Many Are Called But Few Chosen = Matthew 22;1-10

[brightfame52]

Wow, another one that doesn't know God's Word, let alone the gospel of Jesus Christ. brightfame52, I'm surprised at you.

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Do you realize all deserve to go to hell for sinning against God ?

 

[brightfame52]

True, which is only to transgressors who would repent for Jesus' sake, and be converted for remission of past sinning.

However, not all men repenting is given by God, because it's for a corruptible crown of their own purposes, whether for health, success, religion, law, etc... And such repentance is only in part enough to achieve their personal goals.

And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Only we who repent of all our sinning for Jesus' sake, have our repentance granted and given by God, unto salvation and deliverance from sinning with a whole new heart and life of God in Christ Jesus.




And so we see the repentance that God grants, is unto His everlasting life and His incorruptible crown.

It also confirms the incorruptible gospel of repentance unto salvation and life.

It is the opposite of the corruptible gospel of salvation and life 'unto repentance'. Which, as is all religions of man, only in part.

All who preach their own gospel of salvation unto repentance, also declare they never repent of all their transgressions to sin not. It's forever gradual to sin less than before, but never ends up obeying the commandment of God to repent of all our transgressions.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is to repent of all sins and trespasses at once, for Jesus' sake, unto His salvation from sinning and everlasting life in the Father and the Son.

The incorruptible gospel produces the uncorrupted heart and life walking with Jesus. The corruptible gospel only produces another corrupt religion of man walking in the flesh more or less, by the old same heart of lust.

When God or Christ regenerates a person, they are given repentance.

 

[brightfame52]

Very true. God does the commanding, and we do the obeying.

Those who pretend that God and Jesus does their repenting for them, is trying to give Him the glory with false humility.

And those who say we only repent when God 'showers' us with grace, are just giving lip-service to God, when only repenting in their own good time and pleasure.

The corrupted gospel of salvation unto gradual repentance (Never wholly repented from sinning), is unrepentant man's demand for God to first save them by their own faith alone, and only then will they consent to follow up with some convenient repenting on their part.

That's the pretentious and proud counter-offer gospel of conditional surrender to the victorious resurrected Lord. It's not the unconditional gospel offer of immediate and full surrender now for mercy's sake, which is not later at one's own leisure, and only in part.

The conditional surrender gospel of unrepented transgressors, is the real salvation made by man's own will.

That's not us who obey the commandment to repent of all our sinning, that we may find mercy we the all-victorious Lord Jesus Christ.

When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of.

We can obey only after we are saved and given the Gift to obey, otherwise man can't obey since naturally hes a child of disobedience.

 

[Ghada]

Im not here to talk about me or you, but to lift up the Name of Jesus, who gives His chosen repentance as their Saviour Acts 5:31

I gave you the chance to prove the worth of your gospel, but you bail, while playing lip-service of praise to boot.

And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell.

What' you've done here is to fail to stand up for your own gospel.

You want to preach a gospel of your own, without showing it's practical results. You do so, in order avoid proving it has nothing to do with the gospel commandment of God in the Bible.

The answer is the same as all who preach your gospel of 'salvation unto repentance': you never repent of all transgressions according to God's commandment.

I was more than wiling to accept your confession of now repenting of all your transgressions, and declare by it, that your gospel does work in practice to keep God's commandments.

Instead of an honest answer for your gospel, you just go all praisy. Next I'll be hearing how you just love to 'celebrate' grace too.

Now why are you here on a public forum asking about peoples private life ?

You perfectly know why, which is why you dodge the answer. To prove whether your gospel is worth believing in and practicing, or not.

For the religious that want to justify their continued transgressions, it's common place.

But, for the righteous that repent of all our transgressions, it's just more of the same ol' same ol' unrepented sinners' religion saved by believing it alone.

You're more than welcome to it and your sinner's life lived by it. I won't be repenting of repenting of all sinning at once, in order to continue partial repentance and sinning unto the grave.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of...

 

[Ghada]

What is your point?

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

The commandment of God is to repent of all sinning, in order to receive His new heart of Christ.

The opposing argument is to receive the new heart first, before any repentance.

Therefore, the practical question is of that gospel ever produces keeping God's commandment to repent of all sinning in the first place. Or, does it not.

So far, not. And with many such gospel believers, the answer is certainly not, since such 'new-hearted' Christians declare it impossible, after the fact.

We see now why God does not put any trust in unrepented sinful man.

 

[Ghada]

It is those who believe in a God that chooses some to go to hell that believe doctrines of demons.

Interesting. This is true since they also judge the salvation of others by their own standards.

I actually believe Calvin came up with all this in trying to answer the unanswerable question of life.

Why do some people not repent and believe unto salvation? Why do some unrepentant sinners go to the grave and their own destruction? I.e. why are some people so suicidal with the soul? Simple unbelief doesn't explain it, since even unbelievers know that repenting of evil works is good to do.

Afterall, the whole predeterminism junk is all about why some do and why some don't. Calvin simply didn't want to believe it's just the result of having free will. Because that would indeed mean that the true God that is love, takes a risk in doing so. He loves all His creatures He creates, and creating some with free will risks losing them to their own will. But isn't that the nature of true love? It is.

The point is that God Himself doesn't even understand it:

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

It proves that man should not try to answer questions by our own wisdom and thinking, that God does not provide. It degrades into man's own doctrines, that are not of God at best, and against God Himself at worst.

God doesn't need man to defend Him, nor to 'figure out' why man that opposes Him. The truth of God is not 'searched out' by wisdom of man, but is only believed and done by revelation of God's own words in His Book.

 

[Ghada]

Romans 10:17 is first. We are not saved and then repent! That sounds like Calvinism.

Now this is a great observation and makes perfect sense, and we see that predeterminism is being preached with it.

I hadn't seen it before, but it fits with their notion of 'finding out' they are the prechosen, and so therefore need to start acting like it!

Which is all they do, since they never just repent of all their sinning as commanded by God in the first place.

Very good point. I'll remember it.

 

[Ghada]

A godly sorrow comes from a godly source,

This is certainly a fair point. I accept it.

a new godly heart.

This however is not necessarily true. Some have repented by God's will for the right reason, but it did not mean they now had a whole new godly heart of Christ.

Nebuchadnezzar is an example.
But if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?

Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

A person has to have been regenerated and given a new godly heart to repent in salvation.

Well, now you've moved in a direction I can agree with Biblically. At least in the words, you now have repentance and salvation in the right word order, as the Bible always does.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

And honestly, I can Biblically agree with repent in salvation more than unto salvation, which always sounded bothersome to me, as though there were some timeline separation between repenting of sinning and God saving the soul. Just as there is no temporal timeline between believing God with a whole heart and doing His will.

We don't repent with salvation following later, nor are salved with repentance following later...

The Spirit of God is quick and powerful and ever-ready to save the soul and enter into a whole new heart of Christ. He's as the mighty rushing wind seeking to enter into a darkened deadly dungeon. But not through any keyholes like the air. He is a Person who will only walk through a wholly opened door to Him.

And therefore, that repentance that is for God's salvation, is firstly for Jesus's sake, and it is also from all sinning at once, not just some now and we'll wait to see about later. And certainly not none now.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

By repentance, we do the word, and open the door to Jesus, who knocks by His Spirit and word. And, us repenting of all sinning opens the door wide. But partial repentance is just a partially opened door to peak out and see who is there.

And, I'll move another step further toward your teaching, in that such whole repentance is only granted and given by God's grace. As you say well, godly sorrow to repent for God, is only from God. (Nebuchadnezzar did so, but not to convert wholly to the God of Israel from the heart.)

These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

In this sense we both open the door together, us from the inside, and Jesus standing on the outside. However, the repentance is an all the way opened door. Jesus doesn't just take what He can get from us, and slip in.

Pride would be opening that door of such blessed holy and divine repentance all by ourselves, giving no glory to God.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

And so, I agree with your persuasive arguments to correct my own. It helps to perfect God's gospel commandment of repenting for Jesus' sake, for and in His salvation and life.

Now, if you agree that such repentance is only from all our sins and trespasses, that He may freely enter into our hearts, and we holily into His kingdom, then we would be in perfect agreement. God's holy and righteous salvation and deliverance is with repentance from our sins, for and through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
In any case, I know my teaching of it is now bettered by your teaching of it. (at least in part)

People have accused me of never being correct nor willing to be. This is not true. But I only allow for sound Bible correction, not just to please someone who only wants to be agreed with. I'll remember this post and use it to prove I am more than glad to be corrected. I repent of sinning for Jesus' sake, and I am corrected for Jesus' doctrine sake.

Thanks much.

 

[Ghada]

When God or Christ regenerates a person, they are given repentance.

I agree. And so, when we are given repentance, God and Christ regenerates a person.

I would say now that hairs are being split without a difference. Repentance and regeneration are at the same instant quick and sharp by the Spirit. Regeneration is with repentance, and repentance is with regeneration. There is not one without the other.

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

As is the same for repentance and remission of sins. Regeneration is by the Spirit with repentance and remission of sins by the blood of the Lamb.

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

And that person is called by Jesus one that repents.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness.

We do not repent for God's regeneration with our own will and power, nor does God repent 'for us' by His power alone. We repent for Jesus' sake with God, by the power He gives us to become regenerated sons of God and partakers of His divine nature.

'Waiting' for God to grant repentance with 'overwhelming' grace, is grace-talk for waiting to repent in our own good time. Like Felix, it's rebellion against the commandment to repent, and telling God to come back at a more convenient season.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

And that person repents from all sins and trespasses.

The repentance granted by God in His regeneration and washing of His Son's blood is:

1. By commandment of God.
2. For Jesus' sake.
3. By the power of God given to repent.
4. From all sins and trespasses.

Any other kind of repentance of man, is by the will and power and purposes of man alone, and not for the salvation and justification given freely by God and Christ alone.

1. Repentance by for one's own will is not by commandment of God with faith toward God.
2. Repentance for one's own purpose is not for Jesus' sake. It's for a corruptible crown, not incorruptible.
3. Repentance by one's own power is not given by God, and is not divine by nature nor enduring.
4. Repenting to certain specifics only, but not all, is man's own righteousness.

Many are called by the gospel to repent of all sinning for remission of sins and regeneration of the Holy Ghost, but only few are them that do repent for Jesus' sake with joy in heaven over them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

All who preach their own gospel of salvation unto repentance, also declare they never repent of all their transgressions to sin not. It's forever gradual to sin less than before, but never ends up obeying the commandment of God to repent of all our transgressions.

Yes, I know a group on the radio that says they can never be sinless, they can only sin less. But because of their genuine love for Christ I believe they are saved but as Paul said, 15 "If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." This passage in context is speaking of false doctrines created by man - their work. Paul is comparing his doctrines received by the Spirit, against other teachers. I've seen many on forums use this same verse out of context and adapt it to sinning in general, and not church fathers that created cultish doctrines they received from demons.

What IS gradual is producing good fruit. 2 Peter 1:5-7.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is to repent of all sins and trespasses at once, for Jesus' sake, unto His salvation from sinning and everlasting life in the Father and the Son.

The incorruptible gospel produces the uncorrupted heart and life walking with Jesus. The corruptible gospel only produces another corrupt religion of man walking in the flesh more or less, by the old same heart of lust.

Yes, we simply repent and do this by recognizing it is not repenting of individual sins of which we could never confess them all, but give over the SOURCE, our whole sin nature that we must turn over to Christ to cleanse. 1 John 3:8-9. "8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

 

[Ghada]

We can obey only after we are saved and given the Gift to obey,

You're trying to slip in the old error. It's not after, nor before, but only when. (When I am corrected, I don't go back to old error of preaching repentance before salvation)

We can only obey the commandment of God to repent with salvation, when God grants repentance with the gift of faith to obey Him.

'After' is only for them that repent not, and want to believe they are saved first, with no need to repent to be saved in the end.

Any 'after the fact' repentance remains by their own will alone in their own good time, and never as by commandment. They remain the self-willed children of disobedience converted to new religion only, and not with regeneration and new birth of the Holy Ghost.

And any such 'add-on' repentance is never from all their sins and trespasses.

otherwise man can't obey since naturally hes a child of disobedience.

True. People can naturally repent of all manner of things for a corruptible crown. But them repenting of all sins for Jesus' sake, can only do so with Christ, by the power God grants them to obey Him.

 

[Ghada]

Yes, I know a group on the radio that says they can never be sinless, they can only sin less.

No man other than Jesus has ever been sinless, since we all have sinned, except Jesus. Sinlessness is for life from cradle to grave. Not sinning is only for now in Christ Jesus.

And sinning less is only for religion of man not in Christ Jesus.

The pure religion of Jesus Christ is now sinning not.

Less inning than before is only partial repentance at our own will, and like Felix at our own convenience.

Religion of sinning less is only for them that haven't yet repented of sinning for Jesus' sake, nor crucified our old life and will on our own cross with Christ Jesus.

But because of their genuine love for Christ

'Genuine' love can be defined many ways by man. But God only defines His love one way: With all the heart and life we live.

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Like wrong sincerity, genuine can be genuinely wrong. Those who only sin less, are only the hearers, that do not all the truth of God. Neither do they believe all the words of God, especially of Jesus commanding us to go and sin no more.

The disobedient see that commandment is harsh and condemning only:

Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.

And not as us saints who see it as a mission of honor entrusted to us by the Lord Himself.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The double hearted and minded of Romans 7, are hearers of the word only, whose minds alone are changed about sinning, but their hearts are not yet changed from sinning. They may indeed sin less than before, but never repent with a whole heart to be made wholly new by God in Christ Jesus.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

believe they are saved but as Paul said, 15 "If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." This passage in context is speaking of false doctrines created by man - their work

True. It is for ministerial errors only. No doubt we have all been in some sort of sincerely wrong doctrinal teaching. So that we must remain correctible by the Spirit of truth through inspiration and admonition of men.

It does not apply to continued transgressions and unrighteous works of the flesh against God.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Moreover, 1 Cor 3:16-17 shows that if our ministry is so seriously wrong, that we cause the sheep to stumble and fall by trasngression, then we have now defiled the body of Christ, and shall be condemned with them. that we have led into the ditch.

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Jesus does not say that the Jezebel teacher is committing such things, but only leading others to commit them by teaching in such a way so as to allow it.

Only sinning less, but always saved forever, is the direct recipe for sinning in the things we want, while believing we will still certainly be resurrected unto life.

It's a lie against the truth of the Bible, that leads many sincere Christians to repent not of all sinning, and so continue to knowingly sin in what they don't yet 'want' to repent of.

The problem of course, is that tomorrow is not promised, and there is no repentance granted by God in the grave.

. Paul is comparing his doctrines received by the Spirit, against other teachers. I've seen many on forums use this same verse out of context and adapt it to sinning in general, and not church fathers that created cultish doctrines they received from demons.

I agree. 1 Cor 3 is all about ministry only:

For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

...and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

That is, unless such ministry turns evil unto more ungodliness:

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

And that includes the evil of just doing less ungodliness than before. And many who teach that add iniquity to it, by further declaring it impossible not to do some sinning and evil at times. And then they completely sear their consciences to the truth of righteousness, by going on to condemn the sons of God preaching and doing righteousness at all times.

In their doctrinal book, the righteous saints are the only ones not 'really' saved, because they are purposely made to appear to be self-righteous 'fault-finding' boasters.

Cain was the first one to go that far, so as to excuse his own lame sacrifice of life offered to God:

Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

What IS gradual is producing good fruit. 2 Peter 1:5-7.


Yes, we simply repent and do this by recognizing it is not repenting of individual sins of which we could never confess them all, but give over the SOURCE, our whole sin nature that we must turn over to Christ to cleanse.

This is true. We repent of sinning itself against God, with God giving us power to do so.

However, repenting of the SOURCE 'sinning', without repenting of the ACTUAL sinful deeds, is once again, just more lip-service 'repentance of the mind' about sin, without true repentance of the heart from doing the sinning.

Sin against God is only by committing sin against Him. The SOURCE of sinful works of the flesh, is lusting from the heart. This is the source within the platter Jesus commands us to first cleanse, that our outward works may be clean indeed.

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Those who are doing such things, are the unrighteous outwardly and inwardly by lust, and shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 John 3:8-9. "8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

The answer to this Scripture (that is made debatable only by them still doing such things), is that our relationship with God is always a matter of present tense and now.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

No man can now presently being sinning with the devil, and also now presently be a born son of God. If we sons do sin and commit transgressions against our Father, then we have bastardized ourselves from the family and house of God. And we like the prodigal. we must repent to return to the our Father's house for forgiveness of sin and washing away all unrighteousness by His dear Son. (The proudly righteous eldest son forgives not, and is condemned of himself in all his righteousness without mercy)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No man other than Jesus has ever been sinless, since we all have sinned, except Jesus. Sinlessness is for life from cradle to grave. Not sinning is only for now in Christ Jesus.

Though we have sinned in the past, don't you believe Jesus takes them away as far as the east is from the west? So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

That is why we must be born again of the Spirit. Though you are using an Old Testament text about us doing the circumsizing of the heart, in Colossians in the New Covenant it is Jesus that is doing the circumcising.

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Even though Jesus was the only person sinless from birth because of the seed of the Father, when we are born again it is the same seed that catapults us into sinlessness of lawless sins unto death. I see you also like 2 Peter 1:10-11 and recognize that we can grow mature fruit of the Spirit in this lifetime. But even though Jesus says He prunes us, we are still deemed sinless. John 15:3

 

[Ghada]

Though we have sinned in the past, don't you believe Jesus takes them away as far as the east is from the west? So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

Would you show me where I imply that? I would like to see it, and maybe be more careful.

If we repent with godly sorrow granted by God, then all our old sins of the past, including the whole life itself separated from God, is forgiven, washed away, and instantly circumcised from us by the Spirit of Christ.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

It's our whole old life and man that is done away with, so that instantly we are as newborn babes wholly clean and pure of heart and life.

We are literally as babes in the womb at that moment, where with God we have done neither good nor evil at all.

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

No works are on our account, when first newborn of God in Christ Jesus:

That is why we must be born again of the Spirit. Though you are using an Old Testament text about us doing the circumsizing of the heart, in Colossians in the New Covenant it is Jesus that is doing the circumcising.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

We see that making our new heart is by us repenting, and by God giving it to us in the OT.

It's also in the NT:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

We participate in our own spiritual sanctification and circumcision of Christ, by obedience to the commandment and the Spirit of grace.

The gospel of having no part in our own salvation and justification by Christ, is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the self-justifying good news for unrepented sinners, that play humble games, by saying they have 'nothing to do with it', because it's 'all done by Jesus', or it's 'all about Jesus' and what he's done.

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh,

And this proves the point. It says nothing about who does the circumcising, as though He circumcised us alone.

And it shows that circumcision of heart was made how? By us putting off, repenting from, circumcising, our old lifetime body of sins.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

We that were dead in sins and trespasses in the uncircumcision of our hearts, do the repenting. Which is us mortifying the deeds of the old life. Why? So that we shall live: so that we shall be circumcised in Christ and newborn of the Spirit.

by the circumcision of Christ,

We now do so by the circumcision of Christ. The circumcision of Christ is Christ's circumcision. It does not mean it is done by Christ alone. (It's the same error of being justified by Christ alone as by faith alone, without us doing our part to repent and do good.)

We repent, we circumcise, we mortify, we put off for Jesus sake. We take up our cross for His sake.

Jesus does not repent, circumcise, mortify, nor put off our sinning for us. He does not take up our cross for us. He's already taken up His cross for the Father and our sake.

Now, it's our turn by His Spirit.

Even though Jesus was the only person sinless from birth because of the seed of the Father, when we are born again it is the same seed that catapults us into sinlessness of lawless sins unto death.

Simply to avoid the naysayers looking to find fault, I call it as the Bible does: being free from sin, and ceasing from sin.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Would you show me where I imply that? I would like to see it, and maybe be more careful.

If we repent with godly sorrow granted by God, then all our old sins of the past, including the whole life itself separated from God, is forgiven, washed away, and instantly circumcised from us by the Spirit of Christ.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

It's our whole old life and man that is done away with, so that instantly we are as newborn babes wholly clean and pure of heart and life.

We are literally as babes in the womb at that moment, where with God we have done neither good nor evil at all.

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

No works are on our account, when first newborn of God in Christ Jesus:



Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

We see that making our new heart is by us repenting, and by God giving it to us in the OT.

It's also in the NT:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

We participate in our own spiritual sanctification and circumcision of Christ, by obedience to the commandment and the Spirit of grace.

The gospel of having no part in our own salvation and justification by Christ, is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the self-justifying good news for unrepented sinners, that play humble games, by saying they have 'nothing to do with it', because it's 'all done by Jesus', or it's 'all about Jesus' and what he's done.







And this proves the point. It says nothing about who does the circumcising, as though He circumcised us alone.

And it shows that circumcision of heart was made how? By us putting off, repenting from, circumcising, our old lifetime body of sins.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

We that were dead in sins and trespasses in the uncircumcision of our hearts, do the repenting. Which is us mortifying the deeds of the old life. Why? So that we shall live: so that we shall be circumcised in Christ and newborn of the Spirit.









We now do so by the circumcision of Christ. The circumcision of Christ is Christ's circumcision. It does not mean it is done by Christ alone. (It's the same error of being justified by Christ alone as by faith alone, without us doing our part to repent and do good.)

We repent, we circumcise, we mortify, we put off for Jesus sake. We take up our cross for His sake.

Jesus does not repent, circumcise, mortify, nor put off our sinning for us. He does not take up our cross for us. He's already taken up His cross for the Father and our sake.

Now, it's our turn by His Spirit.



Simply to avoid the naysayers looking to find fault, I call it as the Bible does: being free from sin, and ceasing from sin.

The gospel is the power of God. It is supernatural. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

 

[Ghada]

But even though Jesus says He prunes us,

If you mean 'pruning' is by sinning and forgiving, then we disagree completely here. Jesus' pruning of His own members is not by us sinning in His body. It is by perfecting our obedience in times of trial, to learn the power of enduring temptation and tribulation, without falling to it and sinning by it.

We are newborn pure of God by God's granted repentance. We grow as pure sons of God learning obedience to God with a pure heart through all trials of faith.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Though we are a son, yet learn we obedience by the same things suffered, but not sinned by.

This is how Jesus Himself was made perfect by obedience unto the death of the cross: He endured temptation even on the cross and sinned not unto death. He did not rail on the cross as the others. He did not resist the smiters nor the nailers. He did not come down from the cross prematurely. And He did not revile them that reviled Him.

Jesus was enduring the greatest temptations of His life from the devil on the cross, and from those wagging their heads and accusing Him around the cross. He didn't even tell His disciples, "I told you so!" When they had all forsook Him as He said they would,

The faithful sons of God are made perfect by learning the same obedience of Jesus, through all trials of our faith. The pruning of Christ in our hearts and minds, is to cut off any doubts and weakness not to obey. The infirmities of our weakness is not sinning with the devil, but rather is the same experienced by Jesus, when having doubts of His own steadfastness in the garden.

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Sons of God grow in grace with obedience to God. It is not growing in grace by rejecting condemnation while disobeying God.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The grace of God is for help in time of need, not to sin. The 'grace' of unrepented sinners is help not be condemned for sinning.

Obedient sons growing in grace is learning how to continue obeying God through all trials and tribulations. Disobedient sinners grow in their 'grace' by learning how not to condemned nor even convicted by sinning.

I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Faithful sons grow strong to overcome all temptation, and the wicked one touches us not. Unrepented sinners grow strong in searing the conscience, so that the convicting Spirit of grace touches them not.

we are still deemed sinless. John 15:3

And if you mean we are 'counted' as sinless, while sinning, then we disagree even more.

The salvation of Jesus Christ, that is by being granted repentance of sinning, is deliverance from our sinning. It's not being 'rescued' from judgment and condemnation while still sinning.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Being saved in our sins, is a complete rejection of the granted repentance, newborn heart and life, and circumcision of Christ from the lust and sins of the world.

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@Ghada

What did you mean by this? "Sinlessness is for life from cradle to grave. Not sinning is only for now in Christ Jesus."

 

[gpresdo]

Wow, another one that doesn't know God's Word, let alone the gospel of Jesus Christ. brightfame52, I'm surprised at you.

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

New age religion interpretations of the Bible are amazing.....and they did not exist before the 1960's,

 

[Ghada]

What did you mean by this? "Sinlessness is for life from cradle to grave. Not sinning is only for now in Christ Jesus."

'Sinless' is from a word in the Bible that literally means never having sinned, and cannot possibly sin. It's the question Jesus asked of the stoners. He was asking them if they have never sinned in life.

Therefore, since all men, save one, have sinned against God, then no man other than Jesus can say we never sinned.

And so, since all born against sons of God in Christ Jesus, have sinned but also have ceased from sinning, then the repented sons of God are not sinless, but are now like as Jesus still tempted, yet without sinning.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus was like as all men are, tempted to sin. And all men, not like as Jesus, have sinned. However His repented brethren are now like as He was, tempted yet without sinning.

Without sinning in Heb 9 is present tense only. It's not the same word used in John 8, for past and present.

Repented sons of God are not like as Jesus, having never sinned and sinless. Repented sons in Christ Jesus are now like as Jesus, tempted yet without sinning.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It's the question Jesus asked of the stoners. He was asking them if they have never sinned in life.

What text are you referring to. I've never read this.

Repented sons of God are not like as Jesus, having never sinned and sinless. Repented sons in Christ Jesus are now like as Jesus, tempted yet without sinning.

I'll use a different word then with you. Righteous and holy from Revelation 22:11.

I see the difference being when we are first cleansed from all unrighteousness and become born again of the Spirit in our cleansed nature, we are righteous. 1 John 3, the whole chapter.

But there are two types of sin. Sins unto death which are breaking one of God's commandments, and sins not unto death which are lesser sins committed due to immature fruit of the Spirit. Catholics call these two sin types as mortal and venial. I agree.

So though we do not break major mortal sins any longer, it takes a long time for Jesus to prune away the minor sins in us as He finishes His work in perfecting us to holiness. 2 Peter 1:2-11. Both righteousness and holiness can be achieved in us in this lifetime. Doctrines of demons want to convince us that it is impossible to achieve either until we leave these bodies of sin which demons know will then be too late. Unfortunately, after being on Christian forums for years and learning what other denominations actually believe and not just knowing their names, I see that most of the Church has taken the wide road and did not enter through the narrow gate.

The key in both righteousness and holiness is abiding in Jesus and He in us. That is our responsibility. Other than that Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith. These two junctures are found in His gospel Romans 1:16-17 - revealed from faith to faith.