"Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....?

[bbyrd009]

Heb 5:13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.

amen ill be this guy

Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God

”mature” is now being used in a diff context imo, but one must mature and become like a little child in their own manner i guess. Pretty sure Paul is yanking some chains though

 

[theefaith]

how is it little kids “sin” all the time, and yet get a pass?
not a perfect analogy, granted, but might serve

because they are under the age of reason and cannot know right and wrong

 

[David H.]

when we first go out into the wilderness to see, our perspective is what is it? but then we fairly quickly accept—usually bc we are taught, i guess—some doctrine or fact or verse as “fact,” and then become blind to the other vv that contradict or condition the v or fact or doctrine that we have now accepted as “gospel,” putting us in a perfect place to go argue our “facts” with other believers who have accepted the opposite “facts” for the rest of our lives, shunning or even killing them if necessary

It is one thing to believe in the Gospel, and another altogether to trust in the Gospel. The first is a mental acceptance, the latter is Practical application of that belief. For grown men and woman it is harder to learn this, because of their strength and will has protected them throughout their lives.... a child on the other hand trusts in the protection and providence of the Father to protect him, thus faith being put into practice is like relearning this childlike dependence on the heavenly Father, (By which we cry "Abba, Father"). God uses the "wilderness" to teach us this, however many will look back to their old ways in the wilderness and fall back into unbelief and not enter into the promised land like Israel did.

A Lot of what is causing division in the church is a doctrinal self reliance on one's own will and strength to defend the Truth, but the the Truth needs no defense from man.

 

[theefaith]

How did Jesus grow?

I’m showing by these questions how wrong there doctrines are

 

[theefaith]

The righteousness we receive by faith apart from works is a legal declaration of righteousness.
Your sin guilt is wiped away and you look like Jesus in the eyes of God at all times (as long as you continue in your believing).
Your practical, visible declaration of righteousness is what is increasing.

oh no it says over and over grace is increased, growing in grace and holiness

 

[David H.]

How can that be the if it is imputed? How can you be more righteous? More justified?

If you have been given gold it is of little value to you until you use that gold to invest in something. If the imputed righteousness of God just sits there in the believer it is of little value as it is not producing anything..... think of the parable of the talents here, and the one who buried the talent in the ground instead of investing it.... (Matthew 25:14-30)

 

[bbyrd009]

1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works,a and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms,b the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do, if God permits

“therefore let us leave the facts engraved in stone that we were fed when we were still seekers, but had come under teachers, teaching facts, no what is it? in evidence anywhere unless you by chance started your walk as a Mennonite maybe, the same facts you see ppl here been ‘saved’ 20-30 years still arguing over, and go on to maturity” perhaps

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame

(to those who overcome I will give to eat of the hidden manna)(what is it?)

7For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned

contrast land that “drinks in the rain often falling upon it” with “listening to someone spout facts and debating them about them,” our preferred method

16Men swear by someone greater than themselves, and their oath serves as a confirmation to end all argument

classic Paul imo, a curse put as a truth or a fact that we already know we are not to do, followed by an immediate apparent subject change or contrast with Yah swearing

 

[bbyrd009]

because they are under the age of reason and cannot know right and wrong

doesn't it seem strange then, that Jesus would command us to become like them?

And fwiw i will say that i do the same stuff, all the time, now, even knowing that it is technically against some rule or policy that really doesnt serve people at all, but i just kinda play dumb and do it and let it play out for that to be revealed, and then the policy changes, long story short
i mean or not, it doesnt always change, but a convo has been started

 

[bbyrd009]

It is one thing to believe in the Gospel, and another altogether to trust in the Gospel

pretty good trick to define the Gospel imo lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Milk are the basic doctrines of Salvation that all believers know

he who says that he knows anything, does not

the doctrines that we were all taught as “facts” right? those indisputable facts, that all believers “know,” that are by def not what is it? Ok, but imo just dont write that in stone yet ok

For grown men and woman it is harder to learn this, because of their strength and will has protected them throughout their lives

yup

 

[bbyrd009]

For grown men and woman it is harder to learn this, because of their strength and will has protected them throughout their lives

yup

How can that be the if it is imputed? How can you be more righteous? More justified?

we try to mature and become even more grown-up, Jesus tells us to become like a little child

 

[marks]

perhaps not exactly, in those translations, but i think the intent is clear enough

I think the intent is pretty clear myself, which is why I'm saying something. It sounds to me that you have a certain thing you think, and by rephrasing and blending a couple of passages you can make it sound like the Bible says it too. That doesn't work for me . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yep. There's a changed man behind the drivers wheel now. I'm new that way.

For myself, I don't see the fleshy man born of Adam being reformed, I see him replaced.

When the Scripture tell us to "put off the old man", what is it telling us , if the old man has been turned into the new man?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I’m showing by these questions how wrong there doctrines are

Questions may cause people to consider, but I wouldn't count on them proving anyone wrong or even changing anyone's mind.

I really have been there and done that... and then God has reminded me that ultimately it is He that gives any increase that matters to Him to anyone.

 

[bbyrd009]

I think the intent is pretty clear myself, which is why I'm saying something. It sounds to me that you have a certain thing you think, and by rephrasing and blending a couple of passages you can make it sound like the Bible says it too. That doesn't work for me . . .

Much love!

well, i guess i could find the version that uses the exact words No son of man may die for another’s sins, but im not sure that would bring us any closer at this point

 

[VictoryinJesus]

”meat is for those who have eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”

“senses”

have all eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? The hard part for me is evil comes naturally so I must of eaten of the tree? So naturally it seems impossible to do anything except that. It is doing better or learning something new that His Word seems to help with….leads, guides, teaches? So, I’m not sure what you saying here…the reason I thought of the passage where Paul says he will eat no meat if it causes his brother to offend. Is because would it have crossed Sauls mind, so Paul (to me) has a discerning of evil and good in knowing the difference, or at least that is an opinion. Paul could have eaten the meat to prove his own liberty in doing so and destroyed his brother as one who lacks the same liberty. You mentioned ‘puffs’ up as not a good thing. I think you were asking how am I seeing puffed up… as a good thing or bad …there be giants in the land?

The passage where Paul speaks of eating no meat if it causes his brother to offend. Interesting is ‘meat commends us not to God’
1 Corinthians 8:8

Romans 14:16-17 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: [17] For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

A verse that has changed in some way to me since this thread is Philippians 4:8. Because of the above ‘whatsoever is of a good report’ and also where Paul spoke of even though they appeared as being reprobates he wished they would do what is honest, not so he would appear approved but that he encouraged their perfection. ‘Do what is honest’. That is why the following changed because I’ve always been taught or saw it as to think on pure things was to think on ‘lovely things’ like puppies, kittens and rainbows. But is that what it is saying? To think on fluffy thoughts as a way of checking out of reality? ‘Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest(even though we appear as reprobate), whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.’

Which, again, only an opinion but it appears Paul did ‘think on these things’ and was changed because of and for ‘these things’. So I question what commends us unto God when meat commends us not unto God, (neither are we worse or better) instead what commends us unto God … “against such there is no law”: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Consider
Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Is somewhere in there ‘And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.’?

 

[theefaith]

If you have been given gold it is of little value to you until you use that gold to invest in something. If the imputed righteousness of God just sits there in the believer it is of little value as it is not producing anything..... think of the parable of the talents here, and the one who buried the talent in the ground instead of investing it.... (Matthew 25:14-30)

so by our good works we increase grace?

 

[theefaith]

doesn't it seem strange then, that Jesus would command us to become like them?

And fwiw i will say that i do the same stuff, all the time, now, even knowing that it is technically against some rule or policy that really doesnt serve people at all, but i just kinda play dumb and do it and let it play out for that to be revealed, and then the policy changes, long story short
i mean or not, it doesnt always change, but a convo has been started

no he is referring to the ability of little ones to trust

 

[theefaith]

Also to be innocent pure and holy

 

[bbyrd009]

have all eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

i would guess that there are exceptions, but broadly speaking yes imo; and i dont think its very hard to tell, by the way they will speak

The hard part for me is evil comes naturally so I must of eaten of the tree?

tbh i doubt you ever did anything truly evil in your life lol, or i bet its been a long time at least

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Is somewhere in there ‘And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.’?

id say that one would pretty much have to do part two in order to be able to practice part 1, the Phil 4:8 part?