Mark of the beast!?

[Christina]

I believe the mark of the beast is the oppsite of the Mark/seal of God just as you must give your heart and faith to God, that is be sealed in his truth in your brain(forehead) do Gods Work (with your hand) The oppisite will be true with Antichrist you must pledge your heart and faith to antichrist do his work to be able to take part in Antichrists one World system.Whether you are given a chip or whatever does not matter the sin is in giving him your heart and faith to the false christ. Do not be caught under the wrong right handPsa 144:8 Whose mouth speaketh vanity, and their right hand [is] a right hand of falsehoodPsa 144:11 Rid me, and deliver me from the hand of strange children, whose mouth speaketh vanity, and their right hand [is] a right hand of falsehoodhe will be here during the 6 trump/6th seal/ 6th vial let us be sealed in our minds(foreheads) under the right hand of God doing his Work

 

[logabe]

When the Scriptures were translated into the common language of the people, and the development of the printing press occurred in the mid-fifteenth century, the people began to discover the huge discrepancy between the Roman Church's teachings and what was actually written in the Bible.As the Protestant reformers read and studied the book of Revelation, along with the history of the Church, they began to see how these Scriptures spoke of actual Church history. Their view is today called the "Historicist" view. They saw clearly that the Roman Church was the "little horn" of Daniel 7, referenced in Revelation 13 as the beast that comes out of the sea.A certain Jesuit named Ribera then developed a counter-theory which we know today as "Futurism," which put most of the events of Revelation into the future, taking the heat off the Roman Church. The "beasts" in the book of Revelation became identified as "The Antichrist" of the future. The tribulation that the overcomers had endured for fifteen hundred years was passed over in favor of a future tribulation in which the saints would escape.These views were taken by certain Protestant teachers and developed into the modern futurist theory of the "Rapture." As men stopped learning Church history, Futurism became more and more plausible, until today it is the only teaching known to a huge number of Christians. Modern Futurist teachers have been able to identify the Rapture theory with the coming of Christ itself, and anyone who denies the Rapture is automatically thought to deny the very coming of Christ.Nothing can be farther from the truth. Revelation 13 itself tells of the rise of two beasts. The first is the beast coming from the sea, the second from the earth. The sea-monster is the Roman Church, described in Daniel 7 as the "little horn"; the second is an earth-monster, an economic beast, the modern banking system that we call Mystery Babylon, having a "mark" and "image" without which one cannot buy or sell. (It is called "money," or more accurately, "currency.")After the fall of Rome in 476 A.D., the Eastern half of the Roman Empire continued to exist for another millennium. However, the Bishop of Rome filled the real vacuum left by the fall of the Western Empire. The iron kingdom of Daniel, the fourth beast in the succession of empires, was "wounded unto death" (Rev. 13:3), but the little horn assumed power as the "revived Roman Empire." This beast then continued the persecutions begun under the previous Emperors. This is the "war on the saints" that Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 show us.Those who have forgotten Church history are easily susceptible to the teachings of Futurism, because they cannot possibly see how the Book of Revelation has been fulfilled without some knowledge of history. History today is usually taught in the most irrelevant and boring manner to ensure that no one remembers anything. I know. I was a victim myself.The time frame of "forty-two months" or 1,260 days is actually a reference to 1,260 YEARS from 529 to 1789. In 529, not long after the fall of Rome, the Eastern Emperor Justinian changed the entire legal system to conform to Church Law. It was called the Codex. The Catholic Encyclopedia says of it,"It would be difficult to exaggerate the importance of this 'Corpus.' It is the basis of all canon law (ecclesia vivet romana) and the basis of civil law in every civilized country."The Church came to dominate the State through the legal system in 529. The Roman Church began to break down after 1,260 years with the French Revolution in 1789. This Revolution killed the "firstborn son" of the Roman Church (that is, France). It also marked a great victory of the second beast--the economic beast that came from the earth. It began a series of revolutions that made money the god of the modern nations.Logabe

 

[logabe]

The main point I want to make is to show that the "little horn" is not a future Antichrist, but it is certainly an antichrist. The term "antichrist" appears only in First and Second John. Nowhere does it appear in the Book of Revelation. The "beasts" are not the same as "antichrist," regardless of what the Futurists tell us.There were "many antichrists" already in John's day (1 John 2:18), but John also said that "antichrist is coming." It was yet future in his day (the first century), because the "little horn" had not yet arisen. But how is it that "many antichrists" were already present in John's day?The Greek word anti means "in place of." It is used in Matt. 2:22,"But when he heard the Archelaus was reigning over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there."The Greek word does not necessarily mean "against or opposed to," as we normally interpret it today. An antichrist means "in place of Christ." This can be either good or bad, depending on the context. Christ's throne was the mercy seat in the temple, and the high priest exercised spiritual authority IN PLACE OF Christ. If he discharged his duties according to the mind of Christ, it was good. If he usurped authority and did as he pleased, it was bad.Likewise, when a political throne was set up in Israel, King Saul ruled upon the throne of Christ, for God was said to be their King. Saul was a usurper, therefore an antichrist in the negative sense. But later, David sat upon Christ's throne and ruled as a man after God's own heart (1 Sam. 13:14). He did not usurp the authority of Christ, so he was an antichrist in a positive sense.When the priests in Jesus' day saw Christ, they said among themselves (Matt. 21:38), "This is the Heir; come, let us kill Him and seize his inheritance." They were antichrists, not merely because they opposed Him, but because they usurped His throne. They were the "many antichrists" in the first century.The future antichrist was the little horn, the re-manifestation of King Saul, the Pentecostal type. Even as Saul usurped the throne as a negative antichrist, so also did the Church usurp Christ's throne, and, as Pope Boniface VIII wrote, assumed the authority to overrule both Christ and the apostles. In so doing, they oppressed Catholics everywhere, and the Catholics of Rome soon became especially disillusioned and cynical. They believed that the Pope was Christ's representative on earth, but they wished it were not so.The Popes were known as the "Vicar of Christ." Vicar comes from the Latin word vicarius, "a substitute." It is one who rules IN PLACE OF another. In other words, a vicar of Christ is an antichrist, whether in the positive or the negative sense. There were Popes who genuinely had a heart for God, such as Celestine V, who preceded Boniface VIII in 1293. But Boniface induced him to resign, then had him thrown into prison, and finally killed him with poison in 1294. When Celestine was arrested and brought before his successor Pope, he told Boniface, "You came in like a fox--you will reign as a lion--and you will die like a dog." His words were prophetic and came to pass.He is of particular interest, because he became Pope precisely 1,260 years after the Church of Pentecost had begun. His short papacy was the final opportunity for the Church to repent of usurping Christ's authority.Logabe

 

[Jordan]

(logabe;63863)
The main point I want to make is to show that the "little horn" is not a future Antichrist,...
Jesus was prophesised as a horn. Why can't little horn be THE Anti-Christ, aka, Satan?

 

[Christina]

Well I don't agree, the beast coming out of the sea is a one world system coming from the sea of Peoples nations and tongues if you will look at your symbols as God shows us a sea is peoples just as today we might say looking out at a crowd. The second beast comes from the earth because it is Antichrists system and he is on earth and controls it. He is the little horn. The reformers couldnt understand the book because it was still closed to them seal up the book Daniel. They (the reformers) were under the command to preach the gospel around the World. Mark13:10And the gospel must first be published among all nations. This clearly was not fulfilled in 70 AD they studied Rev. very little because they didnt really understand it. Knowledge had to increase it is only in more recent times the book has been opened. It has nothing to do with Catholoic church.the End time events take place in Jerusalem not Rome.I like most of your posts Logabe but on this I beleve you are incorrect God did not give us just a history book but a living book God as you know often teaches in types 70 AD was a type not a final fulfillment. There is nothing new under the sun (what was before will be again). However I do completly agree that Rature is no where in scripture but one is not required to believe mens Rapture doctrine to be a futurist. The fact men have added there own doctrine to the Book When God opened it. Is no new thing. But we can not ignore what we shown in scripture that will come to pass simply because men have preverted it with lies of their own.

 

[logabe]

Daniel 2 reveals the basic outline of history, telling us about the four world kingdoms (Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome) that would dominate Palestine and the Western World. This came through a prophetic dream given to the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar, who saw an image with a head of gold (Babylon) having silver arms (Media-Persia), bronze belly (Greece), and legs of iron (Rome). Nebuchadnezzar also saw a stone crush the image on its feet and then grind the entire image into powder that blew away in the wind. Daniel interpreted the stone to be a “kingdom” (Dan. 2:44) that God would establish, which would never be destroyed.In Daniel 7 the prophet himself received divine revelation of these kingdoms. This time they were pictured as “four great beasts” (Dan. 7:3). The first was a lion with eagle’s wings (Babylon’s national symbol, as depicted on many of their monuments). The second beast was a bear—representing Media-Persia, with Persia being the stronger of the two, “raised up on one side.” The third beast was a leopard with wings to indicate swiftness—representing the Grecian Empire, whose leader, Alexander the Great, conquered that portion of the world all the way to India. The fourth beast was terrifying and was different from the other beasts. It had “large iron teeth” (Dan. 7:7).Within the prophecy of this iron-toothed beast, a little horn (power) came up, having eyes like a man and “a mouth uttering great boasts” (Dan. 7:8). This is generally recognized as being an extension of the beast with iron teeth—that is, an extension of Rome’s power. The futurists view this as a future “Antichrist.” The historicists view this as an extension of the Roman power base that arose after the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 A.D. In other words, they view it as the Roman Church system itself, which filled the power vacuum with the collapse of Imperial Rome.The Roman Empire itself had been divided in 395 A.D. The East was ruled by emperors based in Constantinople. The West was ruled by emperors based in Rome. When Rome fell in 476 A.D., the Eastern Roman Empire continued for nearly a thousand years until Constantinople fell in 1453 A.D. Hence, this iron-toothed beast, or the “iron legs” of the image in king Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, extended from 63 B.C. to at least 1453 A.D. The little horn was said to come out of this beast, “uttering great boasts.” In Revelation 13:5 we are given more details of this little horn, but John writes that this beast had “a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies.”Who is this “little horn” that comes up out of the Roman Empire? The futurist view is that this is a future “Antichrist,” and that there was a long “gap” between the fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of a new Roman Empire that is somehow distinct from the Roman Catholic Church.Whereas Daniel gives us a broad perspective of all four world kingdoms leading up to the (Stone) Kingdom of God, John’s Revelation focuses primarily upon the fourth world kingdom (including the “little horn” extension of Rome) and how it will be replaced by the Kingdom of God. Thus, the book of Revelation is more focused and includes greater detail of the past 2,000 years since the rise of the Roman Empire. Rome took control of Judea in 63 B.C.Logabe

 

[Christina]

Daniel 7:7 "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns." Many say this is a "non-descript beast". I think there is a good description given about this beast. Once you become familiar with the Book of Revelation, it is apparent what this description fits. This description is for the one world order. We call it the new world order. Though it is peaceful and does bring peace, it is for a very short time.To get a better description of this beast of the "new world order", let's look at Revelation 17:12. "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."The horn is symbolic of power, yet these ten kings will rule as the "one world order" system for one hour with Antichrist (Satan) when he walks upon this earth.It is obvious this fourth beast of Daniel 7:7 is very well described. It is very clear that this is that one world political power that rises out of the sea (the people or nations of the earth).Revelation 17:15 "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." So we see the ten horns are ten kings that will get their power from the one world system. This is God's plan. Don't fear it. It is coming to pass and now we can watch and know what will happen as these prophecies occur. we'll move into the time of great deception, the tribulation. This beast is the same as the ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar's dream of Daniel 2.We saw the beast's teeth were of iron. What is it then that will break apart nations? It's his lies and deception.Daniel 7:8 "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in the horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things." Look at Revelations 17:10-11.Revelation 17:10 "And there are seven kings: five are fallen and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." Revelation 17:11 "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." These seven kings are all Satan (the son of perdition) in seven different time periods of the past. The "eighth is of the seven" because it is also Satan, as Antichrist. He will go to perdition (destruction) when his time is finished.Daniel has given us, in this seventh chapter, the four stages that this "one world government" will come (has come) into a reality. He has told us from which nations the solidification of this government would transpire, and we in this generation have lived to see this come to pass. We now have the new world order, though it is in a fragile state and about to be challenged; under Antichrist it will be solid. Only a small number of the elect will stand and know what is really going on, as the entire church world goes whoring after Antichrist.How could this little horn have the eyes of man, and the mouth to speak? Because Satan will be and appear as a man.Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Read Rev. 12:7-13 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?This man spoken of in Isa. 14 that destroys the cities and makes the world a wilderness is the same man as the little horn he also has a number its 666 the number of a man

 

[Jordan]

(Christina;63885)
Daniel 7:7 "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns." Many say this is a "non-descript beast". I think there is a good description given about this beast. Once you become familiar with the Book of Revelation, it is apparent what this description fits. This description is for the one world order. We call it the new world order. Though it is peaceful and does bring peace, it is for a very short time.To get a better description of this beast of the "new world order", let's look at Revelation 17:12. "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."The horn is symbolic of power, yet these ten kings will rule as the "one world order" system for one hour with Antichrist (Satan) when he walks upon this earth.It is obvious this fourth beast of Daniel 7:7 is very well described. It is very clear that this is that one world political power that rises out of the sea (the people or nations of the earth).Revelation 17:15 "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." So we see the ten horns are ten kings that will get their power from the one world system. This is God's plan. Don't fear it. It is coming to pass and now we can watch and know what will happen as these prophecies occur. we'll move into the time of great deception, the tribulation. This beast is the same as the ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar's dream of Daniel 2.We saw the beast's teeth were of iron. What is it then that will break apart nations? It's his lies and deception.Daniel 7:8 "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in the horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things." Look at Revelations 17:10-11.Revelation 17:10 "And there are seven kings: five are fallen and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." Revelation 17:11 "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." These seven kings are all Satan (the son of perdition) in seven different time periods of the past. The "eighth is of the seven" because it is also Satan, as Antichrist. He will go to perdition (destruction) when his time is finished.Daniel has given us, in this seventh chapter, the four stages that this "one world government" will come (has come) into a reality. He has told us from which nations the solidification of this government would transpire, and we in this generation have lived to see this come to pass. We now have the new world order, though it is in a fragile state and about to be challenged; under Antichrist it will be solid. Only a small number of the elect will stand and know what is really going on, as the entire church world goes whoring after Antichrist.How could this little horn have the eyes of man, and the mouth to speak? Because Satan will be and appear as a man.Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Read Rev. 12:7-13 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?This man spoken of in Isa. 14 that destroys the cities and makes the world a wilderness is the same man as the little horn he also has a number its 666 the number of a man
Great post Christina.And the good thing is Satan comes on the 5th / 6th trumpet. (Revelation 9:1) so it makes sense to have that number 666 as well.

 

[logabe]

Revelation 17:11 says,11 And the beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction [apoleian, “perdition”].The mysterious wording here can be confusing, if one does not know the history of Rome, and if one has not already studied Revelation 13. When John speaks of “the beast which was and is not,” he is referring to the same “beast from the sea” in Revelation 13. There we read in verse 3,3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast.Because this beast was slain, it “was not.” But because the “fatal wound was healed,” it came alive and “was” (that is, it existed again in a new form). This beast from sea is described in the same terms as the “little horn” that Daniel saw in Daniel 7. “John sees the beast coming from the sea primarily in its capacity as this “little horn,” the fifth manifestation of power in the earth. He speaks in Rev. 13:3 of one of the “heads” of this beast being given a fatal wound, and then this wound being healed. In other words, when the fourth kingdom (Rome) seemed to be killed in 476 A.D. an amazing thing happened—its wound seemed to be healed, and a fifth beast took power.“This fifth beast is a “horn” (that is, a power). Dan. 7:7, 8 makes it clear that this “horn” comes from the fourth beast with iron teeth (Rome). That is our first major clue as to its interpretation. The second, of course, is the fact that this “horn” assumes power after the fourth beast is slain. In other words, it is a successor to the Roman Empire. It is, in fact, Papal Rome.”Daniel spoke only of four major empires and then spoke of the “little horn” in connection with that fourth empire (Rome). The prophet was seeing two forms of the iron beast—Imperial Rome and Papal Rome. That “little horn” would then wage war on the saints until the coming of the Stone Kingdom in the second coming of Christ.John, on the other hand, sees greater detail than Daniel saw. John’s account supplements Daniel’s vision and enlarges upon this “little horn” emerging at the death of the Empire in 476 A.D. Whereas Daniel was seeing four beasts, plus a “little horn,” John was enlarging upon that fourth kingdom of iron, telling us that it would have seven forms of government.Obviously, the destruction of Daniel’s fourth beast occurred in 476, thus ending the seventh form of Roman government.The “little horn,” then really begins in 476 or shortly thereafter in the “little horn” (Daniel) or the healing of the fatal wound (John). If we merge the views of the two prophets, we see that Papal Rome was simply the Roman Empire healed and revived into a new religious form that would soon continue the war on the saints until they were all subdued under the authority of man.Papal Rome “is one of the seven” (Rev. 17:11) in the sense that the popes were no different from the pagan Roman emperors in the eyes of God. The popes persecuted people for thinking differently and for not recognizing papal authority as much as the emperors had done. Both emperors and popes sought for more power and money, and they were increasingly corrupted by more power and money they obtained.This corruption, of course, was prophesied in the leaven of the Pentecostal offering (Lev. 23:17). The law mandated leaven to be put into the Pentecostal offering in order to tell us that the Church would become corrupted as time passed.Also, the fact that John says “he goes to destruction” (apoleian) identifies the Church with Judas, the “son of perdition” (apoleian) in John 17:12. Judas was Jesus’ disciple who betrayed him for 30 pieces of silver. Even so, the Church is Jesus’ disciple that has betrayed Him for money once again. That spirit not only was in the Roman Church, but also has affected the Pentecostal Churches of the past century as well. The great harlot has become a “mother of harlots” (Rev. 17:5).Logabe

 

[precepts]

It's a good thing I know the depths of Satan and know his time is short. Satans workers are scrambling to hide the truth with their lies. Stick to the the facts and stop getting stuck on the pointed fence of ignorance.Satan nor his minions fade me. Stick to the facts and don't be a hypocrite.Precepts

 

[logabe]

Rev. 17:3 speaks also of ten horns on the seven heads. Picturing such a beast would be a bit awkward, unless three of the heads had two horns, while seven had a single horn. But we need not be so literal, because this is all very symbolic. The interpretation is given in verses 12, 13,12 And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. 13 These have one purpose and they give their power and authority to the beast.After the fall of the Roman Empire in 476 A.D., Western Europe was dominated by the Roman Church. There were “ten kings” that came under Church authority, though, as John says, they had no kingdom yet in the first century when John was alive. It is like a king without a kingdom, that is, a man who wants to be king.In this case, there were ten nations or ethnic groups in Europe that did not as yet have kingdoms of their own, because they were under the authority of the Roman Empire. They were: 1 Bavarians, 2 Franks, 3 Burgundians, 4 Alemanni, 5 Suvei, 6 Visigoths, 7 Alans 8 Vandals 9 Ostrogoths, 10 Lombards. Modern prophecy teachers often connect these ten kings to the ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar’s image in his dream in Daniel 2. And there is certainly that connection. However, the futurist view of revelation that has arisen in the past 150 years presumes a “gap” during the Church Age, and so they discount any fulfillment of Revelation from Jesus’ crucifixion to the rise of a future “antichrist.”Their view prevents them from considering the plain history of the Roman Empire, which, if studied, would prove their theory to be incorrect. They are awaiting events that have already occurred long ago, because they fail to study history. The result is that, to them, the book of Revelation is almost entirely future, when in fact it is almost entirely fulfilled now. We are not awaiting a rapture to fulfill a tortured interpretation of Revelation 4, but are now enmeshed in the fall of the great Babylonian system that is foretold in Revelation 17 and 18.The ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar’s image are made of iron and clay. The iron portion of the feet are the next stage of Roman development—specifically, the Roman Church in its conflict with the Islamic clay. The “feet” are not Imperial Rome, but Papal Rome. The “feet” represent a religious empire—in fact, two religious empires. The old Roman territory ultimately was divided into the Western Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, the latter of which was eventually conquered by the Islamic people.In Daniel 7:7, 19-24 we get another perspective from the prophet concerning the ten horns (kings). In speaking of the iron kingdom, Daniel 7:7 says that this iron beast had ten horns. Then a “little horn” (power) overthrew three of the ten horns and waged war against the saints.Modern Bible teachers who teach Futurism and who know little about actual history, presume that this “little horn” is a future “antichrist,” who will lead the European Market Nations (E.E.U.) in a FUTURE “revived Roman Empire.” This view held some credence forty years ago when there were only a few member nations. But now there are 25 member nations with more applying all the time, so many have abandoned that belief or at least have toned down the teaching. Yet they continue to teach Futurism rather than study history’s fulfillment of this prophecy in the Papacy and the Holy Roman Empire.The facts show that the Roman Church came directly out of the fall of the Roman Empire. This is the “little horn” power that made war on the saints. It was an oppressive power that martyred more Christians than the Roman Empire had done. The Roman Church would like very much for us to believe in a future antichrist, because such a view hides their own guilt and throws it upon a hypothetical man in the future.Daniel 7:24 says,24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom [Rome] ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.These ten horns did form ten independent kingdoms for a short season (“one hour”) after the demise of the Roman Empire. Three of them were forcibly subdued. However, in time, mostly by accepting the Roman Pontiff as their supreme head, they came under the dominion of Rome once again and thus lost their sovereignty. John tells us this detail in Rev. 17:13, 14,13 These have one purpose and they give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them . Logabe

 

[logabe]

Daniel 7 tells us that this “little horn” would wage war against the saints for “a time, times, and a half a time.” A “time” is 360 days or 360 years. In long-term prophecy it is 360 years. So this is a total of 1,260 years of domination and persecution of the saints. Revelation 13 interprets it as 42 months or 1,260 “days,” a day for a year. As we showed earlier, the most important 1,260 year period extends from 529 to 1789 A.D.Daniel 7:25 says of this “little horn,”25 And he will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the highest One. . . 26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.John enlarges upon this and interprets it to some extent for us in Revelation 17:14, 15,14 These [kings who have given their authority to the “beast” or the “little horn”] will wage war against the Lamb [arnion, “little lambs”], and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.It is of interest to note that the “Lamb” is from the Greek word arnion, rather than amnos. Amnos is used of Jesus Christ Himself, as in Acts 8:32, John 1:29, 36, and 1 Peter 1:19. It means the big, full-grown Lamb.Arnion is the lambkin, or little lamb. In John 21:15, Jesus tells Peter to “feed my lambs” (arnion). Needless to say, Jesus did not need to be fed, but the people did, because they were the sheep of His pasture (Ps. 100:3). In the book of Revelation, the arnion is the full body of Christ—the Head and the Body together. Thus, when the beast makes war upon the “saints of the Most High” in Daniel 7:14, John interprets it as the beast making war upon the arnion—the saints of the Most High.This state of war is a one-sided war, because lambs do not return violence for violence. The overcomers are those who have a lamb nature. Like Jesus, they do not require force or violence to establish His kingdom. They have faith that God will fulfill His word at the proper time. They will overcome the beast by the sword of their mouth, not by a sword in their hands. Their sword is the Word of God.Even so, Rev. 17:16, 17 says that God will use the ten kings (European nations) and the beast (the Church of Rome) to overthrow the harlot.16 And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. 17 For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God should be fulfilled.This verse makes it very evident that the beast isnot the harlot. So who is the harlot? That will be our next topic.Logabe

 

[Christina]

(logabe;63896)
Revelation 17:11 says,11 And the beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction [apoleian, “perdition”].The mysterious wording here can be confusing, if one does not know the history of Rome, and if one has not already studied Revelation 13. When John speaks of “the beast which was and is not,” he is referring to the same “beast from the sea” in Revelation 13. There we read in verse 3,3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast.Because this beast was slain, it “was not.” But because the “fatal wound was healed,” it came alive and “was” (that is, it existed again in a new form). This beast from sea is described in the same terms as the “little horn” that Daniel saw in Daniel 7. “John sees the beast coming from the sea primarily in its capacity as this “little horn,” the fifth manifestation of power in the earth. He speaks in Rev. 13:3 of one of the “heads” of this beast being given a fatal wound, and then this wound being healed. In other words, when the fourth kingdom (Rome) seemed to be killed in 476 A.D. an amazing thing happened—its wound seemed to be healed, and a fifth beast took power.“This fifth beast is a “horn” (that is, a power). Dan. 7:7, 8 makes it clear that this “horn” comes from the fourth beast with iron teeth (Rome). That is our first major clue as to its interpretation. The second, of course, is the fact that this “horn” assumes power after the fourth beast is slain. In other words, it is a successor to the Roman Empire. It is, in fact, Papal Rome.”Daniel spoke only of four major empires and then spoke of the “little horn” in connection with that fourth empire (Rome). The prophet was seeing two forms of the iron beast—Imperial Rome and Papal Rome. That “little horn” would then wage war on the saints until the coming of the Stone Kingdom in the second coming of Christ.John, on the other hand, sees greater detail than Daniel saw. John’s account supplements Daniel’s vision and enlarges upon this “little horn” emerging at the death of the Empire in 476 A.D. Whereas Daniel was seeing four beasts, plus a “little horn,” John was enlarging upon that fourth kingdom of iron, telling us that it would have seven forms of government.Obviously, the destruction of Daniel’s fourth beast occurred in 476, thus ending the seventh form of Roman government.The “little horn,” then really begins in 476 or shortly thereafter in the “little horn” (Daniel) or the healing of the fatal wound (John). If we merge the views of the two prophets, we see that Papal Rome was simply the Roman Empire healed and revived into a new religious form that would soon continue the war on the saints until they were all subdued under the authority of man.Papal Rome “is one of the seven” (Rev. 17:11) in the sense that the popes were no different from the pagan Roman emperors in the eyes of God. The popes persecuted people for thinking differently and for not recognizing papal authority as much as the emperors had done. Both emperors and popes sought for more power and money, and they were increasingly corrupted by more power and money they obtained.This corruption, of course, was prophesied in the leaven of the Pentecostal offering (Lev. 23:17). The law mandated leaven to be put into the Pentecostal offering in order to tell us that the Church would become corrupted as time passed.Also, the fact that John says “he goes to destruction” (apoleian) identifies the Church with Judas, the “son of perdition” (apoleian) in John 17:12. Judas was Jesus’ disciple who betrayed him for 30 pieces of silver. Even so, the Church is Jesus’ disciple that has betrayed Him for money once again. That spirit not only was in the Roman Church, but also has affected the Pentecostal Churches of the past century as well. The great harlot has become a “mother of harlots” (Rev. 17:5).Logabe
I say again remember Daniel was told to shut up the book until the End it is about the Entire world not a single church. the two wittness lie in streets of Jerusalem the Antichrist comits the Abomination of desolation in Jerusalem not Rome. The language is very specific if we put the picture together Perdition means eternally damed sense no human has been judged yet and will not be until the white throne judgement not even Judas if you remenber.. it was Satan that entered Judas... Judas repented ..We have to believe this sense this is written repentance means forgiveness ... or what good would repentance be.. We would have to throw out the message of scripture..There is only one we are told who is already judged into Perdition to eternal damnation.. he is the same man as the man of sin that is the same man of Isa. 14 above Satan 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

 

[Christina]

Revelation: In chapter 13 we will find the rise of two beasts. One will be the rise of a one world political system and the other will be the rise of the religious beast which is the anti-Christ. In this chapter we will find several analogies that many find confusing, but if we follow this chapter verse by verse and stay focused on the subject and object in His Word, it all comes together. 1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. In Revelation 17:15 it tells us that the waters represent the mass of people from every race and nation. Out of the waters are the people that the one world political system will rise from. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. Swift like a leopard, trample like a bear, and the tearing power of the lion. Satan's spiritual powers will utilize this political system, or one world order. 3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. This one world power will almost come together but it receives a deadly wound and fall apart. But, Satan will come as anti-Christ playing the roll of Jesus to heal the wound and bring it all together. Much of the world will marvel at this miracle and follow after Satan. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? Many will worship Satan and the political system. This is when the spiritual war will take place against him. 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. Satan's prophecy is always given in months or moons. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. He blasphemes Gods temple and all who are in heaven. This is the time when Satan comes to power and claims to be God. Christ spoke of this blasphemy in (Luke 12:8-12) about the hour of temptation when some will be delivered up to anti-Christ. Paul speaks of this time in (II Thessalonians 2:2-12) as it is the time just before the true Christ returns. 7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. This is the time when Satan makes war against God's people and the two witnesses when he kills them.

 

[logabe]

Judas supported the Jewish leaders and betrayed Jesus. Judas is thus called "the son of perdition" in John 17:12. Paul says in 2 Thess. 2:3, 4, 3 Let no man in any way deceive you; for it will not come unless the apostasy [ apostasia, "casting away'] comes first, and the man of lawlessness [ anomia ] be revealed [ apokaluphthe, "unveiled"], the son of destruction [perdition], 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Paul spoke of this event as taking place in the future. He links it to the "day of the Lord," which, Paul says, will not take place until the "apostasy" first takes place and the unveiling of the man of lawlessness. We know from this that the "day of the Lord" had not yet occurred when Paul wrote his epistle. The "day of the Lord" was the time that the enemies of Christ would be overthrown, and Christ would be given His rightful place as Heir of all things. That is, He would be given both the dominion mandate of Judah and the fruitfulness mandate of Joseph. But for this to take place, the usurper must be exposed, overthrown, and cast away. It is self-evident that in all this there is "apostasy." But the word apostasia literally means "a casting away," not a "falling away," as if someone passively fell. The word apostasia is used again in Acts 21:21, where Paul was accused of teaching the people to "forsake" Moses. The word literally means to "cast away" Moses. In that sense, the word can refer to an apostasy FROM the law of Moses. But it literally means to cast away Moses. So in 2 Thess. 2:3 Paul uses the term again. Something must first be cast aside before the day of the Lord can come. What is it that must be cast away? Paul seems to be saying that the "man of lawlessness" and "son of destruction" must be cast away first. The man of lawlessness is not the same as the son of destruction. The son of destruction is obviously a reference to Judas (John 17:12). The man of lawlessness seems to refer to the Jewish leaders themselves, who had usurped the throne in a lawless manner. In Acts 2:23 Peter says in his pentecostal sermon, 23 this man [Jesus], delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless [anomos, " LAWLESS "] men and put Him to death. This same Greek word anomos ("lawless") is used again in 2 Thess. 2:8, where Paul says that "the lawless one will be revealed " or unveiled by Christ's coming. I do not know why the NASB (quoted above) used the term "godless" instead of lawless. Their mistranslation makes little sense. The Greek word for "godless" is atheos. This word is used in Eph. 2:12, where it speaks of the "gentiles" as " having no hope and without God [atheos, "godless"] in the world." On the other hand, the Greek word anomos comes from the word nomos, which means law. The "a" makes it negative, "lawless." The fulfillment of the role of "man of lawlessness" and "son of destruction" is no longer a role played by a single individual such as Judas. In the second appearance of Christ, the role is played by a company of people. The man of lawlessness is to be thought of as a collective noun. So Paul was drawing upon his knowledge of the events in Jerusalem surrounding Jesus' betrayal and crucifixion when he penned the letter to the Thessalonian Church. He saw the man of lawlessness as a corporate body of evil figs led by the chief priests of the temple. Paul saw the son of destruction, or son of perdition, as Judas, the betrayer who helped them usurp the throne and the dominion mandate from Jesus, the rightful King. Paul says that this "man of sin," in usurping the throne of God in His temple, had replaced Jesus Christ as King. This "man of sin" then " takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God " (2 Thess. 2:4). Verses 7, 8 continue, 7 The mystery of lawlessness is already at work, only He [God] who now restrains [the evil figs] will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 And then that lawless one will be revealed ["unveiled"] whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming. Paul is saying that the evil figs who have usurped the throne of God in His temple will be exposed, revealed, or unveiled at the time of Christ's second appearance. Is this the antichrist ? Yes, of course it is, but it refers specifically to the leaders of Zionist Jewry and also to the leaders of Judaism in general, all of whom are lawless by biblical definition. These rabbinic leaders have blinded the eyes of the common Jews into supporting the revolt of Absalom against David-that is, the Jewish leaders against Jesus. Just as the Body of Christ is a many membered body...but just one Body... the Son of Destruction also consist of many people with the same intention as the spirit of Judas. That spirit is alive and well even today.Logabe

 

[logabe]

Likewise, most Christian prophecy teachers today see the rise of antichrist as really a new thing, with very little biblical precedent. They generally do not see (or choose to ignore) the story of Absalom and Ahithophel and how this was a prophetic allegory of the New Testament events. Very few understand how these things have been repeated in the twentieth century with the rise of Zionism and the "State of Israel." For this reason, much of Church teaching has misled the people into becoming one with Judas, betraying their Friend and Master. It is God, though, who has blinded the eyes of His people in order that the Scriptures might be fulfilled. Even as Israel 's eyes were blinded during the entire forty years that Moses led them in the wilderness (Deut. 29:4), so also has the "church in the wilderness" (Acts 7:38) of the New Testament been blinded during its forty Jubilees of wandering under the anointing of Pentecost. None of this could have happened if God had opened the eyes of His people. Many are expecting a "rapture" to remove the Church from the earth at the beginning, middle, or end of a seven-year tribulation. During this tribulation, they say, the Antichrist will appear as a world leader and will set up his headquarters in a newly-rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. It is NOT an escape from the earth, but a transformation of the body. The overcomers who fulfill the Feast of Tabernacles will have the ability to do as Jesus did after His resurrection. They will be able to "travel" freely between heaven and earth, first teaching people on earth and then ministering to the Father in heaven. Whether or not a single Jewish leader will emerge as the Antichrist or not, we will wait and see. It makes little difference, though. The important thing to know is that the entire evil fig tree deserves no Christian support, either financial or political. It must be that the lawless ones must usurp the dominion and fruitfulness mandates, but we ought to remain faithful disciples of Jesus Christ and be willing, if necessary, to live with David in the wilderness, rather than in the palace under Absalom. As for the idea of the tribulation and its duration, we must reserve this topic for another post. It is unfortunate that almost never is a topic complete in itself. But this much is written that you may know and not be taken by surprise when events happen in a way different from what Christian prophecy teachers are saying. Logabe

 

[Christina]

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree because it is just plain not true that Judas has been already been Judged to utter destruction No man has ever yet been judged. Futher more Judas had no way of knowing Christ would die. As Even Ponus Pilate did not find him guilty the mob of people decided his fate. He repented of his sins we are not told it wasnt accepted so to say he was not repentant and is judged to utter destruction is to deny. The very message of scripture itself. Luk 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. Luk 22:4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them. It was clearly Satan that betrayed Christ not Judas there is only one son of Pertion and that is Satan and he must come first. If you believe that the reformers correctly interpted what was closed up/ sealed to them by God until the End guess you will have to go ahead.But I know it not to be true. So no sense going on I know scripture have read it all know hebrew and greek and there is not a scriptual argument you can make to change my mind. And yours is made up so guess we will move on.

 

[Jordan]

(Christina;63949)
Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree because it is just plain not true that Judas has been already been Judged to utter destruction No man has ever yet been judged. Futher more Judas had no way of knowing Christ would die. As Even Ponus Pilate did not find him guilty the mob of people decided his fate. He repented of his sins we are not told it wasnt accepted so to say he was not repentant and is judged to utter destruction is to deny. The very message of scripture itself. Luk 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. Luk 22:4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them. It was clearly Satan that betrayed Christ not Judas there is only one son of Pertion and that is Satan and he must come first. If you believe that the reformers correctly interpted what was closed up/ sealed to them by God until the End guess you will have to go ahead.But I know it not to be true. So no sense going on I know scripture have read it all know hebrew and greek and there is not a scriptual argument you can make to change my mind. And yours is made up so guess we will move on.
I agree with you Christina. Judas repented of himself. (Matthew 27:3) Satan is sentence to the second death. (Isaiah 14:12-16, Ezekiel 28:18)Again, Christina, where do they get there information from? It came from the woodwork lately.

 

[Christina]

(Jordan;63950)
I agree with you Christina. Judas repented of himself. (Matthew 27:3) Satan is sentence to the second death. (Isaiah 14:12-16, Ezekiel 28:18)Again, Christina, where do they get there information from? It came from the woodwork lately.
Amos 8:11-12 Jordan most perfer to either believe reformers whom wernt meant to see what was closed to them. They believe not, what is written, but what men say in their own interptations was implied. Or they believe the Rapture lie of men.

 

[bullfighter]

« Pope Benedict XVI advocates the revival of Sunday worship in Europe.(Alberto Pizzoli/AFP/Getty Images) The EU Must Keep Sunday, Says Catholic ChurchNovember 18, 2008 | From theTrumpet.com The Catholic Church wants Sunday observance enshrined in EU law. The European Parliament is debating changes to its Working Time Directive. The Vatican wants a clause in this law that would force every citizen in the European Union to rest on Sunday. A hideously socialist piece of legislation, the Working Time Directive currently makes it illegal for those working, with some exceptions, in the EU to work for more than 48 hours a week. Workers in the UK are currently allowed to opt out of its provisions. The bill is being revised. During the second reading, in October, seven Members of the European Parliament tabled an amendment saying that the minimum rest period “shall in principle include Sunday.” The Brussels-based Commission of the Bishops’ Conferences of the European Community (comece) agrees, recommending the directive should say “the minimal weekly rest must include Sunday.” The amendment stated, “The likelihood of sickness in companies that require staff to work on Sundays is greater than in companies that do not require staff to work on Sundays. The health of workers depends, among other factors, on their opportunities to reconcile work and family life, to establish and maintain social ties and to pursue their spiritual needs. Sunday, as the traditional weekly rest day, contributes to these objectives more than any other day of the week.” The amendment never went to vote, drawing criticism from Catholic bishops across Europe. Piotr Mazurkiewicz, secretary general of comece, was incensed. The protection of Sunday, he said, “is a cornerstone of the European social model and an issue of central importance for workers and their families.” The Working Time Directive will be discussed once more in December, and Europe’s Catholic bishops want this issue brought up. The pope has been a strong advocate of the revival of Sunday keeping. “Without Sunday [worship] we cannot live!” Pope Benedict xvi declared during a mass on September 9 last year, stating that it was a “necessity” for all people. The prospect of a European government so powerful that it could declare one specific day a day of rest is a frightening one. This would be an EU willing and able to enforce lifestyle changes on its subjects, whether they liked it or not. It would be a Europe that enforced a state religion—Catholicism. The enforcement of Sunday worship will be the mark of a powerful, Vatican-allied, European superpower. For more information, see our article “The Pope Trumpets Sunday” • i believe i have the right to share this,.i am not a sda.and i believe that from bible versus this is true.that sunday is a false day to worship.now take it easy on me kriss.i am a person seeking truth and know you were hurt or think so .by the sda.i believe sabbath is saturday and it is important for all christians to see that.i believe it is proven in the bible .you may differ on that .that does not mean you should delete me because you see things different..