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Mainstream churches

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Joyful, Feb 10, 2007.

  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Goodnite faithful pleasent dreams:)
     
  2. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    Goodnite faithful pleasent dreams:)
    thank you Kriss, I had a good night sleep.[​IMG]
     
  3. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    But we are not talking about missionaries and our personal duties. You are taking it to a National military level.
    I am talking about overall discipleship and servanthood, kriss. I always have the Bible in my when I post.
    What I am saying is you take it to far when you condem the military.
    Jesus is extreme, remember? He is hot and cold.
    Because that Goes against other scriptures.God has not yet told us to beat our spears into plowshears yet thats what you are saying.
    We should always have peaceful paradice in mind when we interpret the Bible. We can argue all day long about the Scpriture and never make any progress. Jesus' followers should give the world idear what we are aiming for and look forward to. We should not cooperate anyone, any authorities, any leaders who are showing ungodly practices. The military is cleary hypocritcial idea for His purpose of peaceful paradice.
    God also tells us nothing to excess and thats what you are doing taking Christs words to the excess of condeming the military and the nations. You can not take Christs words to the extreme of judgeing something God clearly states he will use as he sees fit. You are not separating what is Gods to control and what is yours
    I am sorry you feel this way. Everyone has right to express their convictions and I am only expressing mine. what I am learning from the Bible and my real experiences convincing me that the supporting the military and joining is committing a grave sin against YHWH and Jesus as a whole in the mainstreams.I believe the military is suported so stongly by the nation becaseu it is such a big business. So many people are relying on the military for their family, and rich people will be in deep trouble without the military and war.Jesus' warriors should not have this kind of mentality if we have faith to trust God and Jesus.I know that my convictions will be ignored by the most but I feel it is my duty for the Lord to express everything I am learning and have experienced in my life.In Jesus' love, hitomiPS, I see many of you are from Texas, I am from Texas too. I hope you guys come and visit us some time. I live in suberve(sp) of San Antonio. please PM me if you are interested to visit us. I can give you my phone# if you like.[​IMG] And please forgive me for not joining chatting. I have been reading it but don't feel the time to join the chat room. I am just grateful that you guys accepting me in this forum. (My chores are waiting for me all the time.):confused:
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I agree with much you say,but so much of that is politics I don't know how you jump from that to condeming anyone that joins the military. What is the difference between the military and police force? ones local and ones nationalI understand you dont like the way its run but that is a sign of the times there is coruption everywhere. But whether you like it or not if a country dosent have a military presence what stops Russia or N.korea or any other country from invading us? God has called some to minister,some to be kings and some to be warriors. I just can not see where you get from being displeased at the politics and coruption to it being against God to join the military that is my only issue.If one feels its his duty to protect his country so you and I can to as we are called. I dont see how you can think that against God.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    dosent it basically come down to reconcilling the verses belowExd 15:3 The LORD [is] a man of war: the LORD [is] his nameJoel 3:9Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack. Jesus' teaching of "Love your enemy"? How do you apply one over the other? How do you make sense out of both these opposing ideas?
     
  6. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    I agree with much you say,but so much of that is politics I don't know how you jump from that to condeming anyone that joins the military. What is the difference between the military and police force?
    I would not join police force either.
    ones local and ones nationalI understand you dont like the way its run but that is a sign of the times there is coruption everywhere.
    That does not mean we join them.
    But whether you like it or not if a country dosent have a military presence what stops Russia or N.korea or any other country from invading us?
    I believe God wants the world to control this wicked world. Besides, there are plenty of ungodly people who can try to solve the world's conflicts by warring with each other. Christians do not have to join them: they have to follow Christ, and He says love your enemy.
    God has called some to minister,some to be kings and some to be warriors. I just can not see where you get from being displeased at the politics and coruption to it being against God to join the military that is my only issue.
    It is very clear to me that the violent occupation is not Jesus followers' jobs to accept. All of His followers are called to be peace makers.
    If one feels its his duty to protect his country so you and I can to as we are called. I dont see how you can think that against God.
    I have been reading the Bible diligently and am convicted to spread my findings: we should follow God before man. Where is your Scriptural proof to what you just said?
     
  7. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    dosent it basically come down to reconcilling the verses belowExd 15:3 The LORD [is] a man of war: the LORD [is] his nameJoel 3:9Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack. Jesus' teaching of "Love your enemy"? How do you apply one over the other? How do you make sense out of both these opposing ideas?
    Those fights are Satan against Jesus. It is all about Spirtual war. You are fogetting that God wants all of us to learn to love one another. If we are fighting and killing each other like the rest of the world how can we be the messengers of God? The answer is that we cannot. It is that simple.
     
  8. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I think you are both right and wrong yes there is spiritual warfare there is also literal warfare many of the hero's of the bible were described as great warriors David (the very line of Christ) who killed Goliath when he was young.Josuha just to name a couple. Gods people were told on numerous occasions to go to war against Gods enemies God has and will always expect us to go to literal war when he calls and we need physical armies to do so. He also as you say expects us to wage spiritual war by staying in his word and following the way of Christ. I believe each has his calling some to minister and some to warrior. I will not sit in judgement of those who are called to be warriors for whether we like it or not in this age the sword isnot beat into a plowshare. And we can not stick our head in the sand and deny this because we would like it to be different. I hate war but God needs to complete his plan and that requires armies. Satan will soon be here in the flesh and God needs both flesh and spiritual warriors to battle him.So we just have to agree to disagree on this. We have both stated our points and it has been a good debate for both sides so the reader will have to decide
     
  9. Jesus Is Real

    Jesus Is Real New Member

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    Interesting thread. Hi Faithful1! [​IMG]In patience you shall possess your souls. - Jesus Christ our Lord
     
  10. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    While I won't state that much...If war is truly based on the love of money, (I Timothy 6:10) then I think that military is not a very smart way to go to and join them...as there is nothing good about it. It is nothing but wretched food. Like we said, we don't know people's heart. It may or may not be true.If war is not truly based on money, and we are all dying (ensample) and we need to defend our loved ones and possisbly the country from evil (one's that love war) then I believed it is a justified war. That God will turn back war. (Jeremiah 21:4) Taking a thought looking at both ways. The way I see it... I will not support militaries, but at the same time, I rather defend my love ones. Evil needs to end as we are losing our God-Given Freedom. Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
     
  11. Jesus Is Real

    Jesus Is Real New Member

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    thesuperjag, Indeed,.....if we "Christian's" repent or our own selfish ways, Christ Jesus won't have to in righteousness judge and make war against "us" in the Wrath of Almightly God when He comes back as He will smite the Nations.
     
  12. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    While I won't state that much...If war is truly based on the love of money, (I Timothy 6:10) then I think that military is not a very smart way to go to and join them...as there is nothing good about it. It is nothing but wretched food. Like we said, we don't know people's heart. It may or may not be true.
    It is very obvious that nothing good comes out of any war, period, jag.
    If war is not truly based on money, and we are all dying (ensample) and we need to defend our loved ones and possisbly the country from evil (one's that love war) then I believed it is a justified war. That God will turn back war. (Jeremiah 21:4)
    There is no justified war in this world. This world is controlled by satan. God gave him persmission to rule this world because he questioned God. Satan thought he can do better job than God. And as you can see clearly he is failling miserably.
    Taking a thought looking at both ways. The way I see it... I will not support militaries, but at the same time, I rather defend my love ones. Evil needs to end as we are losing our God-Given Freedom.
    I have strong enough faith to trust God that everything will be alright no matter what. Jesus says to love our enemy, and helping our nation to kill our enemy is not the way to do it as Jusus' followers. It simply is a bad witnesses as His ambassadors.
     
  13. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    I think you are both right and wrong yes there is spiritual warfare there is also literal warfare many of the hero's of the bible were described as great warriors David (the very line of Christ) who killed Goliath when he was young.
    We have to be very careful to use those kind of stories as excuses to justify our killing our enemy.
    Josuha just to name a couple. Gods people were told on numerous occasions to go to war against Gods enemies God has and will always expect us to go to literal war when he calls and we need physical armies to do so.
    the same as the above.
    He also as you say expects us to wage spiritual war by staying in his word and following the way of Christ. I believe each has his calling some to minister and some to warrior.
    Like I have been saying, we all have our duties for God. I am convicted to expose my convictions.
    I will not sit in judgement of those who are called to be warriors for whether we like it or not in this age the sword isnot beat into a plowshare.
    Noone should do it if one is not convicted.
    And we can not stick our head in the sand and deny this because we would like it to be different. I hate war but God needs to complete his plan and that requires armies. Satan will soon be here in the flesh and God needs both flesh and spiritual warriors to battle him.
    Satan is here alive and well powerfully to deceive people to worship him instead of God and Jesus in milions ways.
    So we just have to agree to disagree on this. We have both stated our points and it has been a good debate for both sides so the reader will have to decide
    I agree. Thank you everyone for perticipating in this thread. The Judge is Jesus; it is up to Him now.[​IMG]
     
  14. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Faithful1I just wanted to tell you that I think you are good Christian and you make alot of Good points. I have spent a couple days thinking and praying on them.I do try to live my live by Jesus words of "love your Enemy" so I felt I owed you and myself some thought on this. However I keep coming back to the same thing. If you take all Christians and therefore Gods laws out of any organization whether it be military,(national)Police force(local) or even your household. What do you have left? Nazi,Al quadea, groups of thugs with guns and no morals, running around enforcing laws how ever they see fit. I can't believe that God wants us to sit around and watch the police or military with no morals take advantage of the poor and weak while we sit there and pray and tell them we love them. I think God gave us a knowledge of right and wrong, the law, and a sense of morals to put them into action when necessary. Anyway you don't have to reply I mostly just wanted to tell you that I appreciated your points of view and making me really think about this.
     
  15. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Faithful1I just wanted to tell you that I think you are good Christian and you make alot of Good points. I have spent a couple days thinking and praying on them.I do try to live my live by Jesus words of "love your Enemy" so I felt I owed you and myself some thought on this. However I keep coming back to the same thing. If you take all Christians and therefore Gods laws out of any organization whether it be military,(national)Police force(local) or even your household. What do you have left? Nazi,Al quadea, groups of thugs with guns and no morals, running around enforcing laws how ever they see fit. I can't believe that God wants us to sit around and watch the police or military with no morals take advantage of the poor and weak while we sit there and pray and tell them we love them. I think God gave us a knowledge of right and wrong, the law, and a sense of morals to put them into action when necessary. Anyway you don't have to reply I mostly just wanted to tell you that I appreciated your points of view and making me really think about this.
    Kriss, I think this Bible verse comes into play. Matthew 5:39 - But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.Let us say that I got punched and fell on the ground. I decided to get up and not to fight back and see if s/he wants forgiveness...If s/he does great...If not, oh well, than s/he came over to beat me up some more...a continuously being attacked, then I believe now it's the time to defend yourself. That's why I think that Bible verse comes into play.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.P.S. Hitomi, I think too you indeed are a good Christian...made some very good points. [​IMG]
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I agree Jag we are supposed to be slow to anger,turn the other cheek but if we just let the person beat us do death are we not guilty of causing that person to commit murder because we didnt do all we could to defend ourselves? I also think we are ignoring repentance here if you had to go to war and kill someone and you repented from your heart for having to do this thing God says it is forgiven. So how do we justify taking the only good (God)out of any organization. And claim we do this to set a good example. These ungodly people left in the organization wouldnt care as all good(God) would be absent
     
  17. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    However I keep coming back to the same thing. If you take all Christians and therefore Gods laws out of any organization whether it be military,(national)Police force(local) or even your household. What do you have left?
    I have faith that my family and I can handle anything with God whatever the circumstances.
    Nazi,Al quadea, groups of thugs with guns and no morals, running around enforcing laws how ever they see fit.
    There are pleny of worldly people to handle them. This world is satan's and not Jesus' followers'.
    I can't believe that God wants us to sit around and watch the police or military with no morals take advantage of the poor and weak while we sit there and pray and tell them we love them.
    I don't just sit and pray, I have plenty of jobs God gave me. Besides, that doesn't mean I'm supposed to ignore Jesus' command and kill people who aren't following Him, does it?
    I think God gave us a knowledge of right and wrong, the law, and a sense of morals to put them into action when necessary.
    I have been using God's law to live by everyday, and I don't interpret Jesus' message to mean that I can "take actions" like killing people who disagree with my morals.
    Anyway you don't have to reply I mostly just wanted to tell you that I appreciated your points of view and making me really think about this.
    I am sorry I already did, and thank you for your addition.
     
  18. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    Let us say that I got punched and fell on the ground. I decided to get up and not to fight back and see if s/he wants forgiveness...If s/he does great...If not, oh well, than s/he came over to beat me up some more...a continuously being attacked, then I believe now it's the time to defend yourself. That's why I think that Bible verse comes into play.
    Why do you just let people beat you up? You can run, you know? Jesus and His disciples ran away from their enemy many, many times.
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Jordan)
    Let us say that I got punched and fell on the ground. I decided to get up and not to fight back and see if s/he wants forgiveness...If s/he does great...If not, oh well, than s/he came over to beat me up some more...a continuously being attacked, then I believe now it's the time to defend yourself. That's why I think that Bible verse comes into play.
    (Faithful1)
    Why do you just let people beat you up? You can run, you know? Jesus and His disciples ran away from their enemy many, many times.
    Ever heard of a made up story, I was giving an ensample, Faithful1. Some middle school kid back in my days did kicked the desk and slam it to my left elbow in 7th grade. One year later that same kid laser pen right in my eye tried to blind me. Now that's a true story.P.S. Publick school is evil.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
     
  20. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I agree Jag we are supposed to be slow to anger,turn the other cheek but if we just let the person beat us do death are we not guilty of causing that person to commit murder because we didnt do all we could to defend ourselves?
    If we let them murder our family, of course we are guilty of it. And we should be, because we let evil people rein supreme because we let evil win instead of defending our family, friends etc.. And I say unto thee, God is not happy about that.(Kriss)
    I also think we are ignoring repentance here if you had to go to war and kill someone and you repented from your heart for having to do this thing God says it is forgiven.
    Of course, we have the ability to repent because of our Lord Jesus Christ...if it wasn't for Him, we would have to first find a lamb without blemish.(Kriss)
    So how do we justify taking the only good (God)out of any organization. And claim we do this to set a good example. These ungodly people left in the organization wouldnt care as all good(God) would be absent
    Without God's help (having Jesus in our hearts), how can we do good? We simply can't.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
     
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