Retrobyter said:
Shalom, veteran.
Truly,...
Proverbs 10:19
19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.
KJV
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Should try applying that Proverbs Scripture to yourself sometime, especially since you think your long Scripture cut and pasty posts support your ideas.
I have NEVER heard such a ridiculous claim in all my life! "Jesus of Nazareth was NOT a JEW"?! Are you even listening to your own stupidity?! You even contradicted yourself in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE! "He was a Nazarene born of the tribe of Judah, decendent of David (and of Levi from Mary's lineage)." First, that PROVES that Yeshua` was/is a Y'hudiy (Jew), born of the tribe of Y'hudah (Judah)!
That's right, Jesus was NOT a Jew. Why? Because to be a Jew at the time of His first coming meant adhering to what Apostle Paul called the "Jews' religion". It was VERY obvious Jesus The Christ did NOT adhere to the doctrines of the Jews, that of the scribes and Pharisees and Sadduccees. And since that time, the religion of the Jews has been those very doctrines of the Pharisees. Today it is called Judaism. How much brain power does it require for one to understand that Judaism is NOT Christianity and not of Christ?
Rev 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
(KJV)
The Jewish historian Josephus said the title of 'Jew' began with those of the "house of Judah" that returned to Jerusalem from the 70 years Babylon captivity. He said the foreigners living in the land all took that title also. Tell me, HOW can a FOREIGNER be a JEW? Sammy Davis, Jr. was a Jew, how can that be? Per Esther 8, for fear of the Jews, many of the foreigners of that time became... Jews. How can that be? Per Josephus also, many of the Edomites from the family of Esau later became Jews after Israel conquered the nation of Edom. How can an Idumean from Esau be a JEW?
It's simple. It's because all one need do is convert to the "Jews' religion" and that makes them a JEW, even today, which is what Sammy Davis, Jr. did. So going around applying the title of Jew as if it always means one born of Israel is a joke, and to be laughed at.
For you to prove you are a blood-born Israelite, you'd have to have genealogy going all the way back at least to the times of the prophets Ezra and Nehemiah, and it would have to be of one of the 12 tribes of Israel. You want us to honestly believe you can provide that? No problem with Jesus' lineage from Mary, which is why it is given in The New Testament.
Second, you have a twisted view of Yeshua`s lineage if you think that Miryam's (Mary's) lineage was also "of Levi!" There is no such claim in the Scriptures! To the contrary, the lineage of Miryam given in Luke 3 also notes David through Y'hudah! Miryam and Eliysheva` were relatives - cousins - but not by blood but by MARRIAGE! This is revealed in Hebrews:
Since Mary's cousin Elisabeth was a descendent of Aaron, Mary's mother was where the connection to Aaron was. I won't get into the false Talmudic claim of Jesus being a son of fictional Pandera. All the Hebrews 5-7 chapters reveal is that Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah, but that He spiritually is forever a Priest after the order of Melchisedic, which is put for a Heavenly Priesthood above the flesh order. Mary's lineage having a son of Aaron in it no way detracts from Christ as a Priest after the order of Melchisedec. If it did, then Christ being a Son of David born of Judah would also detract from His Office of Priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Here are some verses that prove that Yeshua` was/is indeed a Jew:
Matthew 2:1-2
1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
KJV
Those men (not born of Israel), coming from the east to see Baby Jesus, would naturally... associate the prophecy with the only people of Israel left in the land that they knew of at the time, those living in the lands of Judea. Did that mean then that only those of the tribe of Judah were meant? Of course not, because the title of Jew first began to be used by those of the "house of Judah" that were separated from the 10 northern tribes of Israel. The "house of Judah" included the tribes of Benjamin and Levi also. Apostle Paul himself said he was a Jew, born of the tribe of Benjamin (Rom.11:1; Acts 21:39). And FOREIGNERS took that title of Jew also! So that Scripture does nothing to establish a Jew meaning genealogy only.
Matthew 27:11
11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
KJV
It's funny that you'd try to use that, since Jesus never agreed to that title others tried to apply to Him. You will not anywhere in Bible Scripture that Jesus claimed that title, or said that He was a Jew.
Matthew 27:29
29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
KJV
More Scripture cut & paste FODDER you're supplying that does nothing to prove your claims. You can't even read simple words like "mocked Him" there, which is what they were doing by calling Him by that title.
Matthew 27:35-37
35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
36 And sitting down they watched him there;
37 And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
KJV
Same thing, that title and sign being just an accusation by Pilate and his helpers. Skip the others and let's get to John's coverage of it...
John 18:33-37
33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto Him, "Art Thou the King of the Jews?"
34 Jesus answered him, "Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of Me?"
35 Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered Thee unto me: what hast Thou done?"
36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence."
37 Pilate therefore said unto Him, "Art thou a king then?" Jesus answered, "Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth My voice."
(KJV)
Obvioulsy, Jesus DENIED the title "King of the Jews". He even asked Pilate if he came up with that idea or did others say it to him. To stir up the Jews, Pilate put up the sign with that title on it, and the Jews asked Pilate to take it down. So there, Jesus is NOT "King of the Jews".
So Pilate then asked our Lord Jesus if He were a King. Jesus did not deny that, agreed to that title, then proclaimed His Kingdom was not of this present world. That means He is NOT the "King of the Jews" also.
How many ways does it need to be said?! Are you WILLFULLY IGNORANT?
Now, when you said, "He was a Nazarene born of the tribe of Judah, decendent of David (and of Levi from Mary's lineage). The meaning of the word 'JEW' no longer simply means one born of Israel from the historical 'house of Judah' per OT history (per Josephus). Since the religious traditions of the scribes and Pharisees and foreigner priests from Esau took over in Jerusalem and in the world of Jewry, the word means one who adheres to their system doctrines of JUDAISM," you are once again ASSUMING such a regime and definition change! You just hate Jews! Why don't you just admit that so we can move on? (Moronic!)
I don't hate anyone. I just hate what people do, sometimes myself included, because of the body of sin. Josephus' history of the Jews is pretty clear, even though the Jews mostly deny his writings. Yet he filled the gap of the Jews' history between Old and New Testaments pretty well. The title of Jew originated from the name of the tribe of Judah, and I've already shown you Biblically that title also... applies to others, including foreigners not born of Israel (like Esther 8). Per 1 Chronicles 2:55 the scribes were of the Kenite peoples, a people that lived among the Canaanites. 1 Kings 9 reveals the leftovers from the Canaanites became bondservants to Israel. That's why some of the priests that went captive with the "house of Judah" returned with them after a remnant returned from Babylon (per Ezra 2). That is one of the main reasons why the "house of Judah" LOST possesssion of David's throne and... the kingdom, and the temple, and control in the holy lands, even as it is today. They allowed false ones to creep in, even with the Kenite scribes who were put in charge of keeping the letters of God's Word, and even allowing foreigners to become priests in Israel. The result = corruption of false Canaanite traditions that caused them to reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, so that God moved His vineyard out of their possession and care (parable of the husbandmen in Matt.21).
That's why the last verse of Zech.14, which is for the time of Christ's future thousand years reign, says the following...
Zech 14:20-21
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein:
and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
(KJV)
Those Canaanites are still mixed in among the Jews today.
I'm not trying to "ride the fence," bro', you're just not willing to LISTEN TO THE TEACHINGS OF PAUL OR YESHUA! You Gentile "Christians" are to be coming together, worshipping God WITH the Jews instead of having your "good ol' boy" exclusive club!!!
Yes, you are trying to ride the fence, especially since you have claimed special status for Jews. The good 'ol boy exclusive club is of the JEWS' making.