More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is disturbing that you think sin continues on for all of eternity.

I don't think that and have never said that. Show me exactly where I said that. Good luck finding that. Once again you have just made something up in your imagination.

Once the Lord burns up the heavens and the earth and ushers in the new heavens and new earth there will never be sin or death again. I have said this MANY times and, yet, here you are saying something ridiculous like this.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't think that and have never said that. Show me exactly where I said that. Good luck finding that. Once again you have just made something up in your imagination.

Once the Lord burns up the heavens and the earth and ushers in the new heavens and new earth there will never be sin or death again. I have said this MANY times and, yet, here you are saying something ridiculous like this.

I post the same thing, but the only difference is you don't accept a millennial reign of Christ after the Second Coming. The millennium is just as free from sin as your version of Revelation.

If you claim there is sin on earth after the Second Coming in the Millennium, you are being hypocritical to say it cannot be in the NHNE. There is no sin in the Millennium just as you claim there is no sin in the NHNE. They both come after the Second Coming where sin is removed from creation.

If you claim sin is in the Millennium, then you are literally claiming it happens in the NHNE as well.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I post the same thing, but the only difference is you don't accept a millennial reign of Christ after the Second Coming. The millennium is just as free from sin as your version of Revelation.

If you claim there is sin on earth after the Second Coming in the Millennium, you are being hypocritical to say it cannot be in the NHNE. There is no sin in the Millennium just as you claim there is no sin in the NHNE. They both come after the Second Coming where sin is removed from creation.

If you claim sin is in the Millennium, then you are literally claiming it happens in the NHNE as well.

You don't even acknowledge that there is sin during Satan's little season, so why should I take you seriously on this?

 

[Timtofly]

You don't even acknowledge that there is sin during Satan's little season, so why should I take you seriously on this?

They were consumed with fire. Sin was not on the earth, because those consumed by fire were not on the earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

They were consumed with fire. Sin was not on the earth, because those consumed by fire were not on the earth.

I wish I knew how you come up with the things you say that make no sense. Are you actually reading the text?

Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Clearly, "those consumed by fire" are on the earth at the time, as the text explicitly indicates. How can you say otherwise?

 

[Timtofly]

I wish I knew how you come up with the things you say that make no sense. Are you actually reading the text?

Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Clearly, "those consumed by fire" are on the earth at the time, as the text explicitly indicates. How can you say otherwise?

There is that word "But" there you missed.

Is marching across the earth a sin? Did they disobey a law that declared marching across the earth is forbidden?

What would be disobedience in this scenario? Actually killing those in the camp of the saints would be disobedience. So were they consumed by fire, or did they kill people?

Now you claim that just thinking about it is sin. How does this verse apply then? James 1:13-15

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

Seems like God skipped over the sin part and went straight to Death in the scenario. They were deceived by Satan with the intent to kill. They even marched a very long way and put in a lot of effort. But they were consumed by fire. Was there a law saying that no one could listen to Satan? Was there a law that said no one could be deceived by Satan? In order for sin to take root and enter, there has to be an action associated with breaking a law. In Adam's case, Adam himself could not eat from the Tree. The moment that happened death occurred.

You have yet to give an established law they broke to incur death. Otherwise God killed them prior to breaking any law. Being deceived by Satan was one thing. Marching across the earth is the next step, but God stepped in before they could act on their deception and hard work to get to where they were going. That is the point. If God had stepped in and killed Adam prior to the point Adam ate from the fruit, Adam would not have ever disobeyed God. He would have been dead.

 

[Timtofly]

I wish I knew how you come up with the things you say that make no sense. Are you actually reading the text?

You don't even think this happens after the Second Coming. Of course Jesus is on the earth reigning in Jerusalem where this camp of the saints is. Jesus was there with them the entire 1,000 years. If a person is dead where are they? On the earth still? Not even their bodies remained. They were consumed by fire. Kind of hard to be on the earth at that point, and in sin. Sin was never accomplished, because they were dead.

Now if you can prove they killed a bunch of people then you have a point. Thou shalt not kill has been around since the beginning. God tried to talk Cain out of doing such a thing even before there was a law against it. Instead of talking this out, God sent down fire from heaven. You can assume what ever you want to assume. You cannot apply it to the here and now, because Jesus is currently not on earth ruling with a rod of iron, sending any one who disobeys just once to Death. In the case of these consumed by fire, it was before they broke the law.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is that word "But" there you missed.

I didn't miss that. It's irrelevant to the discussion.

Is marching across the earth a sin? Did they disobey a law that declared marching across the earth is forbidden?

LOL. Are you just playing dumb or...? Is that all they're doing is marching across the earth? They're just taking a leisurely stroll across the earth, are they? We have no way of discerning what their intentions are? Give me a break. They clearly would have the intention of destroying "the camp of the saints" since we know they are led by Satan and we know that is his goal. And what does scripture say about hating other people? It says it's a sin and makes someone a murderer (1 John 3:15). So, to act like they are not sinning when they clearly have bad intentions is ridiculous and does not take into account that someone can be guilty of sin by having sinful thoughts and motives.

What would be disobedience in this scenario?

I have already explained that to you several times before and I just did it again above. So, you obviously ask questions like this and then just ignore the answers you're given.

Actually killing those in the camp of the saints would be disobedience. So were they consumed by fire, or did they kill people?

Now you claim that just thinking about it is sin.

I don't claim that, Jesus does! I just believe what He claimed. Do you care about what Jesus said?

1 John 3:15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

Do you agree with what Jesus said here? Do you believe that if someone hates someone else that it makes them a murderer, as Jesus said?

He also said lusting after someone makes you guilty of adultery (this obviously applies to married people in particular). Do you agree with that or do you think Jesus was just making that up or didn't know what He was talking about?

How does this verse apply then? James 1:13-15

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

Seems like God skipped over the sin part and went straight to Death in the scenario. They were deceived by Satan with the intent to kill. They even marched a very long way and put in a lot of effort.

What are you talking about? You continue to act as if someone can't sin unless they actually commit a certain act, but you are ignoring what Jesus taught about this. Do you think that passage just cancels those other verses out that talk about sinning by hating someone or lusting after someone? It doesn't. At the point where they are hating the saints and wanting to kill them, that is a sin. If you believe what Jesus taught, then you would agree. You're trying desperately to get around that, but you can't.

But they were consumed by fire. Was there a law saying that no one could listen to Satan?

You think listening to Satan, who always has evil intentions, would not be a sin? Are you for real? How can you not even know what sin is?

Was there a law that said no one could be deceived by Satan?

He clearly leads them in his pursuit of destroying the saints. How can that not be a sin? Jesus said hating someone is a sin and makes someone guilty of murder. Why are you ignoring that in this case?

In order for sin to take root and enter, there has to be an action associated with breaking a law.

No, there does not! That is not what Jesus taught! Why are you rejecting the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ? This is serious. You need to repent of YOUR sin of not accepting what Jesus taught. He very clearly taught that someone can sin by having evil intentions whether they actually carry those out in physical actions or not. Why do you not accept His teaching?

In Adam's case, Adam himself could not eat from the Tree. The moment that happened death occurred.

You have yet to give an established law they broke to incur death. Otherwise God killed them prior to breaking any law. Being deceived by Satan was one thing. Marching across the earth is the next step, but God stepped in before they could act on their deception and hard work to get to where they were going. That is the point. If God had stepped in and killed Adam prior to the point Adam ate from the fruit, Adam would not have ever disobeyed God. He would have been dead.

Do you deny that they hate the saints and have the intention of destroying them? That's clearly what Satan wants, right? So, that is clearly the intention there. That makes them guilty of murder, according to Jesus (1 John 3:15). You need to start accepting what Jesus taught. Not doing so results in the false doctrines you believe in.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You don't even think this happens after the Second Coming.

That's irrelevant. You denied that it takes place on earth even though it explicitly states that it takes place on earth. Just admit that you were wrong and move on instead of making yourself look even worse than you already have.

Of course Jesus is on the earth reigning in Jerusalem where this camp of the saints is. Jesus was there with them the entire 1,000 years.

Then why did you say that the events related to Satan's little season are not happening on the earth? Did you forget what you actually believe or what?

If a person is dead where are they? On the earth still?

That isn't what anyone was talking about. We were talking about what they are doing while they are still alive.

Not even their bodies remained. They were consumed by fire.

No kidding. Who would say otherwise?

Kind of hard to be on the earth at that point, and in sin. Sin was never accomplished, because they were dead.

Who said that they're still on the earth after being consumed by fire? No one. You're always addressing things that no one has even said. You have very poor reading comprehension skills for whatever reason. Why are you wasting time talking nonsense? They sinned BEFORE they were killed because Jesus taught that hating someone is equivalent to murder and they clearly hate the saints before being consumed by fire.

Now if you can prove they killed a bunch of people then you have a point.

I'm making a point about their thoughts and intentions and showing what that means based on what Jesus taught. Why do you not care about what Jesus taught about sin? That makes you look really bad and shows a lack of reverence for Him.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't claim that, Jesus does! I just believe what He claimed. Do you care about what Jesus said?

1 John 3:15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

Do you agree with what Jesus said here? Do you believe that if someone hates someone else that it makes them a murderer, as Jesus said?

He also said lusting after someone makes you guilty of adultery (this obviously applies to married people in particular). Do you agree with that or do you think Jesus was just making that up or didn't know what He was talking about?

I pointed out that, that point only pertains to those in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

These people are not in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. These people don't even know what sin is to think about sin. What part of no sin period or everlasting righteousness are you not understanding about these future people? They are in the same condition as Adam and Eve were prior to Adam's disobedience and sin entering into the world. Jesus does not kill everybody who thinks about disobedience. Jesus sentences those to the death penalty the instant they break a law. Should Eve have been immediately killed for listening to Satan, and thinking about eating the fruit? She was not even punished when she ate. The punishment happened, and death happened when Adam disobeyed God.

So what law did they break to deserve death? That had to happen prior to death, except in this case it says they were consumed by fire before any one was killed in the camp of the saints. That was their only intent, no? Doing battle is usually with the intent to do great bodily harm and even death. What verse claims they killed anyone in the camp of the saints?

Your questions about sin in the here and now only pertain to sin being in the world. There is no sin in the Millennium. Of course all sin is sin now. That has not been the point. The point is that no sin can even exist in the Millennium. One act of disobedience, and one is dead. No one can bring sin in and live in sin. Why would people think about sin, if it does not exist?

 

[Timtofly]

Who said that they're still on the earth after being consumed by fire? No one. You're always addressing things that no one has even said. You have very poor reading comprehension skills for whatever reason. Why are you wasting time talking nonsense? They sinned BEFORE they were killed because Jesus taught that hating someone is equivalent to murder and they clearly hate the saints before being consumed by fire.

I said they were not on the earth after being consumed by fire, and you called me a liar.

I never said they were not on the earth. Jesus is on the earth the whole time. Jesus is King in Jerusalem. The 144k are His camp of the saints.

Are you going to lie, and claim Jesus is not on the earth, since you have made such a big deal about this all happening on the earth, where they are ruling and reigning with Jesus on the earth?

If they were sinners it was after they were consumed by fire, thus still no sinners nor sin on the earth. Adam was a sinner in his new dead corruptible flesh. Adam was not a sinner before he disobeyed God. Did the Law of Moses include thoughts, or did Jesus explain that they were clueless in that regards? You have yet to state Eve was the first sinner, not Adam. According to you Eve thinking about eating, made her a sinner, prior to Adam's disobedience.