Death" is destroyed?

1Corinthians 15:23-26 & 51-54KJV
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Ac28]

Since the rapture doesn't apply to anyone living since 63AD, why worry about it? The "appearing" in Paul's last 7 epistles, all written after Acts, is the resurrection that applies to us. Also, it will occur long before the Rapture. Infinitely better than the rapture. Don't confuse the Appearing with the Rapture. Totally different resurrection for a totally different church. The rapture is just what every Bible says it is. At Christ's 2nd Coming, the Parousia, at the 7th trump, the resurrected Acts church Saints go out to meet Christ in the air, return to earth with Him, and are with Him forever. It's impossible for those in the rapture, the Acts church, to be taken to Heaven, since their calling is the New Jerusalem (Gal 4:26), which definitely is not Heaven. It comes down out of Heaven and attaches to the New Earth. The only people in the entire Bible that will spend eternity in Heaven are those in the church found only in Paul's 7 books written after Acts.

Col 3:4 In Ps 8:1, Glory is said to be above the Heavens
"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."

Titus 2:13
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"

Phil 3:20 (NIV)
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

The calling of the Acts church was the New Jerusalem, which isn't Heaven. The Calling of the After Acts church in Heaven as shown above. The Acts church was all-Israel, since the Gentiles in the church were ALL grafted into Israel. The After Acts church, only in Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon, is essentially all Gentile, although any Jew can be a member if he believes 1Cor 15:1-4, Paul's Gospel. Technically, there are no Gentiles today, since Gentiles are non-Israelites and Israel hasn't existed since 63AD, in God's eyes.. Everyone today approaches God as an individual. This is the only time in the Bible that the Gentiles have had any of God's blessings, unless the Gentile became a proselyte or was grafted into Israel's church during Acts.

 

[Philip James]

While obviously we have to dismiss any notion of this applying in any way to a uniting in the flesh,

Why obviuosly?

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You seem to imply something that is works related. That the will of the Father is to prove ourselves. But let's see what Yeshua said was the will of the Father...

John 6:39-40 (NKJV) This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So it is true that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom. The will of the Father is to believe on and trust in Yeshua and for Yeshua to preserve them and lose none.

Actually, that reference is citing what Jesus is to do in regards to the Father's will for Him to do. That reference is not really about what we are to do in regards to the Father's will. The fact that we believe in Him is a result of the Father having drawn us to the Son in revealing the Son to us so we can believe in Him.

But yes, the Father's will for us after having been saved by Jesus Christ is to continue to believe in Him for all things and we need to believe in Him as our Good Shepherd for His help to do even that too.

But the Father ends up on the losing side in one respect. Not everyone will believe and trust in Yeshua even though that is His will.

There is no loss of salvation; even former believers are still His and thus still saved ( 2 Timothy 2:13 ), but are not running that race to be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House at the pre great trib rapture event when God will judge His House first. This is where the consequence of being a castaway comes from as in where and how saints become vessels unto dishonor is when they are left behind to be received later on after the great tribulation. That is why the call to repentance is given out to even former believers in 2 Timothy 2:18-21 to look to Him to help them lay aside every weight & sin in running that race by their confidence in Him to finish that race to His glory. Hebrews 12:1-2

But on the other hand, the Father does see His will accomplished by Yeshua.

John 10:28-30 (NKJV) And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Man, that is security if there ever was such a thing! I visualize two hands tightly clasped together, with the believer tucked inside. Praise His Name! It is not my responsibility to "prove" anything. It is for His name sake that He preserve those who trust in Him. I take my sovereignty over myself and turn it over to Him. It then becomes His responsibility. We all have been given free choice, or sovereignty. We who trust in Him just give that sovereignty back to Him! He then takes the responsibility for us upon Himself.

There is nothing I can do to "prove" anything to the Lord, to maintain my salvation. He already knows me. And for me to try to "prove" anything is suggesting that Yeshua's death, burial, and resurrection were insufficient to preserve me, and that is an insult to the Father who gave up His Son for that purpose..

If one works to prove.... then they may be seeking justification or salvation by works, but if they run that race by faith in Him in seeking to be approved by Him, then they may see that every day in walking in the light is by the grace of God and not just at their salvation.

So let us all hope in the Lord in being our Good Shepherd to finish that race for us as some of us may find ourselves being carried all the way Home.