Mary’s children?

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n2thelight

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Mary, the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ, has been the subject of much speculation, primarily because so little is known about her. But one thing the Bible clearly indicates about Mary is that she had other children. How many children Mary had is up for speculation.

Luke 1 records Mary’s conversation with the angel Gabriel, who told her she was to be the mother of God’s Messiah. At that time, Mary was a young virgin engaged to be married to a man named Joseph. Some have taught that, due to the sacred nature of the virgin birth, Mary had no other children and remained a virgin throughout her life. However, Matthew 1:24–25 seems to counter that teaching and imply that Mary had other children: “When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.” The key word that tells us that Mary had other children after Jesus is until.

Until means “up to the time of.” It implies that an action did occur after a prescribed pause. Matthew did not end the sentence by saying, “He did not consummate their marriage.” He says, “He did not consummate their marriage until. . . .” This wording indicates that the action (of consummating the marriage) did occur after the birth of Christ. Matthew also makes a point of telling us that Joseph “took Mary home as his wife.” Matthew’s readers would naturally conclude that Mary became Joseph’s wife in every sense of the word. There is no scriptural evidence to support the assertion that Mary remained a perpetual virgin or that she had no other children. In fact, the Bible tells us the opposite.

Mark 6:3 records people becoming angry with Jesus when He taught in His hometown. They rejected Him as a prophet and responded, “‘Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?’ And they took offense at him.” This passage indicates that Mary had at least seven children, including Jesus. There were at least thirty years between the time of Jesus’ birth and this encounter, which allows plenty of time for other children to have joined the family as Jesus’ siblings.

John 2:12 gives us another hint as we answer the question of whether Mary had other children: “After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples.” The fact that the words brothers and disciples are both used means that John was not referring to “spiritual” brothers but to familial relationships. The “brothers” and the “disciples” were different groups. Matthew 12:46 records a time when Jesus’ mother and brothers came to speak with Him. Mother and brothers, used as a phrase, implies a familial relationship. Scripture gives us no reason to think these were not the biological children of Mary.

Did Mary have other children? How many children did Mary have? | GotQuestions.org
 

Taken

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I already have studied. Refer back to post #9 for my conclusions. You have yet to show how you have anything beyond citing Matt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3, and Gal. 1:19, and saying, "See! Simon, Joseph, James, and Judas are Jesus's brothers, and thus are biological!" because you read the word "brother." Until you do, all you have is an assumption.

Nope! You can only speak for yourself.
Assumption is your conclusion, not mine.

•Joseph and Mary are (Earthly Lawful parents) of Jesus.
•Jesus is Supernaturally, the son of man, Virgin Mary's "Firstborn".
•Christ Jesus is the Supernatural, Son of God, sent forth out from God (in Heaven, To Earth) in the LIKENESS, as an Earthly man, in a Body, God PREPARED, to Accomplish WORKS, according to GODS WILL.
•Mary and her husband Joseph are Biological parents of Simon, Joseph, James, Judas and unnamed daughters. (Their births, occurring After, Jesus' birth)
•All are a "man's Lawful" family unit.
UNDER (Gentile's) man's law, UNDER Jewish Law, the children, in the family of a married couple, are all brothers and sisters.
•All in this family unit...through Their "LAWFUL", parents, ARE "brothers and sisters", by RACE, Race being, their "Tribal" Relationship; The Tribe of Judah, that God Established.
•Further established is: brothers and sisters;
(Not requiring a biological, or Tribal Race relationship, or Gentile relationship),
...which is a Spiritual Relationship.
This Spiritual Relationship, IS EXPRESSLY Established, By one Individual's Heartful Belief: In the Heavenly God and Jesus is The Christ.
•All "individuals", WHO; heartfully Believe; Become: "made", Spiritual brothers and sisters, "IN" Christ.
•Men can "make accounting records" or WHO "men think" are Spiritual brothers and sisters,
HOWEVER-
The TRUE Accounting Record, iS expressly, recorded by and kept by the Lord God Himself, who IS Spirit.

•The Scriptural Account-
Identifies expressly- Mary Receiving ...
salvation, of her soul, for her belief.
Mary Receiving...quickening of her spirit, establishing her "Born Again", and thus a Spiritual Relationship "IN" Christ, and thus, a Spiritual sister IN Christ to All others IN Christ.

The Scriptural Account-
Identifies, James specific, of Joseph's and Mary's "family unit", as a Jew, strong in Jewish Faith and accepting of Christ Jesus.

If you don't get the range of Relationships, lawful per Tribes, Biological, Spiritual...that is your diligence to study and discover.
I am not responsible for your understanding or lack thereof.
 

Taken

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Mary, the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ, has been the subject of much speculation, primarily because so little is known about her. But one thing the Bible clearly indicates about Mary is that she had other children. How many children Mary had is up for speculation.

Luke 1 records Mary’s conversation with the angel Gabriel, who told her she was to be the mother of God’s Messiah.


This ^ is IMO, part of the controversy ...
Mary gave birth to ... a son, called her first born, son of man, called Jesus, called a holy thing.

Clearly...Scripture reveals "what he " Shall Be called"... NOT what he was called, during her pregnancy.

It was later, what he was called.
Yet, teaching ...of what was revealed later, after his birth, corruptly becomes, what was, before his birth, and saying Mary, (was the mother of God, teaching)...
When God IS Eternal, without father or mother.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Agree with the rest of your post.
 

Wrangler

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According to your logic, because I called you "brother," that makes us biological siblings.

Your desperate Appeal to Strawman is ridiculous! The Bible is not you, with your nefarious motives. The Bible is supposed to be the Word of God, who does not lie. When the Word says James is the brother of Jesus, that has meaning. Meaning that goes against your theology.
 

Behold

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I can present "extrabiblical" text that covers the chastity of the Blessed Virgin Mary and Joseph and is in perfect consonance with the canonical Gospels. Do you automatically dismiss it merely because it is not mentioned in the Bible, despite your agreement that not everything there is to know is in the Bible?

1 Corinthians 9:5 should solve the "who are the brothers, who are the brethren". confusion you have.

Paul speaking...

"""""""""Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas""""

Notice that Paul makes the distinction between Peter, Himself, the apostles and the "BROTHER's" of the LORD.

= Mary had other children.
 

Taken

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I have studied. Refer back to post #9 for my conclusions using scripture to support Jesus did not have biological brothers

So? I never said Jesus had "biological" brothers, sisters, father, or mother!


as if the verses themselves prove they are Jesus's biological brothers.

Nope. I said no such thing.
You are the one who "assumed" and brought up your assumption of a "biological" relationsip of "Jesus" to brothers, I didn't.

It is because the word "brother" has a range of meanings that you need to present more than that to support your position.


Covered it fully. Can't understand it FOR you.

You asked me to present scripture that supports the Blessed Virgin Mary and [St.] Joseph continued to be chaste by choice in their marriage. I said it is not mentioned in the Bible,

Correct, no Biblical Verification, for you claim.

but then nor are the specifics surrounding their betrothal and marriage, yet that information must exist, and it does.

Scripture reveals their Tribal race, Marriage customs, Their marriage.
If you have some need to know details, of dates, clothing, what they ate, the bridal price paid, if she had ribbons in her hair, if it was raining, what Mary's mommy and daddy said, blah blah details, who cares? Not relevant!

Therefore, the following counter-argument: "That is not in the Bible and thus it is automatically false" is insufficient.

That is your "assumption", your " ", I didn't say that.

You make a claim, say it is Not in Scripture...
Okay. I have no obligation to Agree with you.
I have no way to Scripturally VERIFY, what you claim.

You further make the Implication, that publications, outside of Scripture, are sufficient for you to rely on, and believe, that fills in "details", that ARE NOT in Scripture.

That's Your choice. Not mine...and Not Scripturally Taught.

I can present "extrabiblical" text that covers the chastity of the Blessed Virgin Mary and Joseph and is in perfect consonance with the canonical Gospels.

LOL- "no thanks".
Not interested in some man, I do not know, philosophical views and writings.

Col 2:
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

There is a reason for the Warning.

Do you automatically dismiss it merely because it is not mentioned in the Bible, [/B]

"Automatically dismiss", -Again your words, not mine.

MERELY?
wow. No interest in playing Minimizing the Scripture game.


despite your agreement that not everything there is to know is in the Bible?

I choose to trust Scripture.
I choose to Rely on Scripture for verification.

Dismissing, Not trusting, Disagreeing...has nothing to do with Scripture, and everything to do with...differences between you and I.

You can dismiss, Trust, disagree with whatever you decide, and so can I, without you trying to put your words in my mouth.
 

theefaith

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Willfully ignorant. Scriptures have been posted here numerous times that say Jesus had brothers and sisters.

so you say
Cousins I say
Either way Mary is a perpetual Virgin and that’s catholic and divine revelation
Bound on earth bound in heaven but the holy apostles in council
 

Behold

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so you say
Cousins I say
Either way Mary is a perpetual Virgin l

1 Corinthians 9:5 should solve the "who are the brothers, who are the brethren". confusion you have.

Paul speaking...

"""""""""Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas""""

Notice that Paul makes the distinction between Peter, Himself, the apostles and the "BROTHER's" of the LORD.

= Mary had other children.
 

theefaith

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1 Corinthians 9:5 should solve the "who are the brothers, who are the brethren". confusion you have.

Paul speaking...

"""""""""Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas""""

Notice that Paul makes the distinction between Peter, Himself, the apostles and the "BROTHER's" of the LORD.

= Mary had other children.

does not say Mary’s children
Could be children of Joseph from a prior marriage
Peter is the head and prince of the apostles do he is always going to be singled out
 

Behold

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does not say Mary’s children
Could be children of Joseph from a prior marriage

Well, The Eastern Orthodox Church and Catholic Tradition both teach that Mary is a lot of things, she isn't.
So, when you are manufacturing lies, then you lie BIG.... as religious people will believe a big crazy lie, especially when its manufactured by their Church.
If you want to believe the lies, then that is your right.
You even have the right to keep repeating them as your church would want you to keep doing.
Freewill is your God given right, so, enter that right in Public, at your own risk.

However, the verse says its the Lord's "Brothers."
Common sense would explain and should reveal to you that God is not going to bring a divorced man or a widower to marry Mary.
But God did bring Joseph who is of the linage of David, as is Mary.
Jesus's "brothers', are not adopted, as Mary conceived them with Joseph's help, later.
 

theefaith

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Well, The Eastern Orthodox Church and Catholic Tradition both teach that Mary is a lot of things, she isn't.
So, when you are manufacturing lies, then you lie BIG.... as religious people will believe a big crazy lie, especially when its manufactured by their Church.
If you want to believe the lies, then that is your right.
You even have the right to keep repeating them as your church would want you to keep doing.
Freewill is your God given right, so, enter that right in Public, at your own risk.

However, the verse says its the Lord's "Brothers."
Common sense would explain and should reveal to you that God is not going to bring a divorced man or a widower to marry Mary.
But God did bring Joseph who is of the linage of David, as is Mary.
Jesus's "brothers', are not adopted, as Mary conceived them with Joseph's help, later.

nowhere does scripture say anyone is a child Mary accept Jesus by the miracle of the Holy Spirit and Christians are her spiritual children

what about other lies?
Mother of God
Mother of our salvation
Etc. ?
 

Wrangler

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This is about your logic. You said, "Brother means biological, by default" in post #96. Therefore, according to your logic, because I called you "brother" (#124) that makes us biological siblings.

It’s not logic but word definitions. You are the illogical one, using words improperly. Brother, literally means biological. If you want to use the word figuratively, the burden is on you to qualify it soul sister.
 

theefaith

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This is about your logic. You said, "Brother means biological, by default" in post #96. Therefore, according to your logic, because I called you "brother" (#124) that makes us biological siblings.

brother does not imply mother
Especially Mary of which scripture is clear
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

one child!

lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? (no sex) implies a consecration to God
 

theefaith

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How ironic the only thing the so called reformers agreed on was the perpetual Virginity of Mary mother of God!
 

theefaith

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Mother of God
Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D.

If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.

Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
 

Behold

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nowhere does scripture say anyone is a child Mary accept Jesus by the miracle of the Holy Spirit and Christians are her spiritual children

what about other lies?
Mother of God
Mother of our salvation
Etc. ?

The verses, quite a few, state that Jesus has brothers, and that they are of Jesus's "household", ect, ect, ect.
But, why keep posting it?
You'll just ignore it and say what you keep saying.
 

theefaith

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The verses, quite a few, state that Jesus has brothers, and that they are of Jesus's "household", ect, ect, ect.
But, why keep posting it?
You'll just ignore it and say what you keep saying.

the truth marches on
Who Mary is says who Jesus is
From gen 3:15 to rev 12:1
she is “thee sign” Isa 7:14
God with us!

gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

total war between Mary and Satan

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

rev 12:1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Rev 12 the war between Mary and satan
 

Wrangler

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I merely called you "brother," and to you, I could only have used that word to mean "born of the same father and/or mother," because of your following logic: "Brother means biological by default" (#96). Therefore, we are biological siblings in your view.

Repeating your abuse of language does not make my logic wrong. The Buddha said the beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name.

You are not wise because you are deliberately calling things by improper names. It's so odd that you want to hold others to interpret as you want, your abuse of language.