1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Mainstream churches

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Joyful, Feb 10, 2007.

  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    71
    (Faithful1;10512)
    Kriss,Why do you think Jesus is telling us to love our enemy? You are right, we will not have peace in this world but Jesus still wants His followers to be peace makers though. We cannot be peace makers if we are doing to the same thing as the rest of the world.
    Because thats what he wants us to do,he doesnt want us going out and making war with everyone we disagree with for know good reason but we can not know the mind of God,or second guess who he decides to war against. Love does not always mean sweetness and light. It often means correction, or punishment to teach what is important. Do you not punish your children because you love them?I know to us in the flesh death is a dreaded punishment.But it is not to God. If he has to cause the death of the body to save the soul he will. To God this no more punishment then you telling your child they are coming home whether they like it or not.Are we do strive to be peacemakers yes, we are to turn the other cheek, practice forgiveness.Yes. We are supposed to hate war.Yes. Hating war is to be Christain. God says he hates those who love war. But hating something does not make it against God if he wills it. I hate doing laundry but its nessary:) The bible gives us lessons on how to live our lives everyday,true.But it also has a whole other part that is about Gods plan and how he controlls all kings of all Nations How he causes/allows men to war he uses war for correction,to teach us.he uses it to futher his plan. God has declared there will be war and he is in control we have to have enough faith to trust that even though we hate the war he knows what he is doing.Ezekiel 26:3therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves.Ezekiel 32:9I will trouble the hearts of many peoples when I bring about your destruction among the nations, among lands you have not known.Jeremiah 51:28Prepare the nations for battle against her— the kings of the Medes, their governors and all their officials, and all the countries they rule.God has used war sense the begining, he always has ,always will till this age ends.Who are we to second guess him,because it grieves us?
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    4
    Kriss, thou art so right in that. Every child of God should hate war. That is 100% pure fact. If there was no defending people on war while hating war...well...we lose...but God forbids it. Even though we hate killing people, it needs to be done for corrections otherwise, mankind will get even crazier. Then the question to that if that happen is "What is the meaning of life?"Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
     
  3. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    (thesuperjag;10514)
    Faithful1, we can still love everyone especially the enemies...But however, should the sons/daughters of darkness kill every single Jewish and Gentile Christians by laying down and do nothing and let the evil win? (sons/daughters of God) God forbid...as God is no quitter.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
    God does not play favoritism, he wants us to apply all His teachings to everyone even (including) our enemy.We should show our strong faith to believe in Him no matter what. Jesus is telling us to be salt and light in the world; the military is the worst witnessing as Christians because we are God's ambassadors. Jesus' most noble teaching is "love your enemy", and we should practice by not joining the military. If we don't practice this teaching we are no different from the rest of the world.
     
  4. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    Because thats what he wants us to do,he doesnt want us going out and making war with everyone we disagree with for know good reason but we can not know the mind of God,or second guess who he decides to war against.
    so you are saying it is ok to join and kill our enemy even though Jesus is telling us to love our enemy? Does that really make sense? Love our enemy by killing them?
    Love does not always mean sweetness and light. It often means correction, or punishment to teach what is important. Do you not punish your children because you love them?
    No one has right to kill anyone. I don't punish my children by killing them when they do wrong.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    71
    faithful Again love does not mean without judgement or correction. God also hates cowards. If you think Gods admires or calls those that let his enemys destroy his children the light of the world you are mistaken. Jeremiah 30:11I am with you and will save you,' declares the LORD. 'Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you. I will discipline you but only with justice; I will not let you go entirely unpunished
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    4
    (Faithful1;10523)
    God does not play favoritism, he wants us to apply all His teachings to everyone even (including) our enemy.We should show our strong faith to believe in Him no matter what. Jesus is telling us to be salt and light in the world; the military is the worst witnessing as Christians because we are God's ambassadors. Jesus' most noble teaching is "love your enemy", and we should practice by not joining the military. If we don't practice this teaching we are no different from the rest of the world.
    Ah yes, you are right that God is not the respecter of persons. (Acts 10:34) That's true that we should indeed be strong in faith in Him regardless of the situation. Yes we are salt and light of the world...we lose the saltiness if we leave Him. That is true that we are no better than the world if we don't practice. However, while I never said I supported military...We are no better than the world if we don't let God correct us by using war. We hate war but it needs to be done. Evil is gone more crazier than you think Faithful1. Do you not realized that God destroys the wicked? Do you think that God wants you to defend a child is so abused by evil?
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    71
    (Faithful1;10524)
    so you are saying it is ok to join and kill our enemy even though Jesus is telling us to love our enemy? Does that really make sense? Love our enemy by killing them?No one has right to kill anyone. I don't punish my children by killing them when they do wrong.
    You are forgetting that God is in control of the nations and war. You are second guessing God. of course you dont punish your children by killing them but you are not God. and God values the soul not the body
     
  8. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    71
    faithful1I know we will never agree on this subject and I have no issuse with your personal opinions as Ive have said. What I do have issue with is you are taking a teaching of Christ and using it out of context and without reasoning to support your personal views. There are hundreds of scriptures in the bible that contradict how you are using Christ teachings, against war. I have given you but a few.I do not wish to debate you this as it has already been done but I stand by what I have said
     
  9. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    (kriss;10527)
    You are forgetting that God is in control of the nations and war.
    Satan is in control of this world.
    You are second guessing God. of course you dont punish your children by killing them but you are not God. and God values the soul not the body
    What do you mean by second quessing? You are the one who asked if I punish kids. God definitely values our body, too. We are not saving any soul by killing our enemy, Kriss.
     
  10. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    (kriss;10530)
    faithful1I know we will never agree on this subject and I have no issuse with your personal opinions as Ive have said. What I do have issue with is you are taking a teaching of Christ and using it out of context and without reasoning to support your personal views.
    I brought Jesus teaching of "love your enemy". It definitely in the bible. How am I out of context?
    There are hundreds of scriptures in the bible that contradict how you are using Christ teachings, against war.
    The Bible can be used any way we want and Jesus' teaching of "Love your enemy" cannot be misinterpreted because it is so simple and clear.
    I have given you but a few.I do not wish to debate you this as it has already been done but I stand by what I have said
    I hope you give serious thought about how supporting the military damages reaching out to the world. It sure is not helping at all. We should always keep our evangelistic point of view, then we cannot go wrong.I believe Jesus is very sad that His people are killing their enemy ignoring His teaching.
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    71
    One question faithful how is anyone going to be the light of the world if you have no military to defend your right of speech and freedom to speak it ?There is only one way and that is Gods protection and he tells you a hundreds of times he does this through war with power of the sword and the military.So it seems you back yourself into a corner with your veiw of either denying Gods words or you are misunderstanding/using how Jesus meant his teaching to be used.It cant be both ways. And there are no contradictions in Gods word.
     
  12. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    4
    Faithful1I'm going to ask you a question(s). K?1. A person at your house came in and sexually assult your child... would youa. Let that person continuing doing that, never stop or b. Fight back to save your child from being sexually assulted.2. If someone was beating up your friend? would youa. Let that person continuing doing that til he/she diesb. Fight back and save your friend from dying!Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.P.S. Please answer as I'm very concerned about you.
     
  13. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    (thesuperjag;10536)
    Faithful1I'm going to ask you a question(s). K?
    ok
    1. A person at your house came in and sexually assult your child... would youa. Let that person continuing doing that, never stop or b. Fight back to save your child from being sexually assulted.
    I do my best to stop it but would not kill him; Actually I cannot harm anyone; it is physically impossible. I trust God will give me discernment what to do in this kind of situation without harming anyone. This is my faith, Jag.
    2. If someone was beating up your friend? would youa. Let that person continuing doing that til he/she diesb. Fight back and save your friend from dying!
    the same as the above.
    Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.P.S. Please answer as I'm very concerned about you.
    thank you for your concern, I am concerned about you too:)
     
  14. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    (kriss;10535)
    One question faithful how is anyone going to be the light of the world if you have no military to defend your right of speech and freedom to speak it ?
    disciples in oppressed countries are doing it in inspite of their enemies many attacks. with God anything is possible. This is Jesus' promise.
    There is only one way and that is Gods protection and he tells you a hundreds of times he does this through war with power of the sword and the military.
    Jesus disciples' weapon is the bible. The bible helps His followers go through any kind of predicament. God is powerful in oppressed conditions.
    So it seems you back yourself into a corner with your veiw of either denying Gods words or you are misunderstanding/using how Jesus meant his teaching to be used.
    So Kriss, you are going to deny Jesus' teaching of "Love your enemy"? Isn't this picking and choosing?
    It cant be both ways. And there are no contradictions in Gods word.
    That's right; there is no contradictions. Jesus says to love our enemy and we ought to obey Him.PS, Love your enemy is in Luke 6:35 and Matthew 5:44
     
  15. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    Luke 6:35 (New International Version) 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
     
  16. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    (Faithful1;10538)
    I do my best to stop it but would not kill him; Actually I cannot harm anyone; it is physically impossible. I trust God will give me discernment what to do in this kind of situation without harming anyone. This is my faith, Jag.
    To me, this is not so inexplicable. I understand how a person could respond with a peaceful response when violence is done to themselves or others.
     
  17. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    4
    I suppose this would help you too Faithful1.Luke 3:14 - And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages. This came from the KJV.It is so different compared to NIV and NLT...Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.Love you Faithful1. [​IMG]P.S. That's right, love your enemies is indeed Matthew 5:44 and Luke 6:35
     
  18. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    (thesuperjag;10543)
    I suppose this would help you too Faithful1.Luke 3:14 - And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages. This came from the KJV.It is so different compared to NIV and NLT...Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.Love you Faithful1. [​IMG]P.S. That's right, love your enemies is indeed Matthew 5:44 and Luke 6:35
    Jag thanks for your version but it does not make much of difference.love you too, jag
     
  19. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    71
    You are right people in oppressed countries do spread his word. Im not saying otherwise, nor am I saying Jesus dosent teach us that. Nor am I saying we should not strive to live our daily lives in the way Jesus states. But we are not talking about missionaries and our personal duties. You are taking it to a National military level.What I am saying is you take it to far when you condem the military. Because that Goes against other scriptures.God has not yet told us to beat our spears into plowshears yet thats what you are saying. God also tells us nothing to excess and thats what you are doing taking Christs words to the excess of condeming the military and the nations. You can not take Christs words to the extreme of judgeing something God clearly states he will use as he sees fit. You are not separating what is Gods to control and what is yours
     
  20. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    I will respond tomorrow, it is way past my bed time. thanks everyone.[​IMG]
     
Loading...