Man has a part in his salvation=things to do, believe and say.
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(I think this was/is a question towards me)
God is not a respecter of persons. God doesn't have a special class of people whom he forcefully inserts a "you must accept me!" brainwashing chip (whom end up going to Heaven) and not inserting that same chip into others (and hence forcing them to Hell).
Rather, through the Holy Spirit, God testifies of His Truth to each and every person. Some choose to accept, some choose to reject.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
God gave men their free will. They can use it.
Again, God never forces anything.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
@Dave L, you are way off base here as on many other points.
We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:1-2).
Faith is the key that unlocks the door to the room called "grace."
'nuff said!
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
So you are Calvinists.
Calvinist preach total depravity. That no one can come to God unless he predestine them to come. Which is totally false.
When Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of good and evil God put in them and mankind the law of conscience. That means a recognition of the basic good and evil.
God would not of wasted his time doing that if man was incapable of being impacted by the law.
He also gave mankind the ability to reason and ration via logic.
Christ came and died for all mankind, not just those God ordained to be saved. But he requires everyone to choose him in free will or reject him in free will.
God said he doesn't want anybody to be lost, which is a lie if he predestine some to be lost.
God says none will stand before him at the White throne judgment and have an excuse for being condemned to eternity the lake. Having no free will to choose him most assuredly is a valid reason.
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is when one ceases to listen to the Holy Spirit speaking to them. Why would he speak to anybody who's already predestine for damnation?
Yes we are born with sin nature's. But that inner conflict in us between the law, the Holy Spirit and our sin nature's drives one to choose God or reject him.
Romans 8 says God knows those who would love and he will predestine them all the way to glorification. It does not say God predestined only someone to love him.
Did God by here?
1 Timothy 2:4 New International Version (NIV)
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Or here?
Ezekiel 33:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?
What about here?
Matthew 22:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
Guide foreknew who would love him and called them to him. Then he predestined,
The predestination comes after four knowledge.
Romans 8:28-29 New International Version (NIV)
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
Calvinism is blatantly wrong and make Scott out to be a liar.
@CoreIssue,
What is your take on
Jhn 15:16, Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
What is your take on
Jhn 15:16, Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
You cannot read one verse in isolation from the rest of the Bible and try to understand what the Bible says on the topic.
Such as Romans 8 says God foreknew who would love to and he chose them predestined them all the way to glorification.
Nothing in this verse is in contradiction to Romans 8.
Those he foreknew would come to him he chose and ordained.
There is no way insert Calvinism in this without making the Bible contradictory and God a liar.
Yet it is saying that we didn't choose God...and therefore predestination isn't about God foreknowing what choice we would make...God chose us...that means that it was entirely predetermined by the Lord who He would save (Romans 8:30) and who He would ordain to condemnation (Jude 1:3-4).
Your answer?
Had you included Romans 8:29 in your quotation, you would have seen that predestination is NOT for salvation but for the perfection of the saved.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
What does this mean? What is the *image of His Son*?
Just as Jesus is *the express image* of God the Father, every believer will be transformed into the express image of Christ at the Resurrection/Rapture. When Paul says "We shall all be changed", it literally means that all the saints who are still sinful, weak, and mortal, with all our human limitations, will be glorified and perfected to resemble Christ as He presently is. That is also what John says in his epistle.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
It is impossible that predestination is for salvation, since Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and God desires the salvation of all men. There are multiple Scriptures to support this. It is pure human arrogance that causes men to believe that God chooses some for salvation and others for damnation. This idea is around because the sovereignty of God has been totally distorted into a mockery.
You still make salvation a work of the flesh for the self-righteous, and not a supernatural work of grace for those who otherwise could not believe.
It still comes down to your thinking salvation is only for the self-righteous. Who from their own goodness choose God, and share in his glory because they're so nice. When the reality is, God saves helpless sinners who cannot believe or do any good in and of themselves. And they love him so much for doing this for them, they live holy lives in appreciation.
If you experience Christ, you cannot choose "not to believe" any more than you can choose not to believe you are sitting in the chair you are sitting in.
Millions sit in church each week but still reject Jesus as their Lord and Savior===they just "play" church!!!
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
That’s the only way to view Paul. Just like me Jesus was not on his radar.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
The true experience of Christ is a revelation of who you are and are not.
Don't try to tell me what I believe!!! Even the poor old drunk laying in the gutter can choose to call on God and receive forgiveness, love, help and salvation!!
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