Miracles, Signs and Wonders
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Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
LoL. I don't mean to poke fun here, Christophany, but you won't find the translation "have warmth of feeling for the spiritual gifts" in ANY translation on earth, LoL. The Greek word is what we get our word "zealous" from, and it means just that; be zealous for the spiritual gifts, which means desire them and seek zealously after them. What exactly it would mean to sit there and "have warm feelings for them" is beyond me, LoL.
"Christophany: "I have gifts from the Holy Spirit, just not the tongues and babbling type. the ones that edify the body, not self."
In defiance of Paul's earnest desire for every believer! "I want you all to speak in tongues...I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all (1 Corinthians 14:5, 18)."
Christophany: "Plus God grants the gifts/distributes the them as He pleases, man doesn't request spiritual gifts."
Wrong! The godly man does request: "Earnestly strive for the greater gifts...earnestly strive for the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy (12:31; 14:1)." And Paul considers the gift of tongues, when interpreted, as just as great a gift as prophesying (14:5). That's why he wants every believer to speak in tongues! Self-edification is important for spiritual growth (14:4).
As for the rarity of signs and wonders, you seem to be merely betraying the impoverished spiritual experience of yourself and probably of your church. Our little prayer group sees lots of dramatic answers to prayer, including great miracles. The NT gives us just the highlights of the apostles' ministry. Their attempts at faith healing often bombed (Mark 9:28, 28); cp. Luke 17:5).
"Very truly I tell you, he who believes in me will do the works that I do, and in fact will do greater works than these because I am going to the Father (John 14:12)."
"I will come to you soon and I will find out not the [God-] talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God depends not on [God-] talk, but on power (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
In defiance of Paul's earnest desire for every believer! "I want you all to speak in tongues...I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all (1 Corinthians 14:5, 18)."
Christophany: "Plus God grants the gifts/distributes the them as He pleases, man doesn't request spiritual gifts."
Wrong! The godly man does request: "Earnestly strive for the greater gifts...earnestly strive for the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy (12:31; 14:1)." And Paul considers the gift of tongues, when interpreted, as just as great a gift as prophesying (14:5). That's why he wants every believer to speak in tongues! Self-edification is important for spiritual growth (14:4).
As for the rarity of signs and wonders, you seem to be merely betraying the impoverished spiritual experience of yourself and probably of your church. Our little prayer group sees lots of dramatic answers to prayer, including great miracles. The NT gives us just the highlights of the apostles' ministry. Their attempts at faith healing often bombed (Mark 9:28, 28); cp. Luke 17:5).
"Very truly I tell you, he who believes in me will do the works that I do, and in fact will do greater works than these because I am going to the Father (John 14:12)."
"I will come to you soon and I will find out not the [God-] talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God depends not on [God-] talk, but on power (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
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Being brutal against those who claim "Holy Spirit" gifts of knowledge and healing, this is mainly wishful thinking.
It is so infectious an idea, like a pastor who said to my son, his position or approach was because of some trauma when he was 8 years old.
As parents who knew him well and his approach to life, there was no trauma at that time, or anything this is speaking of. My son likewise wondered what was meant, but it turns out it is vapour ware, though probably well intentioned, given the authority of the creator.
The idea of the pain of death for false prophecy, might discourage this, but the trend is actually give prophecy a try, you will mainly get it wrong but at least you are trying. This is saying speaking on behalf of God, is like riding a bike, we should all do it, and in the end we will get it right.
People who speak like this do not know God or His ways or His will and intentions.
In a bible study 40 years ago I suggested to the group that God was more interested in changes in our hearts and emotional reactions to things than in the miraculous. I showed scripture after scripture about transformation, walking in the Spirit expressed through our behaviour, love and approach, and I was responded to like I was an alien.
God is a God of miracles because He created everything, but everything He says is relational, everything. Gods judgements are always about bad behaviour between people, and the need for justice and love. The cross, suffering despite victory over sin and death, speak of this priority. Yet we hear wealth, success, privilege, status, health, and the miraculous so we should never be ill or that is unbelief. As someone pointed out fillings and glasses should show how absurd this proposition is, but the delusion is so deep, people will claim God gave them a gold filling, even when they know the dentist actually did it.
On the Holy Spirit front, my friends who claim gifts, unfortunately have turned out to be just wishful thinking and no more than that.
Groups like Bethel have been reduced to praying for a young child, and the miracle was they responded to medical intervention.
The logic is all wrong. God allows illness and death to take us to heaven. Yet we claim it is of the devil and oppose Gods sovereign will because He could not wish such an evil thing on our lives.
Paul looks at things very differently. A thorn in flesh to keep him humble, and the struggle to go to be with Jesus or to stay and minister.
I wish leaders would see their God, and how His hand rules, not our contributions or importance. God does not intervene because He does not need to, and as a gift to His children, at appropriate times He does. God bless you
sure and that miracle, sign, wonder is the greatest of them all
The NEW BIRTH, BORN AGAIN, GOD DWELLING IN MAN. We ARE the TEMPLE of the LORD.
It takes the new birth to be a believer, qualifying us for signs and wonders following. God still does miracles today.
Sure God does miracles but there are no miracle workers like Moses, Elijah, Jesus and the Apostles today. That ended with the Apostles. So anyone claiming the ability to perform miracles come from the evil one below according to Jesus and Paul. Anyone who believes that scriptures says is deceived.
Paul says the coming evil one will deceive everyone with his false signs and miracles. 2 Thessalonians 2:9
Jesus said in Matthew 24:24 the same thing about false miracles, signs and wonders before His 2nd Coming,
hope this helps !!!
Those are replicas.
The believer, according to Jesus, will be followed by signs and wonders.
God still does miracles, whether you approve of them or not.
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Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Hey!
Another problem with your theory here is that it posits that Satan will be allowed to do great supernatural works during the end-times to deceive the world but the Lord will not display His own power to dissuade any of it. This is a very unnatural position to take, especially in light of the full context of passages like 2 Thessalonians. But let me ask you: If Joel 2:28 is true (which it is), then how is it that no supernatural gifts of God will be in manifestation during the end-times?
God bless. Btw, did you see that Fishing thread I tagged you for? I figured that would be something you found interesting.
During the Tribulation God sends His 2 messengers ( most likely Moses/Elijah) who will perform miracles but until then its deception as Jesus taught in Matthew 24 and Paul in 2 Thessalonians. Its really the plain teaching by Jesus and Paul in those passages.
hope this helps !!!
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
I'll let you know when it helps, LoL.
We can cover the entire passage of 2 Thessalonians 2 but that would be a ton of teaching I don't really have time for anyway. But I was more specifically looking for a response to what I asked you about in Joel 2:28.
fulfilled at Pentecost and during the time of the Apostles.
Remember the end times began after His 1st Coming during the era of the Apostles.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
That sounds like you believe no gifts of the Spirit will manifest until the two witnesses. Then what gifts are they that you say you have? You seem to admit to having nothing.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
That's the usual answer. But the next question is this: If it was fulfilled completely during the New Testament era, what happened to the fulfillment of the rest of the passage? (Joel 2:28-31)
I need to go walk and pray. I'll check back later. God bless!
another false claim. I said miracles, signs, wonders ie the sign gifts.
The gifts that build up the body will be active until the Resurrection of the saints.
easy that is during the Tribulation when Gods Divine wrath is being poured out upon all flesh.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
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