Lukewarm as Indifference Toward God - He prefers Cold to Indifferent

[Gottservant]

This is similar to the thought that even though God hated Esau, scripture never says that "God did not like Esau".

We quickly assume that God must hate lukewarmness, when in fact He loathes it.

So you are right, there are atheist zealots that are more zealous than believers - it's just that, that doesn't mean God focusses on them.

If you want God to focus on you, have faith!

 

[St. SteVen]

Hello @St. SteVen, I remember being taught that the "hot" and "cold" water spoken of in Revelation 3 did not have the same meaning to those living in the 1st Century as they do to us today (and that makes sense when you consider the fact that the Lord Jesus wished that the people in the Laodicean church where not lukewarm, but either "hot" ~OR~ "cold" instead. IOW, "hot" and "cold" would have both been understood as something that was good back then (something that was useful), especially in Laodicia.

Hey Papa Smurf, Thanks for joining the discussion.

I like what you are saying here. Tracks with some thoughts I have been having along this line.
And I also wonder if God uses this differently to speak to different individuals in different places in their faith walk.

When I shared this topic key verse with my wife, the word "cold" stood out to her as well.
Neither of us had taken notice of it in the past. We had come away with the idea that God wanted HOT instead of lukewarm.
We read right over the COLD aspect.

While reading your post it occurred to me that hot and cold, as it related to food and drink, has different uses.
The usefulness you mentioned. (good call)

When we are hot and thirsty a cold drink is refreshing. And when you are feeling cold, something hot to warm you up.

It might be worthwhile to look at the NT Greek. How are these words defined? - zestos and psychros (see below)



zestos

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2200: ζεστός

ζεστός, ζεστη, ζεστον (ζέω), boiling hot, hot, (Strabo, Appian, (Diogenes Laërtius, others); metaphorically, of fervor of mind and zeal: Revelation 3:15f.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
hot.
From zeo; boiled, i.e. (by implication) calid (figuratively, fervent) -- hot.


psychros

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5593: ψυχρός

ψυχρός, ψυχρα, ψυχρόν (ψύχω, which see), from Homer down, cold, cool: neuter of cold water, ποτηρτιον, ψυχροῦ, Matthew 10:42 ((ψύχρω λουνται, Herodotus 2, 37); ψυχρόν πίνειν, Epict ench. 29, 2; πλύνεσθαι ψύχρω, diss. 4, 11, 19; cf. Winers Grammar, 591 (550)); metaphorically, like the Latinfrigidus, cold i. e. sluggish, inert, in mind (ψυχρός τήν ὀυργην, Lucian, Tim. 2): of one destitute of warm Christian faith and the desire for holiness, Revelation 3:15f.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
cold.
From psuchos; chilly (literally or figuratively) -- cold.

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[St. SteVen]

If you want God to focus on you, have faith!

What sort of sheep does the Good Shepherd go after?

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[St. SteVen]

Pew polishers beware.
Your religion is not pleasing to God.

If all you are doing is polishing a pew once a week with your backside, God notices.
And if you think mindlessly going through the motions is enough, think again.

Are you content with Group Think?
Do you think flying under the radar will get you where you want to go?

Are you lukewarm?



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[O'Darby]

Hey Papa Smurf, Thanks for joining the discussion.

I like what you are saying here. Tracks with some thoughts I have been having along this line.
And I also wonder if God uses this differently to speak to different individuals in different places in their faith walk.

The "How would readers have understood this at the time?" approach is certainly legitimate. On the other hand, the apocalyptic genre is scarcely literalistic - quite the opposite. Every poet and playwright knows the phenomenon of readers finding multiple deep meanings that he never intended and never had in mind. Often a poet will say, "Wow, that's GREAT - never occurred to me!" So Pastor O'Darby prefers an interpretation that gives the passage a little deeper meaning than "Cold water can be good, too."

 

[St. SteVen]

The "How would readers have understood this at the time?" approach is certainly legitimate.

Yes.
Our modern day sense of hot and cold has more range. Especially the cold aspect.
Drinking water can't be any hotter than boiling. (too hot to drink)

But the iced beverages we enjoy today were unheard of in biblical times. ???
Snow was probably their closest comparative.
WAIT... I take that back. A quick Bible search for "ice" yielded these gems.

• Job 6:16
  when darkened by thawing ice and swollen with melting snow,
  
  
• Job 37:10
  The breath of God produces ice, and the broad waters become frozen.
  
  
• Job 38:29
  From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

Every poet and playwright knows the phenomenon of readers finding multiple deep meanings that he never intended and never had in mind. Often a poet will say, "Wow, that's GREAT - never occurred to me!"

Ah yes... what was the authors intent? Valid question.
A singular thing? Or did he intend to use it differently with each individual?

How many had walked past the Potter's house when Jeremiah was sent there.
Jeremiah was the only one to get the message. See Jeremiah chapter eighteen.

So Pastor O'Darby prefers an interpretation that gives the passage a little deeper meaning than "Cold water can be good, too."

Fair enough. Please continue. Thanks.

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