Mark 16:16 Isn’t Teaching That You Must Be Water Baptized to Go to Heaven
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
We must always speak truth . what we cant do is let them drag us down and anger us . Just speak the truth
rebuke , correct . ITS on them what they do .
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Well thank you Johann but, I am not Admin., but a moderator.
And I love my fellow "crew" members, lol. My job is easier...sometimes, lol.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
many moons ago , a decade or more i too was wrestling and beaten down .
i mean it seemed hardly anyone was hearing anything .
THEN i heard the simple reminder . YE CANNOT GIVE THE INCREASE . ONLY GOD can .
Just speak the truth , correct , he who has ears to hear will hear and those who dont will reject .
Dont get frustrated . We cannot give the increase . BUT and this is one BIG BUTT TOO .
we never stop correcting nor speaking truth . THAT my friend we can and ought to do no matter the cost for doing so .
Good for you! Everyman that wants to live a godly life will be met with persecutions-and no one to help!
walk a mile in my shoes and I will do the same.
Great credentials! Man-I am just a itinerant man-of no importance-nothing to boast about, except in my Lord and great God Jesus Christ-and with Him there are no disappointments!
Shalom to you and precious family-I will keep you up in my prayers.
Johann.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
march on in the LORD my friend . you have encouraged me , the labor of a lamb is not in vain .
HANDS UP and let us praise and thank the glorious LORD my friend .
We have a godly Staff member-and I thank God for him.Well thank you Johann but, I am not Admin., but a moderator.
Shalom Nancy.
Johann.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Walk a mile in your shoes is a legitimate statement. So tell me what do I have to do to walk a mile in your shoes?
ScottA
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Everything from us being made "in the image" of God to the rulers of the day and night (darkness) being "a greater light" and "a lessor light" is all parables. This is the basis of scripture. Quit literally "the days of Noah" and the life of Solomon (son of David) and Joshua crossing the Jordon, and thousands of other old Testament enactments, are all foreshadowings in parable. Even in the new Testament Paul speaks of the mystery of marriage as Christ and the church and then tells [brides] to "be silent in church" all after Jesus had said that "not you" but "the Holy Spirit" was to speak.
This is the spiritual key that unlocks what is otherwise literary foolishness to natural men.
ScottA
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The times of Israel were the times of the children of Adam and of the flesh (as are we if only in the flesh and under our own power), but these times of the church are to be the times of the children of the spirit of God. Therefore, we should yield which yes, often means remaining silent.
Example: Imagine this Forum if all the people chatter were removed and only that of the spirit of God remained.
Indeed, Paul spoke contending with a few unruly women in the church of his time--but that is not what got his counsel to be silent in church into the eternal word of God, and it only makes sense to those who have an ear and put it together with what Paul also said regarding the mystery of marriage and the bride and Bridegroom--in which case we are all women before God. These were the words from God for the church.
"He who has an ear let him hear what the spirit says to the churches."
Godslittleservant
Active Member
My question is why are we told to be baptized
What is the biblical reason for baptism in Christ name
Does it have a purpose
Does Jesus command it for no reason in his gospel or is it related to his gospel in some way
I mean surely it has a purpose it isn't just do it because the preacher said to it must have a deeper reason
What is the biblical reason for baptism in Christ name
Does it have a purpose
Does Jesus command it for no reason in his gospel or is it related to his gospel in some way
I mean surely it has a purpose it isn't just do it because the preacher said to it must have a deeper reason
Godslittleservant
Active Member
Jesus didn’t say, “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” Neither did He say, “He who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned.”
Why did he need to?
He said "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned."
Baptism is only valid if one believes in Christ with out the belief nothing matters one must believe in Christ before one can submit to his teaching.
That is a play around to avoid what the scripture clearly teaches
One really needs to do a topical study on the true teaching on baptism it is as clear as one needing to believe..
Why did he need to?
He said "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned."
Baptism is only valid if one believes in Christ with out the belief nothing matters one must believe in Christ before one can submit to his teaching.
That is a play around to avoid what the scripture clearly teaches
One really needs to do a topical study on the true teaching on baptism it is as clear as one needing to believe..
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The simpicity of it all is this . IF the early church did it , WE DO IT . and they did DO it .
Every word JESUS ever spoke is TRUTH . IF they did WE DO . that is about as simple as i can put it .
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
I agree with the synopsis under, Conclusion.Mark 16:16
From 1974 to 1978 I was involved in evangelistic outreach ministry at two universities: Arkansas State University (1974-76) and North Carolina State University (1976-778). I often ran into students who believed that in order to go to heaven you had to be baptized. One of the passages they cited was Mark 16:15-16.
And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
In this article I will explain why this verse can’t be teaching salvation by baptism and then show what it does mean.
Mark 16:16 Isn’t Teaching That You Must Be Water Baptized to Go to Heaven
There are a number of clear and compelling reasons why we can be sure that Mark 16:16 isn’t teaching that water baptism is a condition of eternal salvation:
The basis of condemnation is unbelief only.
The apostles did not preach that you must be baptized to go to heaven.
The Gospel never changes.
There are NT examples of people who were saved before they were baptized.
Let’s briefly consider each of those points in more detail.
Condemnation Is for Unbelief Only
Jesus didn’t say, “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” Neither did He say, “He who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned.” By this our Lord made it clear that faith alone was necessary to avoid eternal condemnation. He said the same thing in John 3:18: “He who believes in Him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (see also John 5:24; 6:47).
The Apostles Preached Salvation by Faith Alone
Two of the disciples in the inner circle were Peter and John. Both of them heard Jesus say the words recorded in Mark 16. Yet both of them taught that the only condition of eternal salvation was trusting in Christ and Him alone.
Peter proclaimed the Gospel to Cornelius and his family. He led them to faith in Christ before he even mentioned baptism (cf. Acts 10-34-44). Only after they were saved and baptized by the Holy Spirit did Peter mention Christian baptism and give them the opportunity to be baptized (Acts 10:45-48).
The apostle John wrote an evangelistic book that we call the Gospel of John. He repeatedly indicated that faith is the condition of eternal salvation. Yet not once in all of John’s Gospel, written after the event recorded in Mark 16:16 occurred, did John condition eternal salvation upon water baptism. (In fact, Christian water baptism is not even mentioned in John’s Gospel. )
The Gospel Never Changes
“What about the thief on the cross?” I would say. “Jesus said he would be with Him that day in Paradise, yet he was never baptized.”
The response I would get was inevitably this: That was before Pentecost. After Pentecost, you have to be baptized in order to be saved.
What these students were telling me was that the Gospel had changed. Before Jesus’ resurrection and the coming of the Spirit a person was saved without water baptism. After that water baptism is required.
That is an impossible position to defend since the apostle Paul clearly indicates that we are saved in this age the same way Abraham and David were saved in their age (cf. Rom. 4:1-8; Gal. 3:6-14). The Gospel has always been, and always will be, by grace through faith plus nothing. We find this in the first book in the Bible (Gen. 3:15; 15:6) and in the last book in the Bible (Rev. 22:17).
The NT Gives Examples of Salvation Before Baptism
In addition to the thief on the cross, there are other NT examples of people who were saved without being baptized. Martha (John 11:25-27) is one. Another is Cornelius and his household. According to Acts 10:43-48, they were saved the moment they heard Peter tell them that all who believe in the Lord Jesus receive remission of sins. At that very moment, before they were baptized with water, they were baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ.
These four points prove that Mark 16:16 is not teaching that you must be water baptized to go to heaven. However, the question still remains as to what Mark 16:16 does mean.
Mark 16:16 Is Teaching That All Who Respond to the Great Commission Will Go to Heaven
The key to understanding these verses is to recognize that they are a summary statement of the Great Commission. Mark is not reporting everything that Jesus said about the Great Commission. He is recording one summary statement that Jesus made of it.
The Great Commission was communicated by the Lord on five different occasions (once each in the Gospels and Acts). There is a lot of variety in the way the Great Commission is expressed in these five instances. In some of those statements only evangelism is mentioned (e. g. , Luke 24:47, though it could possibly be dealing with both evangelism and discipleship, and Acts 1:8). In some only discipleship is mentioned (Matt. 28:18-20; John 21:15-17). the Great Commission in Mark 16:15-16 includes both evangelism and discipleship. Preaching the Gospel to every creature (v. 15) is evangelism. Baptizing those who believe (v. 16) is the first step in discipleship.
What Jesus is saying in Mark 16:15-16 is this:
Preach the Gospel to everyone on earth (v. 15).
Tell people to believe in Him and to be baptized (implied in v. 16).
Those who believe and are baptized will be saved.
Those who don’t believe will be condemned.
It is, of course, true that all who believe and are baptized will be eternally saved. That is not to say, however, that those who either refuse to be baptized or who fail to be baptized through procrastination, ignorance, or lack of opportunity (for example, some people have died immediately after trusting in Christ) will not be saved. They will. At the very moment they believe, they are saved from the penalty of sin, eternal condemnation.
We must be careful not to read into Scripture. Jesus does not say or even imply that the one who isn’t baptized won’t be saved. We know that is not true from other Scripture, and even from the second half of v. 16. *
Conclusion
Mark 16:16 does not contradict salvation by faith alone. Rather, it affirms it. Jesus clearly and unmistakably indicates that the sole basis of eternal condemnation is unbelief. The sole basis for eternal salvation is believing the Lord Jesus, and Him alone, for it.
________________
*Another understanding of Mark 16:16 is that it refers to Holy Spirit baptism (see, for example, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Systematic Theology, Vol. 6, p. 150). Except for some exceptional cases in the Book of Acts, Holy Spirit baptism has always occurred at the point of faith. Compare 1 Cor. 12:13. While that view is possible, I don’t believe it fits the context as well as the one I have articulated here.
Bob Wilkin, The GES News, Mary-June 1995, pp. 2-4
A healthy, edifying debate.
Johann
Jesus said he was the deliverer of living water.
Emersion baptism is a ritual that replays the burial of our old dead in sin self, and the resurrection up and out of the water, as a new born creation within and of God.
Born dead in sin from the waters of our mother's womb. Reborn through the living water alive in our Father and he in us, through emersion in liquid water.
Hallelujah!
Godslittleservant
Active Member
Yes that is the human way of looking at it but you can know beyond reason of doubt just what the true reasoning God gives to baptism. It is clearly spelled out what baptism is all about what God does in this simple act don't you want to know the truth.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Whoa stallion . ease up . I said IF THEY DID IT WE DO IT . what part of that implies we are NOT to be baptized .
I was saying IF THEY baptized and THEY DID , THEN WE SHOULD .
Easy silver . easy ol boy .
Godslittleservant
Active Member
Did you ever consider that it is the time and place God actually did what it says is only symbolic Could God truly be doing his transforming work of changing us from dead in sin to alive in Christ after that is what Paul said is happening in the baptism of Christ name when he explained it in Romans 6:3-6I agree with the synopsis under, Conclusion.
Jesus said he was the deliverer of living water.
Emersion baptism is a ritual that replays the burial of our old dead in sin self, and the resurrection up and out of the water, as a new born creation within and of God.
Born dead in sin from the waters of our mother's womb. Reborn through the living water alive in our Father and he in us, through emersion in liquid water.
Hallelujah!
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Godslittleservant
Active Member
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