Missing from bible

[Angelina]

Anyways, I could go on all day. You want to share what scripture teaches you believe that God wants to do miracles? Can we agree to not call it miracles too? Lets call it what it is. Magic, signs and wonders. We live with miracles all aorund us. Breathing air. Walking thanks to gravity.

Wow KingJ, you call God's miracles, magic, signs and wonders? God does not do magic. If fact he abhors those who practice magic arts .... :unsure: Ezekiel 13:18, 20,

Acts 19
11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul,12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.”14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”
16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them,so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.

 

[StanJ]

Wow KingJ, you call God's miracles, magic, signs and wonders? God does not do magic. If fact he abhors those who practice magic arts .... :unsure: Ezekiel 13:18, 20,

Acts 19
11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul,12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.”14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”
16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them,so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.

And don't forget Simon the Sorcerer in Acts 8: 9 - 25

 

[Angelina]

I did think of Simon but did not add him to the list...possibly because I thought that this surely was enough ^_^

 

[StanJ]

I did think of Simon but did not add him to the list...possibly because I thought that this surely was enough ^_^

Well, given the human rationale being used in KJ's post, I would think that a full barrel reply probably won't work either. But we can always hope the Holy Spirit will intercede and convey the truth when all other reasoning fails.

 

[OzSpen]

Hermeneutics and painful common sense.

- God is a like a rich man looking for a bride who loves Him for Him, not his money. IE God prefers we not ever see a ''miracle'' and still have faith and belief. A rich man prefers a bride that does not see or chase after his money. It is very difficult to trust their intentions. Hence scripture like Matt 7:22.

- Medicine is like giving a log to someone drowning. Anyone not contented with the log are stepping into dangerous territory / tempting God. IE Refuse medicine / the log and wait for miraculous healing / nice coast guard boat with a hot Baywatch babe ready to jump in and rescue you. That is Christianity today :lol:. We want to see magic.

- Sarcasm from Jesus. ''Faith of a ridiculously tiny mustard seed'' can move a mountain. Faith teachers completely forget to emphasize the '''mustard seed and its size''. Instead they teach that a mustard seed becomes a large tree. Adding something that Jesus did not say.

- Wanting more then what God has provided is testing / tempting Him. Now for a Jew it was fine to test Him. This was law 101. God worked with mankind then on a promise basis. Tithe = blessing. No tithe = curse. Walk through desert = promised land of milk and honey. Don't = death. Under the new covenant we dare test God. We tithe expecting nothing. We walk to the promised land even if it is only sand and mud.

- His peace surpasses all understanding Phil 4:7. To a a carnal mind poverty and sickness = no peace. Prosperity and healing = peace. But we can have peace in poverty and sickness. IE passes all understanding. As Paul says he has learnt to be content in any and every situation Phil 4:11. A Jew could never say that. A Jew would only be content if he was healed and prosperous...and for them this is forgivably understandable. But not for us. We have moved on. We don't need to chase magic for a sense of self worth when we are married to the magician.

- Jesus would not say Matt 6:26 unless He foresaw us having to endure hardships.

Anyways, I could go on all day. You want to share what scripture teaches you believe that God wants to do miracles? Can we agree to not call it miracles too? Lets call it what it is. Magic, signs and wonders. We live with miracles all aorund us. Breathing air. Walking thanks to gravity.

King,

I didn't ask for what faith teachers teach. My request was simple: Please give me your systematic theology for 'God prefers to not do a miracle'.

What did I get? This rave, with no systematic theology but a few cherry picked verses and concepts, mixed with your denigration of God's supernatural work.

Then you have the audacity to link God's miracles to, 'Lets call it what it is. Magic, signs and wonders'. That is abominable theology that you want God's supernatural actions to be called magic. Have you been reading some occult handbook along with the Bible?

You have not given us respectable hermeneutics, but your invention of 'magic, signs and wonders'. You do not want a serious discussion about God's actions in the real world when you stoop to this kind of heterodoxy.

Oz

 

[StanJ]

Hermeneutics and painful common sense.

Sadly you appear to not understand what hermeneutics is if you use it in conjunction with painful common sense? Hermeneutics is the study of the methodological principles of interpretation. This does not rely on common sense but more so on the common understanding or consensus of any given scripture. Yours is not common nor does it employ any hermeneutics that I can determine. Properly exegeting scripture is part of sound hermeneutics, so it behooves you to actually exegete what you assert and not just state it. As well, exegesis does not involve doctoral dissertation, but plain simple exposition of the actual word without any inference, implied or otherwise.

Isaiah 55:8-9
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."

 

[jaybird]

just had a thought. the place where Jacob saw the Lord he named Peniel.
not saying it means anything just throwing it out there.

 

[iakov]

Not from where I'm sitting, but as this is WAY off topic, take it up with Admin.

Just because you're not having a problem doesn't mean that a tutorial wouldn't help people who ARE having problems trying to figure put how this forum works.

 

[KingJ]

Wow KingJ, you call God's miracles, magic, signs and wonders? God does not do magic. If fact he abhors those who practice magic arts .... :unsure: Ezekiel 13:18, 20,

Acts 19
11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul,12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.”14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”
16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them,so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.

When people want a visual miracle and are not contented with God's provision by other means, it is magic that they are after. There is no other word for it. I call it like it is. Jumping out the wheel chair is possible by God. I am not arguing that. But people do not care about the fact that there are probably 1000 miracles already taking place just with that guy sitting in the wheel chair .

It is really sad that Christians today are ironically after magic and not miracles.

 

[KingJ]

King,

I didn't ask for what faith teachers teach. My request was simple: Please give me your systematic theology for 'God prefers to not do a miracle'.

What did I get? This rave, with no systematic theology but a few cherry picked verses and concepts, mixed with your denigration of God's supernatural work.

Then you have the audacity to link God's miracles to, 'Lets call it what it is. Magic, signs and wonders'. That is abominable theology that you want God's supernatural actions to be called magic. Have you been reading some occult handbook along with the Bible?

You have not given us respectable hermeneutics, but your invention of 'magic, signs and wonders'. You do not want a serious discussion about God's actions in the real world when you stoop to this kind of heterodoxy.

Oz

I don't feel a longer post or one with much effort is required of me on this. It is you that needs to do such as you are completely defying Christian logic. I have had lengthy discussions with many on this Oz. Examinng much scripture. I will not waste my time and effort when you already have your mind made up. If you feel you have scripture that disagrees with me, feel free to quote it. I will gladly help you grasp that you are reading with and have been taught a prejudiced view. Well there is a lot of assuming at the moment from me, but based on what you said above I think you pretty much fit the profile of those I disagree 100% with on this subject. Evidenced by the eagerness to be rude and purposely naively miss interpret what I said about magic .

Expecting to see a man jump out a wheel chair is an expectation of magic on your part.

 

[KingJ]

And don't forget Simon the Sorcerer in Acts 8: 9 - 25

Not all magic is Simon the Sorcerer magic . Ever seen Penn and Teller?

 

[OzSpen]

I don't feel a longer post or one with much effort is required of me on this. It is you that needs to do such as you are completely defying Christian logic. I have had lengthy discussions with many on this Oz. Examinng much scripture. I will not waste my time and effort when you already have your mind made up. If you feel you have scripture that disagrees with me, feel free to quote it. I will gladly help you grasp that you are reading with and have been taught a prejudiced view. Well there is a lot of assuming at the moment from me, but based on what you said above I think you pretty much fit the profile of those I disagree 100% with on this subject. Evidenced by the eagerness to be rude and purposely naively miss interpret what I said about magic .

Expecting to see a man jump out a wheel chair is an expectation of magic on your part.

KingJ,

Where did I say anything about expecting a man to jump out of a wheel chair? That's your invention - a straw man fallacy.

Since i believe what the Scriptures state,that means I believe:

• Anyone who believes in Jesus shall do the works he did and even greater works than these (John 14:12);
• God gives the gifts of miracles (1 Cor 12:28);
• God gives the gifts of healing to some people (1 Cor 12:9; I Cor 12: 28: 1 Cor 12:30).

As long as these verses are in the Bible, I'll believe God's ability to perform supernatural gifts. And how long will these gifts continue? They will continue until we 'see him 'face to face' (1 Cor 13:12).

Oz

 

[KingJ]

Well, given the human rationale being used in KJ's post, I would think that a full barrel reply probably won't work either. But we can always hope the Holy Spirit will intercede and convey the truth when all other reasoning fails.

Voices in our head opposing common sense are not the Holy Spirit. They are a prejudiced view / mind telling you things.

 

[OzSpen]

When people want a visual miracle and are not contented with God's provision by other means, it is magic that they are after. There is no other word for it. I call it like it is. Jumping out the wheel chair is possible by God. I am not arguing that. But people do not care about the fact that there are probably 1000 miracles already taking place just with that guy sitting in the wheel chair .

It is really sad that Christians today are ironically after magic and not miracles.

I find it even sadder that you want to define God's supernatural ability to perform miracles, as magic.

 

[OzSpen]

Voices in our head opposing common sense are not the Holy Spirit. They are a prejudiced view / mind telling you things.

So what are voices in your head that define God's miracles as magic? Fantasy? :wub:

 

[StanJ]

I don't feel a longer post or one with much effort is required of me on this. It is you that needs to do such as you are completely defying Christian logic. I have had lengthy discussions with many on this Oz. Examinng much scripture. I will not waste my time and effort when you already have your mind made up. If you feel you have scripture that disagrees with me, feel free to quote it. I will gladly help you grasp that you are reading with and have been taught a prejudiced view. Well there is a lot of assuming at the moment from me, but based on what you said above I think you pretty much fit the profile of those I disagree 100% with on this subject. Evidenced by the eagerness to be rude and purposely naively miss interpret what I said about magic .
Expecting to see a man jump out a wheel chair is an expectation of magic on your part.

And with that you fail in supporting your assertions. You can roll your eyes all you want but Angelina and Oz are right, there is no magic in the Bible.

 

[StanJ]

Voices in our head opposing common sense are not the Holy Spirit. They are a prejudiced view / mind telling you things.

That you think your common sense is superior to the holy spirit's prodding in our minds and hearts, is very telling and quite sad. You obviously have no trust or understanding of the Holy Spirit whatsoever in your life. Have you actually ever received the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

 

[StanJ]

Not all magic is Simon the Sorcerer magic . Ever seen Penn and Teller?

We're talking Bible here KJ, not magic and FYI Penn and Teller are illusionists. There's a big difference in the two. Illusions look like magic but magic does not exist. The fact that I have to point that out to you is rather sad.

 

[KingJ]

Sadly you appear to not understand what hermeneutics is if you use it in conjunction with painful common sense? Hermeneutics is the study of the methodological principles of interpretation. This does not rely on common sense but more so on the common understanding or consensus of any given scripture. Yours is not common nor does it employ any hermeneutics that I can determine. Properly exegeting scripture is part of sound hermeneutics, so it behooves you to actually exegete what you assert and not just state it. As well, exegesis does not involve doctoral dissertation, but plain simple exposition of the actual word without any inference, implied or otherwise.

Isaiah 55:8-9
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Without painful common sense / IE sanity, you can completely fail at hermeneutics as Calvinism does. As you are doing.

Believing you need faith in God of the universe to be able to make a man jump out a wheel chair = Working brain fail, Christian fail / total insanity.
Believing God is eager to show off for our petty carnal wish for magic = Working brain fail, Christian fail / total insanity. This is ironcially what many healing preachers are suggesting if we are just dead honest and call a spade a spade.

The verse you quoted needs other scripture. Like try reading that with 1 Cor 11:31 or 1 Cor 6:1-9.

 

[KingJ]

We're talking Bible here KJ, not magic and FYI Penn and Teller are illusionists. There's a big difference in the two. Illusions look like magic but magic does not exist. The fact that I have to point that out to you is rather sad.

Dude are you for real? You are so quick to jump, belittle and sound smart. It is always amusing reading your posts. Did you really need to say the last part in your post? That you did, is sad .

When a supernatural force is involved in something unbeleivable happening, we call it magic. When you want to see a man jump out a wheel chair you are after magic.

We call Penn and Teller magicians and illusionists because the illusion appears unreal. Can't believe I am discussing this. You are pedantic.