"Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....?

[amadeus]

Yes, I expect you are correct. The soul that sins shall die. And what I believe Jesus did was to provide a way for that to be true for us without destroying us. He could survive death because He is righteous. We survive death because He shares His death with us. We enter new life because He shares His resurrection with us.

What I see is a progression upward or a sliding downward from the time we first meet Jesus... and/or from the time the Holy Spirit is in us to fight the battles and to quicken what we consume when they are good things. Who is good? Only One!

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

It needs to be the "new man" in us that is increasing and the "old man" that is decreasing. When people quench the Spirit in themselves they start to slide backwards, like Peter started to sink into the water when he took his eyes off of Jesus and instead looked down and around.

I don't see this passage altering any of these things, only reinforcing them. But with one little, suble change, on the face of it, the passage is presented as if it refutes this idea of Jesus dying for us. Even though Paul directly stated, "Christ died for our sins".

Ezekiel speaks of the flesh and the fallen man. We cannot even die for ourselves in order to be saved, can we? We are dead in the eyes of God. Read in the OT about the sacrifices. They must be alive and well without blemishes at the time of death. From the time that Adam and Eve disobeyed God all men were dead in the eyes of God so no man was qualified to die even for himself!

God needed to provide a sacrifice that met the criteria and it was not to be Isaac:

"...My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering..." Gen 22:8

Really, so far the only way I can make sense of what @bbyrd009 says is remembering before I was Christian. I was what most would call "New Age". My thinking then was more like, Jesus was just another man, and Christ was something we all could be, kind of like Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

I'm not saying that's what the man thinks, only, that's the only sense I can make of what he says.

Without Jesus and the Holy Spirit how can any of us ever be like God? We cannot!

 

[marks]

Questions may cause people to consider, but I wouldn't count on them proving anyone wrong or even changing anyone's mind.

I really have been there and done that... and then God has reminded me that ultimately it is He that gives any increase that matters to Him to anyone.

I'm just filling empty hours, myself. I'm trying to let these idle hands be God's workshop. If someone has cause to reconsider something, OK. And if they come to new conclusions, may they be right ones!

Absolutely, God gives the increase, not a bunch of squabbling on the internet!

But I've found new things, reached new, and I believe better conclusions on some matters, and have learned a great deal about how other people see things. I've found though that I need to ask a lot of questions, as we sometimes use words differently.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Our beasts are certainly that old man of us who when he leads takes us right into sin.

Mortify therefore your members on the earth . . . Col 3

Much love!

 

[marks]

VictoryinJesus said: ↑

But solid food is for fullgrown men, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil

”meat is for those who have eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”

“senses”

I like your insight there!

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I'm just filling empty hours, myself. I'm trying to let these idle hands be God's workshop. If someone has cause to reconsider something, OK. And if they come to new conclusions, may they be right ones!

Absolutely, God gives the increase, not a bunch of squabbling on the internet!

But I've found new things, reached new, and I believe better conclusions on some matters, and have learned a great deal about how other people see things. I've found though that I need to ask a lot of questions, as we sometimes use words differently.

Much love!

God uses people to accomplish His work. He uses you and me and sometimes in the case of necessary chastisements or punishments, He may use devils by allowing them to go ahead. This last might be the Left Hand of God.

 

[amadeus]

Mortify therefore your members on the earth . . . Col 3

Much love!

Amen!

 

[theefaith]

So, the way to perfection for a born of God man//woman is to leave the principals of the doctrine of Christ?

also do you follow all the customs of the law, or just laying on of your hands on the animal sacrifice you bring to offer to God to atone for your sins?

It’s only a figure of speech

So, the way to perfection for a born of God man//woman is to leave the principals of the doctrine of Christ?

also do you follow all the customs of the law, or just laying on of your hands on the animal sacrifice you bring to offer to God to atone for your sins?

What is perfection?

the sacrifice of Christ is offered for my sins

 

[theefaith]

Also do you follow the custom of baptisms as the Pharisees did?

was not aware Of the Pharisees having baptism

the Christian sacrament of baptism in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirt

acts 2:38-39 infants included

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Is the outer man equal to the flesh? And by this do you mean the body?

Much love!

Yes, the corrupt desires of the flesh. It speaks very loudly at times.
But my inner man is no longer controlled by that big mouth. He died and speaks from the grave. Sometimes persuasively, but from the grave, nonetheless. Like a deceased spouse who used to live in tyranny over his wife. But who no longer has the lawful authority to make the wife submit to him because he has died.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I was referring to Peter's letter. Paul didn't include or exclude anyone in Peter's letter.

Much love!

Paul included the gentiles in the Hosea reference.

 

[bbyrd009]

Do we decide whether Jesus died for our sins by how much sense it makes to us to be told to take up our crosses?

it might be perceived as another nail in a coffin, so to speak

What if taking up our crosses is analogous to affirming in our actions our crucifixion with Christ?

then i would expect the concomitant behavior to reflect that, but tbh this strikes me as a different subject anyway.
What exactly does it mean for us to “pick up our crosses” anyway?
Why would we need to pick up our crosses if Jesus died for our sins already?
so two related but diff questions imo

 

[marks]

marks said: ↑

Peter was addressing the Jews of the diaspora. That's an interesting thought!

Much love!

And Paul includes the gentiles in that message.

Not in Peter's message, Paul didn't cowrite with Peter.

Your train of thought here is very convoluted. I was looking with @VictoryinJesus concerning Peter's quote from Isaiah.

It sounds to me like you are asserting:

When Peter addressed the "strangers of the diaspora", a term for Isrealites living as non-citizens in foreign lands, that this should be understood to include the gentiles also, and so that all that Peter says is actually addressed to both Jew and Gentile in it's first and primary application. This being because Peter and Paul both reference Hosea.

I think we need to look at the contexts for each letter, and the specific ways these quotes are used. And we've recently done that. I don't believe Peter's address is any different than the way it sounds, the strangers of the diaspora, that is, the Jews in foreign lands.

Much love!

 

[marks]

it might be perceived as another nail in a coffin, so to speak

I don't understand your answer. Can you say this another way?

Much love!

 

[marks]

What exactly does it mean for us to “pick up our crosses” anyway?

Maybe picking up our cross is what moves us from milk to meat.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

When Peter addressed the "strangers of the diaspora", a term for Isrealites living as non-citizens in foreign lands, that this should be understood to include the gentiles also, and so that all that Peter says is actually addressed to both Jew and Gentile in it's first and primary application. This being because Peter and Paul both reference Hosea.

And that's all I'm saying. So we're good.

 

[marks]

He died and speaks from the grave.

You are saying the old inner man died?

Much love!

 

[marks]

And that's all I'm saying. So we're good.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

No, I do not agree with that.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Maybe picking up our cross is what moves us from milk to meat.

Much love!

Paul describes milk drinkers in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, so by extension a meat eater would be someone who is not an infant and not caught up in the worldly vices of the flesh. Or at least learning not to be caught up in them. Meat is for the mature. It's for those not caught in the worldly vices of the flesh as mere men, but for spiritual men growing up into the stature of Christ, able to eat meat.

1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready, 3for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man?
​

Sometimes it's useful to know what something is by what it is not. This is one of those things.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You are saying the old inner man died?

Much love!

No the old man died—the old task master of the flesh who, by force of law, ruled over us like an overbearing husband over his wife, forcing her to submit to his desires and bear his fruit, which he was lawfully entitled to do. Romans 7:1-6

But with old husband 'flesh' out of the way now (he died), we are free to marry new husband Jesus and submit to him, bearing his fruit. The law of marriage which required the wife to remain in submissive relationship to her now deceased husband can no longer do that because that spouse has died.

 

[marks]

Paul describes milk drinkers in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, so by extension a meat eater would be someone who is not an infant and not caught up in the worldly vices of the flesh. Or at least learning not to be caught up in them. Meat is for the mature. It's for those not caught in the worldly vices of the flesh as mere men, but as spiritual men growing up into the stature of Christ and able to eat meat.

1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready, 3for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man?
​

Sometimes it's useful to know what something is by what it is not. This is one of those things.

Which translation are you quoting from? It's not right. Words are changed, words are missing. Hmm.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 KJV
1) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4) For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Anyway, I blame poor translations of the Bible as much as anything else for the confusion over doctrine.

Much love!