Maybe I Am Not Understanding the Post Tribulation Rapture. - Can You Help?

[The Light]

The seals are not the events. They sealed the scroll AFTER the events were already written. The loosening of the seals are the Revelation of Jesus Christ - who was found worthy to loosen the seals for us - regarding the events written about in the scroll.

The symbols and imagery seen in each seal when it is loosened, opens our understanding to the events (already written in the scroll).

The seals are events. The 1st four seals are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24...........False Christ, war, pestilences, famine.
The 5th seal is the great tribulation of Matthew 24. The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24..........For a harvest. The 7th is the wrath of God.

So each seal when opened is an event. John had a vision of what happens as each seal is opened.

 

[The Light]

YES... those Matthew 24:39-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scriptures are describing the day of Jesus future 2nd coming to gather His faithful saints, after... the tribulation like He said there. Per Zechariah 9:9-10 there are only two advents of Christ Jesus written. His 1st coming was meek as a lamb to die on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who believe. His 2nd coming will be to take reign over all peoples and nations upon this earth as KING of kings, and LORD of lords, His faithful saints reigning with Him on earth.

And yes, I am Post-trib. because that is what The Scriptures reveal.

Moreover, the Matthew 24:29-31 gathering of the saints version aligns with the asleep saints Jesus brings with Him when He descends to earth per 1 Thess.4:13-16.

And the Mark 13:24-27 version aligns with the gathering of the saints that are still alive when Jesus comes, their being "caught up" in the air to Jesus and the asleep saints He brings with Him to earth from Heaven.

Then the Zechariah 14 Chapter continues where Paul left off in 1 Thess.4, showing that Jesus will return with those saints to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, which is where Jesus ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. Jesus is going to reign at Jerusalem with His elect gathered saints on the earth.

Thank you, Davy.

 

[ewq1938]

So each seal when opened is an event. John had a vision of what happens as each seal is opened.

Nope. John just saw future events. The events did not happen in real time when the seal was opened.

 

[The Light]

Nope. John just saw future events.

Exactly. John just saw future events.

The events did not happen in real time when the seal was opened.

The seals are not opened so the events have not happened yet.

When each seal, which John had a vision of, is actually opened, the event will occur.

 

[ewq1938]

Exactly. John just saw future events.


The seals are not opened so the events have not happened yet.

They are all opened. Even the text shows Jesus opening all of them in quick succession not waiting hundreds of years before opening seals.

When each seal, which John had a vision of, is actually opened, the event will occur.

No, the events do not happen when the seals are opened. It's only prophecy being shown of future events.

 

[Button]

I think we've been in the last days and facing tribulation now. I'm thinking of Matthew 24 and John 16.
And Lord knows we are witness today to false teachers and anti-Christs who stand in defiance of Christ and his word.

I think the great tribulation is when God shows he's had enough of our shenanigans.

And first he gets his faithful out of the way. And then he brings his judgement upon the world and those who remain and had helped make this world a living hell.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thank you, Spiritual Israelite.

You're welcome.

I want to add that the Word says unto those that look for Him He will appear a second time without sin unto salvation.

What is your point here? Nowhere does the Bible teach that He will also later appear a third time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Exactly. John just saw future events.


The seals are not opened so the events have not happened yet.

When each seal, which John had a vision of, is actually opened, the event will occur.

You guys endlessly argue about this when it doesn't even matter when the seals are opened. That has no bearing on when the events relating to the seals occur. If the seals were already opened, that does not mean the events related to them already occurred. That would just mean the future events were revealed at that time instead of when they happen. What difference does it make either way? None.

 

[JLB]

Please give me your opinion.

Let me make sure I understand the post tribulation rapture.

Are these verses in Matthew 24 considered the same event as the verses in Revelation 19 below?

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Whether you are post tribulation or Pre trib, Mid trib, Pre wrath etc. I would like your opinion and also are you post trib, pre trib, mid trib etc. Let's make sure we are on the same page.

Are the above verses describing the one and only coming of Jesus?
The more opinions, the better.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The Resurrection of the dead in Christ and the Rapture, occur at the coming of the Lord;
The Second Coming of Christ.

 

[The Light]

I think the great tribulation is when God shows he's had enough of our shenanigans.

The great tribulation begins when the beast sets up the abomination of Desolation. The great tribulation is when the beast is killing Jews and Christians and many Jews become Christians.

The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal and then the 7th seal is opened, and the wrath of God begins.

 

[The Light]

You're welcome.


What is your point here? Nowhere does the Bible teach that He will also later appear a third time.

This verse is saying that to those who look for Him He will appear time unto salvation. Rapture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This verse is saying that to those who look for Him He will appear time unto salvation. Rapture.

Right. And no verses say that He will also later appear a third time.

 

[The Light]

You guys endlessly argue about this when it doesn't even matter when the seals are opened. That has no bearing on when the events relating to the seals occur. If the seals were already opened, that does not mean the events related to them already occurred. That would just mean the future events were revealed at that time instead of when they happen. What difference does it make either way? None.

When a seal is actually opened, the event occurs...........And when he opened the third........the event happens. John had a vision of these events.

Rev 3
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When a seal is actually opened, the event occurs...........And when he opened the third........the event happens. John had a vision of these events.

Rev 3
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

LOL. Despite what I said, you still want to argue about it. Unbelievable. He could have opened the third seal long ago and then the vision of what would happen in the future in relation to the third seal was shown, but it was going to happen in the future and not at the time it wasn't opened. Again, either way, it makes no difference. So, why argue about it? There is nothing that says if the seal was opened in the past that the event had to occur in the past. That's just your assumption and nothing more. But, it doesn't make a difference either way. So, stop wasting your time arguing about this. The events happen when they happen regardless of when the seals are opened.

 

[The Light]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The Resurrection of the dead in Christ and the Rapture, occur at the coming of the Lord;
The Second Coming of Christ.

1 Thes 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead in Christ rise first. The alive remain.

When Jesus returns for the alive that remain, He will bring the dead with Him.

1 Thes 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

1 Thes 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead in Christ rise first. The alive remain.

When Jesus returns for the alive that remain, He will bring the dead with Him.

1 Thes 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

This is just an absolutely, utterly ridiculous interpretation of the text that you have all to yourself. I guarantee that you can find NO ONE who agrees with your interpretation of that text.

The text indicates that when Jesus descends from heaven, the dead in Christ will be resurrected and then they, together with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up to meet Christ in the air. One event. Not two. Stop butchering scripture to make it say what you want it to say!

 

[The Light]

The events happen when they happen regardless of when the seals are opened.

The Word says that when the seal is opened, the event occurs. And that's what's going to happen.

 

[The Light]

This is just an absolutely, utterly ridiculous interpretation of the text that you have all to yourself. I guarantee that you can find NO ONE who agrees with your interpretation of that text.

The text indicates that when Jesus descends from heaven, the dead in Christ will be resurrected and then they, together with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up to meet Christ in the air. One event. Not two. Stop butchering scripture to make it say what you want it to say!

The alive remain unto the coming of the Lord. If the Lord comes for the dead, why are the alive remaining?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Word says that when the seal is opened, the event occurs. And that's what's going to happen.

You think it says that, but it's up for interpretation, as I showed. But, believe whatever you want about that. The events happen when they happen regardless.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The alive remain unto the coming of the Lord. If the Lord comes for the dead, why are the alive remaining?

There will be some Christians still alive when Jesus comes. The text CLEARLY says that they will be caught up TOGETHER with the resurrected dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air. That means the dead in Christ and those who are alive when Jesus comes are caught up to meet Him TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME. Very simple. You are missing something obvious here and the only explanation for that is your extreme doctrinal bias.