Missing from bible

[OzSpen]

It was answered in the third sentence of post # 167.

The first sentence of post #167 stated: 'Are you? If you expecting God to do a miracle on a promise basis you cannot get more old covenant.'

That is a pointless statement in communicating any useful information about your assertion that adulterers are stoned to death. I asked you to defend that statement under the New Covenant and you have so far provided ZERO information to defend your stance.

I'm not prepared to continue playing games with you.

Bye,
Oz

 

[KingJ]

A full definition of 'magic' by the Merriam-Webster dictionary is,


To apply these definitions to miracles in the New Covenant is to defy the basics of definition.

Oz

Please ensure Stan reads this too. He needs to see point 3 there. I think you do too.

To apply these definitions to miracles in the New Covenant is to defy the basics of definition.

Oz

Hold up. Now you are putting words in my mouth.

I said signs are magic. Angelina jumped on that and I explained myself in post # 149. Did you not read that?

 

[KingJ]

You are inventing again. This is a straw man fallacy. We cannot have a rational conversation when you continue to do this.

I will leave this conversation with you because you have abandoned reasonable conversation with me.

Bye, Bye
Oz

Well you have not said much other then personal insults. So I can't imagine what is going on up there in your mind.

I can only imagine you believe '''the greater works we will do'' is magic.

 

[KingJ]

The first sentence

I am pretty sure I said third sentence.

That is a pointless statement in communicating any useful information about your assertion that adulterers are stoned to death. I asked you to defend that statement under the New Covenant and you have so far provided ZERO information to defend your stance.

Please see the third sentence in that post and especially post # 164.

 

[KingJ]

I will leave this conversation with you because you have abandoned reasonable conversation with me.

Show me one post from you that has reason or qualifies as a conversation. You have not discussed anything I have said. You have just brushed it all off. Now that is fine if you share your incredible wisdom on the subject. But you have not.

 

[StanJ]

1. I find your statement quite ironic .
2. Lateral thought.
3. Say what? :huh:
4. Well done, you found another word. Yes we can say that. We can also call it magic.
5. Well yes that is insane too. No, that is not what I was saying. Why are you raising this?
6. Say what? Do you believe I believe our brains are not God given? What is going on up there Stan?
7. Do you understand them? If we take your scripture in isolation we can end arguments with ''I am right because the Holy Spirit told me so''. The scripture I gave is Paul telling us to use that God given grey matter between our ears. Not sure how you think its not relevant...

This is all avoidance KJ and doesn't deal with anything I asked you except to deflect and obfuscate the truth. If this is all you're going to do then you might as well not even respond to my post because it doesn't help support your point of view one iota.

 

[StanJ]

Magic is not condemned. ''Sorcerery, charmers, mediums, necromancer and one who inquires of the dead'', is.
Now we can call that magic. Just as we can call illusionists magicians. But for some reason you are not grasping what has been said to you twice already....''the word magic can be used whenever a supernatural force is involved in something unbeleivable happening''. IE we can call healing magical.
This is the third post dedicated to helping you understand this. I should not have needed to post a single one.

It sure is, if you know how to read the Bible, but sadly you pick just one verse and think it sets a precedent, which it doesn't.

Revelation 9:21
Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Revelation 18:23
....By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
Revelation 21:8
But....all those who practice magic arts....—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Revelation 22:15
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

These are just in the last book of the Bible but there are plenty in the rest of the Bible. It seems you are hell-bent on supporting your point of you regardless of what the Bible actually says? So be it, it's your funeral.

 

[KingJ]

This is all avoidance KJ and doesn't deal with anything I asked you except to deflect and obfuscate the truth. If this is all you're going to do then you might as well not even respond to my post because it doesn't help support your point of view one iota.

This is the tenth time you have givien me a meaningless / conversationless / pointless / insulting post. If anyone is obfuscating and elusive it is you.

I am more then up for a friendly, enriching and fruitful discussion. I proved this with my first reply to you and Oz. But you two took / are taking the holier then though / wiser then though / etc etc path.

 

[KingJ]

It sure is, if you know how to read the Bible, but sadly you pick just one verse and think it sets a precedent, which it doesn't.

Revelation 9:21
Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Revelation 18:23
....By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
Revelation 21:8
But....all those who practice magic arts....—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Revelation 22:15
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

These are just in the last book of the Bible but there are plenty in the rest of the Bible. It seems you are hell-bent on supporting your point of you regardless of what the Bible actually says? So be it, it's your funeral.

My funeral? The statements from you Stan. How can you say the things you do to fellow Christians? This is a Christian site. You are a Christian. I am a Christian. Why so hellbent on destroying and not lifting up? Why can't you correct politely? Some disagreement and tension is understandeable. But this is now the second day of it. Is it not tiring to post like this? I have passed insults too. But I can't keep it up another day .

You can be forgiven for your frustration with me using the word magic. Clearly you have scrpture and your reasons. I explained myself in post 149. I still disagree with you. Yes it used there but the word is a subject. Just like biology. Bioliogy encompasses X, Y and Z. Magic encompasses X, Y and Z. Magic also imho encompasses signs and wonders. People looking for signs and wonders are interested in magic NOT miracles from God. IE They are looking for two fish becoming 5000, when they should be looking at 5000 empty bellies being fed. If you disagree, its fine. I don't expect all to agree with me. I will dfinitely chew on other views. It is quite clear I have jumped on three toes with the use of the word ''magic'' .

 

[OzSpen]

Magic also imho encompasses signs and wonders. People looking for signs and wonders are interested in magic NOT miracles from God. IE They are looking for two fish becoming 5000, when they should be looking at 5000 empty bellies being fed. If you disagree, its fine. I don't expect all to agree with me. I will dfinitely chew on other views. It is quite clear I have jumped on three toes with the use of the word ''magic'' .

So, are you saying KingJ that this Scripture is pointing to those who are interested in the magic of signs and wonders? I'm speaking of Heb 2:3-5 (ESV):

how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, 4 while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

Are you casting magical aspersions on this Scripture or are you allowing for supernatural signs and wonders and miracles from the hand of God?

Oz

 

[StanJ]

This is the tenth time you have givien me a meaningless / conversationless / pointless / insulting post. If anyone is obfuscating and elusive it is you.
I am more then up for a friendly, enriching and fruitful discussion. I proved this with my first reply to you and Oz. But you two took / are taking the holier then though / wiser then though / etc etc path.

I'm not keeping score but if you continue to speak about the Miracles of God as magic this is exactly what you're going to get... pushed back.
The fact that you don't like the pushback is not my problem but if you think that I'm insulting you then report the postal at the moderators decide. It's not your job to publicly accuse me of insulting you when it hasn't been established that I have or have not. In my opinion all you're doing is becoming reactionary because you really have no answers to my posts. You actually have to post in a friendly manner to get a friendly response. If you post in this negative or inflammatory manner then don't be surprised when you get heated replies back although in my opinion they weren't heated or insulting.
Do you honestly expect that you can just say something on a discussion forum and not be challenged? Do you think that you are holier than anyone else here and when somebody rebukes you with correction, that they're acting 'holier than thou'? Personally I think you're a little full of yourself.

 

[StanJ]

My funeral? The statements from you Stan. How can you say the things you do to fellow Christians? This is a Christian site. You are a Christian. I am a Christian. Why so hellbent on destroying and not lifting up? Why can't you correct politely? Some disagreement and tension is understandeable. But this is now the second day of it. Is it not tiring to post like this? I have passed insults too. But I can't keep it up another day.

You can be forgiven for your frustration with me using the word magic. Clearly you have scrpture and your reasons. I explained myself in post 149. I still disagree with you. Yes it used there but the word is a subject. Just like biology. Bioliogy encompasses X, Y and Z. Magic encompasses X, Y and Z. Magic also imho encompasses signs and wonders. People looking for signs and wonders are interested in magic NOT miracles from God. IE They are looking for two fish becoming 5000, when they should be looking at 5000 empty bellies being fed. If you disagree, its fine. I don't expect all to agree with me. I will dfinitely chew on other views. It is quite clear I have jumped on three toes with the use of the word ''magic''.

It appears that you have a problem with two types of vernacular, the common time that we use everyday like on this forum and the kind that's being used in Scripture. Regardless, when you are instructed about your own wording then you should think about it instead of reacting to it. Sadly you tend to react and think later and that's not anybody's fault but your own. I expect I'm dealing with adults when I'm replying in this forum and I expect no less in return.

 

[KingJ]

1. So, are you saying KingJ that this Scripture is pointing to those who are interested in the magic of signs and wonders? I'm speaking of Heb 2:3-5 (ESV):

2. Are you casting magical aspersions on this Scripture or

3. are you allowing for supernatural signs and wonders and miracles from the hand of God?

1. No.
2. No.
3. Yes. But lets differentiate between miracles from God and magic.

Would God ever do a miracle to tickle someones ears? Would God ever do a miracle when fluzy Christians demand it / tempt Him? The name of Jesus alone can cast out demons and heal the sick. These are not miracles from God. These are not signs and wonders from God. Those in Matt 7:22 are not interested in God's work. They are after magic. As is everyone wanting a Yacht VS a log.

And with that I am done with this thread. Can't repeat myself again.

 

[OzSpen]

1. No.
2. No.
3. Yes. But lets differentiate between miracles from God and magic.

Would God ever do a miracle to tickle someones ears? Would God ever do a miracle when fluzy Christians demand it / tempt Him? The name of Jesus alone can cast out demons and heal the sick. These are not miracles from God. These are not signs and wonders from God. Those in Matt 7:22 are not interested in God's work. They are after magic. As is everyone wanting a Yacht VS a log.

And with that I am done with this thread. Can't repeat myself again.

What happened through Paul and Barnabas at Iconium? See Acts Acts 14:3 (ESV), 'So they remained for a long time, speaking boldly for the Lord, who bore witness to the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands'.

They were not performing magic, but signs and wonders were done through the ministry of these 2 Christians.This verse states clearly that it was 'the Lord ... granting signs and wonders'. it does not state, that it was 'the Lord granting signs and wonders through his magical intervention'.

Signs and wonders as magic is your imposition on the biblical text.

Of course there will be imitators as Matt 7:22 (ESV) affirms. Because there are the fake does not discount the genuine.

Oz

 

[Guestman]

why are some things missing from the bible such as chakras, energy fields, sound, frequencies,pineal gland and things of this nature? and if not missing where are they.

i think there are many truths in the eastern beliefs. these people know all about these things in their belief system yet in the west our bible says nothing of these things. when i mention these things to other Christians they think i am crazy and call this devils work. Tibetan Buddhist devote majority of their lives to spirituality and yet most western main stream Christians spend less than one day a week, with most of our focus on our job, our money, shopping and television. this makes no sense to me.

Jesus told his disciples: "If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free".(John 8:31, 32) He is the one who set forth and clarified what "the truth" is in many areas, such as concerning the Kingdom, using it over 100 times during his ministry and with illustrations to explain it.(Matt 13)


Beliefs such as chakras or different yoga paths, of energy fields or bioenergentic fields, sound, frequencies, pineal glands and things of this nature are missing from the Bible for a very specific reason, for they serve not only to distract but to draw people away from what is really "the truth" and into the world of false religion. Eastern beliefs are an invitation to spiritistic practices that are detestable to God.(see Deut 18:10-12), as well teaching of the immortality of the soul, transmigration of the soul, etc., beliefs that are falsehoods.


They are not "truths" about the "source of life" (Ps 36:9), Jehovah God, who is called "the God of truth"(Ps 31:5) and of his purpose of the earth becoming a paradise for "meek" ones eternally.(Ps 37:11, 29; Isa 45:18; Matt 5:5) Jesus said concerning pleasing God and gaining life without end: "This means everlasting life, their (Jesus genuine disciples) coming to know you, the only true God and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ".(John 17:3)


The different paths of yoga originated in India as part of Hinduism, one of the multitude of false religions of the false religious empire called Babylon the Great.(Rev 17:5) Yoga teaches "the suppression through progressive discipline of individual will". This allows the mind to be emptied of all "things".


How does this stack up with what Jesus taught at Matt 12:43-45, in which the mind is emptied and allows for an "unclean spirit" or demon to take possession of a person and "the final circumstance of that man becomes worse than the first" ?


Did Jesus ever empty his mind ? Jesus told Satan: "It is written (at Deut 8:3): ' Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah's mouth".(Matt 4:4) Jesus constantly kept Jehovah before him at all times, so that true Christians will likewise do the same, tying them as a reminder on their hands and like a headband on their forehead to always see them.(See Deut 6:4-9)


Psalms 119:105 says of the Bible: "Your word is a lamp to my foot, and a light for my path". True Christians carefully adhere to this admonition. The apostle Paul gave Timothy this warning: "Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches (worthless talk, literally "fruitless discussion") that violate what is holy (or clean from God's standpoint) and from the contradictions of the falsely called "knowledge". By making a show of such knowledge, some have deviated from the faith".(1 Tim 6:20, 21)


Gnostics in the 1st century contended that salvation is dependent upon a special mystical knowledge, teaching a "Christianity" that is "falsely called knowledge", perhaps being disciples of the noted Greek philosophers Socrates, Plato and Aristotle and considering themselves as intellectually superior to most genuine Christians.


Those from ancient Babylon attributed hidden meaning to Bible numbers, which supposedly revealed mystical truths while others taught that whereas the spirit is good, all matter is inherently evil, in which this chain of reasoning is also found in Persian dualism and in the Far East in China's ' yin' and ' yang'.


Jesus taught his genuine disciples to "keep your eyes open and watch out for the leaven (twisted and false teachings) of the Pharisees and Sadducees".(Matt 16:6, 12) The Bible is the only guide to knowing Jehovah God and "the truth", while a false religious world empire called Babylon the Great tells lies about him, distorting "the truth" and fooling the broad majority of mankind.(Matt 7:13) True Christians are thus warned to "get out of her.....if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues".(Rev 18:4)


The apostle Paul wrote: "Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy (such as eastern religions as well as the twisted teachings of Christendom) and empty deception , according to human tradition (beliefs created by people to satisfy their thoughts), according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ".(Col 2:8)


The apostle Paul, quoting from Joel 2:32, wrote that "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved".(Rom 10:13) And Proverbs 18:10 says: "The name of Jehovah is a strong tower. Into it the righteous runs and receives protection". True Christians realize that what they accept must be "pure" (see James 1:27), not "adulterating the word of God".(2 Cor 4:2)

 

[jaybird]

Jesus told his disciples: "If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free".(John 8:31, 32) He is the one who set forth and clarified what "the truth" is in many areas, such as concerning the Kingdom, using it over 100 times during his ministry and with illustrations to explain it.(Matt 13)

Beliefs such as chakras or different yoga paths, of energy fields or bioenergentic fields, sound, frequencies, pineal glands and things of this nature are missing from the Bible for a very specific reason, for they serve not only to distract but to draw people away from what is really "the truth" and into the world of false religion. Eastern beliefs are an invitation to spiritistic practices that are detestable to God.(see Deut 18:10-12), as well teaching of the immortality of the soul, transmigration of the soul, etc., beliefs that are falsehoods.

none of the things in Dt 18 are mentioned in my OP. but if these things truly are evil, where does the bible say they are evil?



The different paths of yoga originated in India as part of Hinduism, one of the multitude of false religions of the false religious empire called Babylon the Great.(Rev 17:5) Yoga teaches "the suppression through progressive discipline of individual will". This allows the mind to be emptied of all "things".

im pretty sure yoga originated from the vedas and not hinduism. but its not important

How does this stack up with what Jesus taught at Matt 12:43-45, in which the mind is emptied and allows for an "unclean spirit" or demon to take possession of a person and "the final circumstance of that man becomes worse than the first" ?

Did Jesus ever empty his mind ? Jesus told Satan: "It is written (at Deut 8:3): ' Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah's mouth".(Matt 4:4) Jesus constantly kept Jehovah before him at all times, so that true Christians will likewise do the same, tying them as a reminder on their hands and like a headband on their forehead to always see them.(See Deut 6:4-9)

i think its a good idea to empty ones mind from all the garbage in this world that distracts us from following the teachings of Jesus. if its a bad idea, why does Jesus so often go off alone to pray, why does He emphasize silence and solitude in prayer?

Rom 12 2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

how does one renew their mind when it is full of the things of this physical world? how does one understand what Jesus taught when their mind is so focused on their job, whats on tv, shopping, money, etc etc. would you not want to empty your mind of such things?

 

[Guestman]

At Deuteronomy 18:10-12, it provides a list of spiritistic practices that our Maker, Jehovah God hates and rightly so, for they are elements his enemies, the demons use to control humans. Involving oneself in them leads to being under demonic control, knowingly or unknowingly.


Does every type of spiritistic activity or other unclean activities have to be mentioned ?(see Heb 5:13, 14) Hinduism and its chakras (or various parts of the body considered as centers of spiritual power or stations that can ascend to the residence of the deity of Vishnu in the mind) did not exist in 1473 B.C.E. when Moses spoke to the nation of Israel after having left polytheistic Egypt some 40 years earlier in 1513 B.C.E. and just before entering the land of immoral Canaan with its vast array of false gods.


God gave the Israelites a set of laws and guidelines that they were to carefully follow, the Mosaic Law covenant in 1513 B.C.E., a national constitution that kept them from the ways and attitudes of the surrounding nations with its spiritistic practices, producing a symbolic "wall" of protection.(see Eph 2:14)


At Exodus 34, God tells the nation of Israel: "Pay attention to what I am commanding you today. Here I am driving out from before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. Be careful that you do not make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it may prove to be a snare among you".(Ex 34:11, 12)


These surrounding nations had practices that attached themselves to demons, unseen former spirit "sons of God" who rebelled and created the shadowy world of clairvoyance and supposed telepathic communication, along with a whole array of other distorted religious ideas that lead directly to the unseen wicked spirit realm.


This has led to a wide diversity of religious thought and religions, such as Hinduism and yoga with its concept of a head standing position called Kundalini or "serpent power" (also called the "yoga of awareness" that is "coiled in the base of the spine" and dating back to the 8th century C.E.) that is supposed to develop extrasensory perception.


All religious thought and practices that are not Jehovah God's (or "the truth", John 8:44) form the composite false religious world-wide entity called Babylon the Great, of which every one who wants God's favor has to abandon.(Rev 18:4)


And of the vedas (or Veda), they are Hindu sacred texts, spoken orally for centuries but then written down in the 14th century C.E. and which Hindus consider as apauruseya, meaning "not of a man, superhuman" and "impersonal, authorless". The Hindus do not believe in a personal God and thus falls far short in the search for the true God.


Thus, only by closely adhering to "the way" (Isa 30:21) established by Jesus Christ can a person come to know "the only true God", Jehovah and not through any of the religions of "the world".

 

[jaybird]

This has led to a wide diversity of religious thought and religions, such as Hinduism and yoga with its concept of a head standing position called Kundalini or "serpent power" (also called the "yoga of awareness" that is "coiled in the base of the spine" and dating back to the 8th century C.E.) that is supposed to develop extrasensory perception.

And of the vedas (or Veda), they are Hindu sacred texts, spoken orally for centuries but then written down in the 14th century C.E. and which Hindus consider as apauruseya, meaning "not of a man, superhuman" and "impersonal, authorless". The Hindus do not believe in a personal God and thus falls far short in the search for the true God.

Thus, only by closely adhering to "the way" (Isa 30:21) established by Jesus Christ can a person come to know "the only true God", Jehovah and not through any of the religions of "the world".

interesting. hard to understand especially when Jesus says He is the way and narrow is tha gate and many will not get through the gate. Jesus makes no mention of hindus being kept out of the gate but He does give some specifics on who will not get through the gate, going by memory but i thing He mentions thieves, murders, and destroyers. compare this to the indian / hindu culture and they seem to be nothing like that. there has been a rise of these bad things in india in the last 20 or more years but this is mostly due to western economic influence. the hindus regard Jesus as a great teacher, a prophet sent from the heavens, accept His teachings and practice them in their daily lives. did Jesus not say if they are not against us they are with us?
and these people are evil? makes no sense.

 

[jaybird]

Really? What a bizarre reaction to a perfectly ordinary part of the brain. It secretes melatonin, which regulates our circadian rhythm.

Every part of our brain is amazing and mysterious. Why single out the pineal body? Why revere it? God made it, it's no more sacred than anything else just because we don't altogether understand it.

strange that the Egyptians, the ones that built the pyramids which we cant duplicate today, they revered this gland. made statues of it and its on their hieroglyphs everywhere. maybe sleep disorders were epidemic in the empire lol.

 

[OzSpen]

why are some things missing from the bible such as chakras, energy fields, sound, frequencies,pineal gland and things of this nature? and if not missing where are they.

i think there are many truths in the eastern beliefs. these people know all about these things in their belief system yet in the west our bible says nothing of these things. when i mention these things to other Christians they think i am crazy and call this devils work. Tibetan Buddhist devote majority of their lives to spirituality and yet most western main stream Christians spend less than one day a week, with most of our focus on our job, our money, shopping and television. this makes no sense to me.

jaybird,

That's because 'it is impossible for God to lie' (Heb 6:18 ESV).

What you consider as 'many truths in eastern beliefs' are your thoughts on 'many truths' and not God's thoughts. They are not in the Bible because they are not genuinely of God.

Deut 32:4 confirms, 'He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he'.

God's works and ways are perfect and just. His ways do not include the thoughts of eastern religion. In other words, for God to accept the thoughts and beliefs of eastern religion, he would be lying, i.e. not telling the truth about reality.

Devoting lives to spirituality does not mean devoting lives to God's truth.

Oz