"Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....?

[marks]

A person I deal with at work knows me one way, and a my wife knows me another way. They both know me as I am but my wife has a deeper understanding of who I am than my co worker.

I think the assumption is that neither is just making things up about you. That you show up smoking a cigar, and they insist, IF you only know how to see it, he's eating a popsicle. I would say, one or the other is true, because one or the other will be what's real.

True knowledge will have it's factual base.

I believe that God provides this for us in The Scriptures.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

id rather never eat meat again

That passage on eating no meat is confusing to me. 1 Corinthians 8 begins with knowledge puffs up, Charity edifies. what that seems to say to me is: the flesh puffs up, the Spirit of God edifies? Romans 14:15 speaks of if the brothers is grieved with the meat you walk not charitably. walking not the Spirit but after the flesh (as yet carnal?) ‘destroy not him with your meat, for whom Christ died.’

walking after the flesh but after the Spirit makes me think of: And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:24-26

if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world stands Galatians 6:14-15 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

sounds familiar ‘But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.’ 1 Corinthians 8:8

Romans 14:17-23 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. [18] For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. [19] Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. [20] For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. [21] It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. [22] Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. [23] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


For whatever is not of faith is sin.
1 Corinthians 8:12 But when you sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.

‘if your meat destroys your brother’ ‘now walk not you in Charity’; is this not the same as another way of saying ‘whatever is not of faith is sin’ now you walk not in faith when you sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
Examine yourselves, whether you be in faith?

 

[marks]

People will never agree on the meaning of Scripture if they cannot agree on what it says in the first place.



Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

knowledge puffs up, Charity edifies. what that seems to say to me is: the flesh puffs up, the Spirit of God edifies?

well i guess they might be somewhat synonymous, but tbh i would stick with the orig terms…although i dislike that xlation “charity” bc we have a diff understanding…diff definition of that word now. Hmm, lotta roots get xlated as “charity,” interesting

[21] It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak

i would seek the allegorical definitions for “flesh” and “wine” there, although it surely works on a literal level too, i guess

‘if your meat destroys you brother’ ‘now you walk not in Charity’; is this not the same as ‘whatever is not of faith is sin’ ‘now you walk not in faith’ when you sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ

well, you say they are not the same, but if one relies on their knowledge, their “facts,” and they are only seeking more facts, then by definition they kinda are not even trying to exercise their “faith” much, right? Faith comes by hearing…which i dunno what that really means, could mean several things i guess. Could even mean “be open to new facts” lol

anyway, to the first point, i agree that it is counter productive for me to tell a newbie that No son of man may die for another’s sins, even though it is completely “true,” for instance

 

[theefaith]

When we learn to trust in his imputed righteousness and not rely on our own own strength and will to be self righteous, is when we are filled with his righteousness and grow Spiritually. Spiritual growth is based directly on our intimacy and relationship with God.

How can that be the if it is imputed? How can you be more righteous? More justified?

 

[marks]

i would seek the allegorical definitions for “flesh” and “wine” there,

What are the allegorical definitions for you on this?

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

What are the allegorical definitions for you on this?

Much love!

at a guess i would say that meat (or flesh i guess, although we use that term for a diff context also) is something like facts, or “knowledge,” and wine would be a ref to spirit, prolly? someone who has been quickened? That No son of man may die for another’s sins is straight “wine” to me, but i dont ever say that to believers irl, for instance, esp not new believers. I also dont mention that No one has ever gone up to heaven, or any other Scriptural truth that might interfere with their current walk, via the Cult of Sol

True knowledge will have it's factual base

danger, will robinson

 

[bbyrd009]

How can that be the if it is imputed? How can you be more righteous? More justified?

how is it little kids “sin” all the time, and yet get a pass?
not a perfect analogy, granted, but might serve

 

[amadeus]

how can we grow?

I thought it was imputed!

How did Jesus grow?

 

[marks]

at a guess i would say that meat (or flesh i guess, although we use that term for a diff context also) is something like facts, or “knowledge,” and wine would be a ref to spirit, prolly? someone who has been quickened?

They all did eat the same spiritual meat . . .

 

[marks]

How did Jesus grow?

Older? Up?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How can that be the if it is imputed?

The righteousness we receive by faith apart from works is a legal declaration of righteousness.
Your sin guilt is wiped away and you look like Jesus in the eyes of God at all times (as long as you continue in your believing).
Your practical, visible declaration of righteousness is what is increasing.

 

[marks]

That No son of man may die for another’s sins is straight “wine” to me, but i dont ever say that to believers irl, for instance, esp not new believers.

Too intoxicating?

This phrase you post so frequently has always troubled me in that it sounds like it's quoting the Bible and it's not, having subtly changed the actual thing that is said, so that it sounds like a refutation of a key element of Christianity.

"Die for another's sins", is that to be understood as meaning penal substitution? Do you mean in a causal sense? "Cursed is the ground for your sake", that is to say, "Cursed is the ground because of you". Jesus died because we sinned . . . And that was the way He could rescue us. Is it meant that way?

There is a certain ambiguity in your statement. And I can't go the Bible to clarify it, because that's not what it says. It says something similar, but not that.

And the whole cult of sol thing, it's like, whenever we start to have what I feel is meaningful discussion . . . well, at the end of the day, I suspect my ideas of what you mean with that are completely off base . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

The righteousness we receive by faith apart from works is a legal declaration of righteousness.
Your sin guilt is wiped away and you look like Jesus in the eyes of God at all times (as long as you continue in your believing).
Your practical, visible declaration of righteousness is what is increasing.

Do you not believe in a righteous recreation? The New Man, who is created according to God's pattern, in righteousness and true holiness?

I believe we are justified by death and resurrection in Christ, and that the new man is a real person who is newly born from God. Do you agree?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Older? Up?

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

 

[VictoryinJesus]

well i guess they might be somewhat synonymous, but tbh i would stick with the orig terms…although i dislike that xlation “charity” bc we have a diff understanding…diff definition of that word now. Hmm, lotta roots get xlated as “charity,” interesting

get (I think) what you mean by our definition of charity maybe is confused. But just an opinion but to me they are not the same …knowledge puffs up, charity edifies. Could be wrong but that would be like saying the works of the flesh and the works of the Spirit are the same, when they are so different? When I think of charity to try to learn why my definition is confused I think of the passage where Paul speaks of even though we appear as reprobates, I pray you know we are no reprobates not that we will appear approved, but that you do that which is honest even though you now think we are as those who fail …we are glad, when we are weak, and you are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection. [10] Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction. ‘We are glad, when we are weak, you are strong’

contrasted with ‘destroy not that weak brother whom Christ died for.’ And here Paul is saying ‘when we are weak, you are strong. And this also we wish, even your perfection.’ Do that which is honest? to me that is what He means by edification. Because in looking at the model He became weak that others could be made strong? For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you. 2 Corinthians 13:4

well, you say they are not the same, but if one relies on their knowledge, their “facts,” and they are only seeking more facts, then by definition they kinda are not even trying to exercise their “faith” much, right? Faith comes by hearing…which i dunno what that really means, could mean several things i guess. Could even mean “be open to new facts” lol

my grammar is poor. These I meant as being similar or the same: ‘whatever is not of faith is sin.’ And ‘now you walk not charitable towards your brother’ so sinning against Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

i would seek the allegorical definitions for “flesh” and “wine” there, although it surely works on a literal level too, i guess

Makes me think of:
John 4:31-34 In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. [32] But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that you know not of. [33] Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? [34] Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

point is, what you are suggesting is they are talking about meat for the belly, then He is talking about something else?

 

[lforrest]

I've thought the milk to be any word about sin and the redemption from it. Something that is necessary and must come before the meat, which is any word besides that.

 

[bbyrd009]

They all did eat the same spiritual meat . . .

well, that is a ref to manna, right? So imo “meat” is prolly not the best trans

 

[marks]

well, that is a ref to manna, right? So imo “meat” is prolly not the best trans

I just checked, you're right, a KJV thing. I'll have to file that one away.

Cool!

Much love!