Missing from bible

[jaybird]

First, my apologies, Angelina.

Jay, you have a mixture of actual events mixed with parables. For instance, the point of the "move mountains" verse. Matthew 17:20And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you

This simply says even with the tiniest of Faith, nothing is impossible. Faith in Christ. You can then reference Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me." It helps if you read the entire chapter surrounding these verses to fully understand them.

ok so anything is possible if your faith is strong enough, moving a mountain would be covered in the "anything" category i would think. so how would someone go about making their faith strong enough to do that?

 

[jaybird]

The Bible we know today is twofold, it is a history book and it is a myopic into the nature of God. From your post here it would suggest that you think it is a book of rules, and from that perspective you can not be further from the truth. The Bible is a collective of different God inspired authors from different times in the two covenants God provided to man. The first one, the Old Covenant, was for Israel and its descendants. The second one is for all of mankind and perfects what the first one tried to do. Like any home of its size, the Bible does not have one single style of literature. It is a combination of literal, metaphorical, hyperbole, parabolic and prophetic style. The style can be garnered from the context of what is read. In your case you seem to feel that none of this is applicable to the Bible and you say it is all 100% real. Yes of course it is 100% real, and inspired / breathed of God, but it contains all those other styles and allegories. You must understand what parables are designed to do, and not label them as fairy tales just because they don't necessarily depict something that actually happened in time.

wasnt all nations under the covenant of Noah?
i think the bible is much more than just rules. and i dont think you can cherry pick the bible, some parts are real but other parts cant be explained by a text book so lets call them metaphors/hyperbole.

 

[Angelina]

wasnt all nations under the covenant of Noah?
i think the bible is much more than just rules. and i dont think you can cherry pick the bible, some parts are real but other parts cant be explained by a text book so lets call them metaphors/hyperbole.

no... :unsure: do you know who the Holy Spirit is???

 

[jaybird]

no... :unsure: do you know who the Holy Spirit is???

no to what?
Jesus said it was a spirit of truth.

 

[StanJ]

wasnt all nations under the covenant of Noah?
i think the bible is much more than just rules. and i dont think you can cherry pick the bible, some parts are real but other parts cant be explained by a text book so lets call them metaphors/hyperbole.

And what covenant is that?
You're right, so why did you say the opposite before?
What you say 'can't be explained', are explained in the metaphorical and hyperbolic, but you're failing to see them so you're discounting them....why is that?
You need to start being a lot more specific, because you're being so vague there's really nothing there to discuss.

 

[jaybird]

And what covenant is that?
You're right, so why did you say the opposite before?
What you say 'can't be explained', are explained in the metaphorical and hyperbolic, but you're failing to see them so you're discounting them....why is that?
You need to start being a lot more specific, because you're being so vague there's really nothing there to discuss.

it was the rainbow covenant in gen 9. for some reason i always call it the covenant of noah but what do i know im just a guy.
im not discounting anything. im frustrated with the hyperbole/metaphor terms that many use when they cant explain something. when our Lord says the amorites were as tall as ceder trees, i think we should consider that their may have been people/beings at one time that may have really been that tall. but so many will say its just hyperbole or a metaphore meaning they were really only about 6 foot tall. this would make it sound as if our Lord was telling tall tails. i dont believe the All High does that.

 

[StanJ]

it was the rainbow covenant in gen 9. for some reason i always call it the covenant of noah but what do i know im just a guy.
im not discounting anything. im frustrated with the hyperbole/metaphor terms that many use when they cant explain something. when our Lord says the amorites were as tall as ceder trees, i think we should consider that their may have been people/beings at one time that may have really been that tall. but so many will say its just hyperbole or a metaphore meaning they were really only about 6 foot tall. this would make it sound as if our Lord was telling tall tails. i dont believe the All High does that.

Well that's not a covenant that's a sign of God's promise to never flood the earth again. It's a simple promise that we are reminded about every time a rain storm ends and we see a rainbow. There is a big difference between a promise and a covenant.
That is very apparent, but the only way to get over that frustration is to ask questions and learn about them. Simply asserting that they mean nothing or have no meaning is non productive. If you want an answer you have to ask the proper question. If you're referring to the Nephilim then maybe you should just ask, and not just belittle the stories that scripture tells?

 

[StanJ]

no to what?
Jesus said it was a spirit of truth.

you're being way to vague still.... where exactly did Jesus say this? Chapter and verse please.

 

[FHII]

Jaybird,

Ever read the book of Enoch? Something tells me you'd love it!

I have a few comments and thoughts to give, but I'll save them for later, save one. Your comment on the many translations of the bible isn't a valid point in this topic. I don't know if it was meant to be an attack on the bible but it came off that way.

Nonetheless, its actually an interesting topic and one that might be worthwhile exploring.

 

[jaybird]

Well that's not a covenant that's a sign of God's promise to never flood the earth again. It's a simple promise that we are reminded about every time a rain storm ends and we see a rainbow. There is a big difference between a promise and a covenant.
That is very apparent, but the only way to get over that frustration is to ask questions and learn about them. Simply asserting that they mean nothing or have no meaning is non productive. If you want an answer you have to ask the proper question. If you're referring to the Nephilim then maybe you should just ask, and not just belittle the stories that scripture tells?

does the Lord not say: gen 9 9
"And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you"
were there not laws connected to that covenant?

i am not belittling the bible, i am belittling the ones that call the stories hyperbole and metaphors.

 

[jaybird]

you're being way to vague still.... where exactly did Jesus say this? Chapter and verse please.

john 14 17

17 Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him: for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you

 

[FHII]

does the Lord not say: gen 9 9
"And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you"
were there not laws connected to that covenant?

i am not belittling the bible, i am belittling the ones that call the stories hyperbole and metaphors.

Belittling anyone ain't going to help your cause. Even if you do have some good points.

 

[jaybird]

Jaybird,

Ever read the book of Enoch? Something tells me you'd love it!

I have a few comments and thoughts to give, but I'll save them for later, save one. Your comment on the many translations of the bible isn't a valid point in this topic. I don't know if it was meant to be an attack on the bible but it came off that way.

Nonetheless, its actually an interesting topic and one that might be worthwhile exploring.

yes i have read it, enoch 1 anyway, im not to sure about the other enoch books. i like most all the books connected with the Essenes and dead sea scrolls.

what i said was not meant to be an attack on our bible but an attack on the ones that decide on how its presented. such as those councils i mentioned, things that few people think about, things i never thought about until i was in my mid 30s.

 

[brakelite]

I take somewhat of a different view regarding Bible versions. I am not a KJV only guy, but it is the only one I normally use. I do use a couple of others when I am doing a topic or word study, but for general reading and meditation etc, I use the KJV. I also only use the KJV for memory texts. It simply seems to lend itself to the memory more so than any other.
As far as other versions are concerned, I do have a healthy distrust of anything that is derived from Westcott or Hort. They were traitors to Protestantism, closet Catholics, and along with a few others, set out successfully to undermine the tradtional text and secretly used manuscripts that supported Catholic dogma. Certain aspects of Christ's divinty are missing from certain versions, and translation problems abound with others. I do believe we are all quite familiar with the details, so will not go into that here. I just am unlike others here and am particular about what I read. Sure, the KJV isn't perfect, there are some problems with a few phrases and words, but by and large, it is a Bible I trust and accept as one that does not distort doctrinal truth.

 

[StanJ]

does the Lord not say: gen 9 9
"And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you"
were there not laws connected to that covenant?
i am not belittling the bible, i am belittling the ones that call the stories hyperbole and metaphors.

A real covenant is a two way process, this was a simple promise from God that he would never destroy the world again by water. It wasn't dependent on anything that mankind would or could do afterwards. The Old Covenant was dependent on Israel following a set of commands and that if they did they would be blessed. That is the difference. If somebody says they love coffee or love chocolate, it is not the same as somebody who says I love my wife. If you have this much trouble with this simple concept of a promise as indicated in Genesis 9, how will you be able to handle much more difficult concepts like the Trinity and the hypostatic nature of Jesus?

As you really haven't pointed out any hyperbole or metaphor, I fail to see why you would even admit to belittling people that identify them? Are you trying to tell us that there is no hyperbole or metaphor in the Bible? Are you even able to recognize hyperbole or metaphor?

 

[StanJ]

john 14 17
17 Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him: for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you

Good, and you notice here that Jesus calls the Spirit of truth him, because he is referring to the Holy Spirit, who is an integral part of the Trinity. Now if you had bothered to read this verse in context, you would have recognized that it is about who Jesus promised, the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit being another comforter, as Jesus was a comforter, is part of the Godhead.

 

[jaybird]

A real covenant is a two way process, this was a simple promise from God that he would never destroy the world again by water. It wasn't dependent on anything that mankind would or could do afterwards. The Old Covenant was dependent on Israel following a set of commands and that if they did they would be blessed. That is the difference. If somebody says they love coffee or love chocolate, it is not the same as somebody who says I love my wife. If you have this much trouble with this simple concept of a promise as indicated in Genesis 9, how will you be able to handle much more difficult concepts like the Trinity and the hypostatic nature of Jesus?

As you really haven't pointed out any hyperbole or metaphor, I fail to see why you would even admit to belittling people that identify them? Are you trying to tell us that there is no hyperbole or metaphor in the Bible? Are you even able to recognize hyperbole or metaphor?

`i believe it was a covenant because the Almighty said it was. the fact there were no conditions does not change that fact.
from my perspective i am having no trouble (gen 9). i believe what the Lord said.

i pointed out a hyperbole /metaphor with the amortites and ceder trees

 

[TopherNelson]

Define "Godhead"

 

[StanJ]

`i believe it was a covenant because the Almighty said it was. the fact there were no conditions does not change that fact.
from my perspective i am having no trouble (gen 9). i believe what the Lord said.
i pointed out a hyperbole /metaphor with the amortites and ceder trees

James said the devil believes and trembles. It's a matter of understanding and not striving about words. There are no laws or conditions attached to that covenant so it doesn't carry the same weight as the Abrahamic covenant does. In any event covenant still means promise, but if you want to think that all covenants are the same then you're sadly mistaken. In my opinion it seems you are more interested in arguing about words than you are about studying the Bible and what is actually conveys?
What post are you talking about that you pointed out a hyperbole / metaphor? Was it in this thread or another thread, and what is the post number, seems like I may have missed it.

 

[StanJ]

Define "Godhead"

I assume you're talking about post #36, where I used the word Godhead? The Godhead is the Trinity.