Many claim a Christian cannot also be a scientist

[BreadOfLife]

Show me they were created by god.

Show ME that we're all just an "accident".
You can't have a "Big Bang" without the elements from which to explode.

Show ME how that how billions of us have completely different genome structures - yet we're all basically the same??

I'd say the onus is on YOU to prove that we weren't created . . .

 

[Vince]

There are several places where remedies are offered to medical reasons - and work.

God gave man the ability to learn and ALL of the tools with which to advance in his learning. No different that ANY medical student..

It is very different than a medical student. Do you want a surgeon to operate on you after they only studied the bible?

There are many many things that the bible has wrong about our universe. Like the earth is free floating, darkness is a substance, light is not moving, pi=3 etc.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is very different than a medical student. Do you want a surgeon to operate on you after they only studied the bible?

There are many many things that the bible has wrong about our universe. Like the earth is free floating, darkness is a substance, light is not moving, pi=3 etc.

Many things in Scripture are written allegorically - not literally.
This is why people like you cannot understand Scripture because you can't discern what is literal and what is allegorical or metaphorical.

For example, when Jesus calls himself "Son of Man" - it is literal.
When He calls Himself a "Door" - it's metaphorical.

When YOU take ALL of Scripture literally - you display an abject ignorance, not only of Scripture - but of literature in general.

 

[Vince]

Show ME that we're all just an "accident".
You can't have a "Big Bang" without the elements from which to explode.

I am not claiming that is what happened. Also, the big bang did not explode it rapidly expanded at least that is what the theory indicates.

Show ME how that how billions of us have completely different genome structures - yet we're all basically the same??

Why? I am not claiming I know. You are claiming you know that we were created that means you have the burden of proof.

I'd say the onus is on YOU to prove that we weren't created . . .

People with claims have the burden of proof. I am not claiming we were not created. I am saying I don't know.

 

[Nancy]

Show me they were created by god.

It took people to look into things and discover how things work and how to use that to our advantage. Nowhere in scripture does it say anything about any medical advances, it would have been nice tough if your god would have mentioned some of these things in his book. God never directed anyone in the bible to advance scientific discovery.

Hi Vince,
"God never directed anyone in the bible to advance scientific discovery."
Maybe He did not but, it was already there to "discover"

 

[Nancy]

I am not claiming that is what happened. Also, the big bang did not explode it rapidly expanded at least that is what the theory indicates.

Why? I am not claiming I know. You are claiming you know that we were created that means you have the burden of proof.

People with claims have the burden of proof. I am not claiming we were not created. I am saying I don't know.

Well, if we were NOT created by intelligent design then...we would be subject to nothing but a bunch of random chemicals that just, poof-came from, nothing?

 

[CoreIssue]

The simple fact is there is no scientific reason anything should or could exist.

At some point in time something had to come from nothing. And nothing is not a thing.

 

[Vince]

Many things in Scripture are written allegorically - not literally.
This is why people like you cannot understand Scripture because you can't discern what is literal and what is allegorical or metaphorical.

This is not hard if you look at the text in context. The fact is that Exodus, Leviticus is talking about literal slaves.

For example, when Jesus calls himself "Son of Man" - it is literal.
When He calls Himself a "Door" - it's metaphorical.

Everyone understands this.

When YOU take ALL of Scripture literally - you display an abject ignorance, not only of Scripture - but of literature in general.

I don't take all of scripture literally. Can you point out where I have said this?

 

[Vince]

Hi Vince,
"God never directed anyone in the bible to advance scientific discovery."
Maybe He did not but, it was already there to "discover"

That is a claim that has no sufficient evidence.

 

[Vince]

Well, if we were NOT created by intelligent design then...we would be subject to nothing but a bunch of random chemicals that just, poof-came from, nothing?

Why do you assume there was a nothing? There is no scientific consensus on what was here before the universe. What is nothing anyway?

 

[Vince]

The simple fact is there is no scientific reason anything should or could exist.

At some point in time something had to come from nothing. And nothing is not a thing.

How do you know this is true? What is nothing? There are hypotheses by some scientists that say nothing cannot exist. You are just saying here that I don't know so God must have done it.

 

[Mjh29]

That is a claim that has no sufficient evidence.

If you cannot prove that God does not exist, then no one should be a scientist.

For example, your claim is based on the preconceived notion that our belief in God will alter our views of Science.

And yet, since there is no way to disprove God, I could say the same thing about Atheists; that, due to your lack of consideration of God, and due to your belief that there is no God, this may alter the outcome of your views of Science.

To put it simply, this same argument can be and does apply to Atheists, because they actually do have preconceived faith; the faith in the fact that there is not God.

 

[Vince]

If you cannot prove that God does not exist, then no one should be a scientist.

For example, your claim is based on the preconceived notion that our belief in God will alter our views of Science.

And yet, since there is no way to disprove God, I could say the same thing about Atheists; that, due to your lack of consideration of God, and due to your belief that there is no God, this may alter the outcome of your views of Science.

I and many atheists do not claim god does not exist.

To put it simply, this same argument can be and does apply to Atheists, because they actually do have preconceived faith; the faith in the fact that there is not God.

You have a lack of understanding of what an atheist is. An atheist is a person that says god does not exist or has a lack of belief that a god exists. Most atheists like myself have a lack of belief. God could exist but there is insufficient evidence to believe he does. We are making no claims.

 

[Mjh29]

I and many atheists do not claim god does not exist.

You have a lack of understanding of what an atheist is. An atheist is a person that says god does not exist or has a lack of belief that a god exists. Most atheists like myself have a lack of belief. God could exist but there is insufficient evidence to believe he does. We are making no claims.

So you are saying that you don't believe in anything?

 

[Vince]

So you are saying that you don't believe in anything?

Nope. I just don't believe god exists. Just like I don't believe Allah exits or Bigfoot. They could but I have no good reasons to believe they do. Do you believe Allah exists?

 

[Mjh29]

Nope. I just don't believe god exists. Just like I don't believe Allah exits or Bigfoot. They could but I have no good reasons to believe they do. Do you believe Allah exists?

Of course not, but that is getting off topic. So, you refuse to believe because of lack of evidence? Firstly, I should say that I am of a quite different persuasion than many of the Christians you have encountered. I believe that the Scriptures are very clear when they say that

1.) There is enough evidence in creation to know that a god exists. The fact that life exists period, and that the earth is the exact distance away from the sun to support life are no accident. The fact that every particle in our bodies is so unique and complex is enough for men to know [regardless of what they say or claim] that there is a god.

2.) That unless the Father decided to change your heart, there is no amount of persuasion or arguing that will change your heart, because as of currently you have a heart of stone-- set against God. Let me ask you this; if you don't believe there is sufficient evidence for a god, and any evidence given to you is not sufficient, why join a Christian forum? What is the point in asking people for evidence when you refuse to believe it?

All I can do is pray that God will reach out and pour His grace upon you to change your heart to repent and believe in Him. But beyond that, I think that we both know that no amount of 'evidence' will ever be enough for you. God has chosen not to reveal Himself in the way you want Him to, ie. literally giving signs from Heaven, because faith is "The grounds of things which are hoped for, and the evidence of things which are not seen."
And sad but true you will never know Him, and never find the evidence you are looking for unless He first opens your eyes and changes your heart to see who He is.

 

[Vince]

Of course not, but that is getting off topic. So, you refuse to believe because of lack of evidence?

I don't think refuse is the right word. I am not convinced. We don't get to choose what we believe. I cannot choose to believe Bigfoot exists because the evidence he does has not convinced me. I also cannot choose to believe that my wife is not the mother of my kids because of the overwhelming evidence that she is. I was a christian for 18 years and I believed for bad reasons but it was a true belief. Through study I became unconvinced that god exists. So I am not refusing to believe I just became unconvinced due to more evidence presented to me.

Firstly, I should say that I am of a quite different persuasion than many of the Christians you have encountered. I believe that the Scriptures are very clear when they say that

1.) There is enough evidence in creation to know that a god exists. The fact that life exists period, and that the earth is the exact distance away from the sun to support life are no accident. The fact that every particle in our bodies is so unique and complex is enough for men to know [regardless of what they say or claim] that there is a god.

This is a logical fallacy, you cannot say because you know of no other reason for the existence of the universe then a god has to be the cause. This needs to be demonstrated with sufficient evidence.

2.) That unless the Father decided to change your heart, there is no amount of persuasion or arguing that will change your heart, because as of currently you have a heart of stone-- set against God. Let me ask you this; if you don't believe there is sufficient evidence for a god, and any evidence given to you is not sufficient, why join a Christian forum? What is the point in asking people for evidence when you refuse to believe it?

I have never said any evidence would be insufficient. I am open to the idea that god exists so if you have evidence let me know and I will look at it.

All I can do is pray that God will reach out and pour His grace upon you to change your heart to repent and believe in Him. But beyond that, I think that we both know that no amount of 'evidence' will ever be enough for you.

This is untrue and I don't know that at all.

God has chosen not to reveal Himself in the way you want Him to, ie. literally giving signs from Heaven, because faith is "The grounds of things which are hoped for, and the evidence of things which are not seen."
And sad but true you will never know Him, and never find the evidence you are looking for unless He first opens your eyes and changes your heart to see who He is.

I am waiting.

 

[Nancy]

That is a claim that has no sufficient evidence.

No sufficient evidence?? So, what the scientists have thus far discovered, was NOT there to discover?! The MOST logical reasoning is that there IS an intelligent designer. And, nothing is just air and space unoccupied. You certainly have plenty of faith that God does NOT exist yet, you have zero belief that He does because you want magic tricks. God isn't a puppet and does as He wills...He searches for upright men after His own heart. Look at Simon the Sorcerer, trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit to make money...only by the grace of God was he spared. Look at Annanias and Saphiria (sp Willie T. ?) They were not so spared. Those who believe without seeing are showing their trust and faith in action...faith moves God on our behalf as nobody can please Him without it...I do hope you will find what ever you are looking for Vince.
nancy

 

[Vince]

No sufficient evidence?? So, what the scientists have thus far discovered, was NOT there to discover?! The MOST logical reasoning is that there IS an intelligent designer.

That is not logical because it is not based on any evidence that god exists. The most logical answer at this point is I don't know. To say we don't know of another explanation does not mean that god is the answer.

And, nothing is just air and space unoccupied.

This is something.

You certainly have plenty of faith that God does NOT exist...

I have never claimed this nor do I believe this to be the case.

yet, you have zero belief that He does because you want magic tricks.

What? I am singly looking for sufficient evidence that he exists.

God isn't a puppet and does as He wills...He searches for upright men after His own heart. Look at Simon the Sorcerer, trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit to make money...only by the grace of God was he spared. Look at Annanias and Saphiria (sp Willie T. ?) They were not so spared.

Ok, why shouldn't I seek after Allah instead of the god of the bible? There is the same amount of evidence Allah is exists as your god in my opinion.

Those who believe without seeing are showing their trust and faith in action...faith moves God on our behalf as nobody can please Him without it...I do hope you will find what ever you are looking for Vince.
nancy

Ok.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am not claiming that is what happened. Also, the big bang did not explode it rapidly expanded at least that is what the theory indicates.

What rapidly expanded?
You can't have a Big Bang without the creation of the gases and matter to "rapidly expand".

Why? I am not claiming I know. You are claiming you know that we were created that means you have the burden of proof.
People with claims have the burden of proof. I am not claiming we were not created. I am saying I don't know.

Science has shown that we ALL come from a common parentage. It has NEVER been able to prove that we came from monkeys or apes. because there is always the problem oif a "missing link".

The Bible talked about our common parentage - LONG before scientists ever did.