Most New Christians Live Life With 1/3rd The Power Of Christ!

[Nancy]

I do certainly agree. I see each person inhabiting his own small world, but before Jesus came the whole thing in each of us was corrupted and uninhabitable by God. We were dead to God.

This is similar to planet Earth. Planet Earth is capable in part of supporting physical/natural/carnal life in part...

The surface of Planet Earth consists of mostly of oceans, a very salty water in which humans cannot live [natural life]. Of the much smaller part of the surface not covered by oceans [land/dirt/soil] large portions are super dry hot [Sahara, Mojave, etc.] or cold deserts [Antarctica] making them really also uninhabitable for large populations of humans [natural life] without very substantial artificial assistance.

Similar to the world we call planet Earth, each person is a world, which is uninhabitable by God or His Son. it is corrupted. No real Life allowed, Jesus being the real Life. This real Life was lost when Adam and Eve disobeyed God. Jesus brought back the possibility to each of us, but like planet Earth even when a person is born again or from above, much remains uninhabitable. He repents and the Holy Spirit moves in but only in those places cleared by repentance.

Jesus spoke of this corrupted place which was all of all men when he said:

"The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

We were for the Jesus, the Head of the Body of Christ, uninhabitable.

Jesus said that before He had completed His own course and opened the Way for each of us to become a place for Him to lay His Head... the Body of Christ on which the Head would sit/set/lay. To become part of the Body of Christ something had to change in each potential part, you and me. This little world of ours is the one we need to overcome completely. That initial repentance and receiving of the Holy Ghost/Spirit is only the beginning.

There was/is work to do, but it cannot be done before we are able to receive proper nourishment. Proper nourishment for us is the flesh [the Word, but lifeless like Ezek 37 at the start] and blood [the Holy Spirit] of Jesus. Jesus [the Word] made Himself available to this by first becoming flesh [John 1:14] and then He opened the closed Door [Matt 57:51] so we,
properly prepared, could enter in and partake of the other special tree which Adam and Eve neglected until it was too late, the Tree of Life.

To be an effective part of the Body of Christ, we must become habitable by God and His Son!
This is the process each one should be going through once we really have the Holy Spirit in us. If a person consistently quenches the Holy Spirit, the place will not increase in habitable parts, but rather on the contrary will decrease. We want to become a place where Jesus is able to lay his head.

I have always wondered about that verse. Thank you for the explanation as it now makes sense to me. There is no half or part way with God...all or nothing IMHO. Now, maintaining that status of keeping open every inch of our hearts on a regular basis, can be difficult at times. But as Soldiers of The Cross...we march on, pick ourselves up and run that race!

 

[Helen]

Is there something wrong with what is written in James? Was not James inspired by God in what he wrote?
So try Peter:

"Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." I Peter 2:12


Many things have been going around with regard to the scriptures 'forever'. Perhaps it means that a unified solution that agrees with God has not yet been encountered. So should we stop searching for whatever God may want us to find?



At any one point in time we may be justified if it is the last moment of time left to us, but... if we still have time remaining, we must continue to grow toward Him. To do otherwise is to stagnate, which is to die.

The unnamed prophet [I Kings 13:1ff] sent out of Judah to Jeroboam the first king of the newly divided kingdom of Samaria was justified right up until he presumed the old prophet was telling him the truth instead of checking in with God about it.

Sorry John. On this I disagree with you. We are not called to keep on struggling all our life to be justified before Him.

What you are saying is in fact- that we can walk a good walk of faith, fight the good fight all our life...then through something sideswiping us on our last day on earth we can blow it and die without finishing the race and KEEPING the faith...
My dearest brother...if THAT is your God, Your Father...it sure is not mine!!

In the OT when an unclean person touched something clean, the clean was made unclean.

In the NT the Clean touching the unclean makes the unclean clean.

My trust and faith is in My God, not in how well I can maintain my own walk...I walk in His footsteps and when I slip from the path He is the Good Shepherd and pushes me out of the Vipers way.

What a roller coaster life you must lead..." He loves me, He loves me not"...
Which puts the focus all upon me!!


Just watch your last breath John xxxx

 

[Helen]

Then the next it goes to being sealed and unsealed every time the Spirit of God is quenched or grieved ...or His Spirit comes and goes dependent upon us. it becomes God can only do what man allows God to do. man can stop God at any moment from subduing all things unto Himself and God will be gone only to come back later when the punishment period is over. Sounds too much like human relationships. Not God’s. God allows satan to the fulfillment of His word, not satan allows God. Where does this uncertainty in His Word come from for whatsoever is born of God...He said the gates of Hell can not prevail against, nor man can overthrow a work of God. What is Faith in God if not that God finishes what He has begun?

Amen. God can, and must be trusted to the end...that is our faith.."when I can't, He can!! " THAT is our solid faith.

Ive had six week of this being tested. Pain, darkness, confusion, on why my prayers and others prayers don't seem to be answered.
Plus not being able to 'feel' the presence of God because of the continual headaches....yet in all that...firm faith that if I took my last breath I would be welcomed with His opened arms!

Nowhere, no how, are we saved one moment and unsaved the next.
Even the Prodigal son in the pigpen , though he stank of pig, he was none the less still his Fathers son...and the Father , every day stood looking down the road..knowing he would return - because there was no where else to go but Fathers Arms. ♥︎

 

[GTW27]

struggle so much here. You’ll say things so strong and grounded in God. Then the next it goes to being sealed and unsealed every time the Spirit of God is quenched or grieved ...or His Spirit comes and goes dependent upon us. it becomes God can only do what man allows God to do. man can stop God at any moment from subduing all things unto Himself and God will be gone only to come back later when the punishment period is over. Sounds too much like human relationships. Not God’s. God allows satan to the fulfillment of His word, not satan allows God. Where does this uncertainty in His Word come from for whatsoever is born of God...He said the gates of Hell can not prevail against, nor man can overthrow a work of God. What is Faith in God if not that God finishes what He has begun?

One of the tricks(devices) of the enemy is to change times and seasons. He likes to take us back to before the cross.(It is finished). In the old, the anointing would come and go. That is why it was said,"The word of The Lord came to me on". Today, the anointing (The Holy Spirit) once He has entered in, if He has entered in, will never, ever, leave us. This He has promised. He will finished the work He started in us. Quenching The Holy Spirit does not break that which is unbreakable. The Lord is a perfect gentleman who waits with a perfect love, and perfect patience, when we mess up. It is actually His love, in us, that brings us to our knees to repent. It is this love in us that causes us to wash the feet of others. Now I will share a thing from my past to show how the enemy differs. When he was here, in a possessed man, he demanded that I wash his feet. He demanded that i serve him.And yet The Lord has said, "No longer do I call you servants, but friends, for a servant does not know what his master is doing" It is The Holy Spirit within us that is our Teacher and any voice that tries to change the times and seasons(Take us back before the cross) The Holy Spirit will correct and bring The Truth. The one coming in the near future will do this very thing and many will be fooled(deceived) if possible even the elect. But that is not possible for anything The Lord puts His hand to, He finishes. "It is finished."

 

[amadeus]

Sorry John. On this I disagree with you. We are not called to keep on struggling all our life to be justified before Him.

What you are saying is in fact- that we can walk a good walk of faith, fight the good fight all our life...then through something sideswiping us on our last day on earth we can blow it and die without finishing the race and KEEPING the faith...

Dear sister, God has better control on things than that. If we have been faithful all along the Way, God will also be faithful and will keep. If there is serious danger He will warn us. There will be no last minute side swipe costing everything unless we have become sleepy or slack or lazy or weary in our well doing. By now we should already be a sure-footed alert critter able to walk the narrowest of high mountain paths safely. Can a person really backslide? Yes, but this is not something that creeps up on someone who is and has been in very much love with God for a long time.

My dearest brother...if THAT is your God, Your Father...it sure is not mine!!

In the OT when an unclean person touched something clean, the clean was made unclean.

In the NT the Clean touching the unclean makes the unclean clean.

My trust and faith is in My God, not in how well I can maintain my own walk...I walk in His footsteps and when I slip from the path He is the Good Shepherd and pushes me out of the Vipers way.

What a roller coaster life you must lead..." He loves me, He loves me not"...
Which puts the focus all upon me!!

Many times over the years I have explained precisely where I was and what I believed on these very things.
I guess you didn't hear me, or you have forgotten.

Yes, we now are the Light of this world of men, but it is also possible for us to cover up our Light or even in worst case scenario to extinguish it. But this kind of thing does not occur behind closed doors for us. We are led by the Lord... or we are led by ourselves. [God or mammon]. If we are led by Him because we love Him, as opposed to out of fear of falling into a pit, we will not go astray. However creeping worldliness and similar such things exist all around us. If we are focused always on the Lord those things will never touch us. Usually people try to walk a line between God the things of the world which attract them. You see that I don't accuse you of that, but you presume apparently that my walk with God is so diluted by things around me that I could so easily get side swiped by some worldliness device.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." I Cor 10:13

Just watch your last breath John xxxx

No, sister, rather watch His face and none of these things will divert your attention.

 

[Helen]

Many times over the years I have explained precisely where I was and what I believed on these very things.
I guess you didn't hear me, or you have forgotten.

On that I can agree.
To me I hear you saying that we can be saved today, but may be unsaved tomorrow.

I can understand that if one is not a believer in the 'gifts and callings' and offices of leadership and responsibilities in the heavens ( as James and John did who requested to sit on His right and left hand) then I can understand your 'saved today, not saved tomorrow'.

If I doubt God's unfailing goodness in my last agonizing breath...then I may miss the high calling ( the mark Paul aimed at) but never miss a place in His kingdom.

But I agree, I've never understood your thinking on this subject.

Blessings...H

 

[WalterandDebbie]

The uncertainty is not in God or in His word, but in us. God knows about this uncertain in each of us and asks us bear with Him anyway: [by what? Faith!] The Way to always be certain in our uncertainty is to always be in love with Him and surrendered to Him. Any time we are on doubt on this kind of a question [loving and surrendering to Him] He is always available to help. We have only to ask. A good thing to remember is Matt 7:7 "Ask... seek... knock... opened" . These questions will NOT be amiss [as per James 4:3].

Having faith is God is simply going ahead and doing what He asks even when and if we do not understand all of these things. We need to love Him and surrender to Him while we only know Him and see Him in part [see I Cor 13:12]. People are led into delusions because they get so involved in others things, such as Bible study [this is not an evil thing, but it can be a distraction from loving God], that they leave love behind.

This is whole scenario is one great testing period for us, but it is always an open book test. Open book tests when I was in college were always on the surface more difficult than the other kind where the books were closed and only pencil, test paper and possibly doodle pads were visible on our desks. An open book test never a slam dunk if you have not been reading and studying along the way. Knowing that it is in the book and finding it in the book are two very different things, especially when the clock is ticking.

The above is a secular example but when we are speaking about God and the things of God we must add pray and worship... that is communication with God. All of the reading and studying of the Bible is absolutely worthless in the eyes of God with no communication. Yes, we must eat His flesh [read & study the Bible], but the flesh alone is dead and will remain dead in us. We must also drink His blood [pray, worship, communicate with God] wherein is the Life. The communication, the connection between us the Head [Jesus] is the Holy Spirit [the Blood... not red]

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53

Amen, and we thank you for your post, Love always, Walter and Debbie

 

[marks]

As it is written in James:

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works." James 2:17-18

Works as the proof of faith, as James speaks, or works as a supplement to faith toward salvation? Very different. Either He does it for your, or you do it for yourself. Do you see the distinction?

Much love!

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I have always wondered about that verse. Thank you for the explanation as it now makes sense to me. There is no half or part way with God...all or nothing IMHO. Now, maintaining that status of keeping open every inch of our hearts on a regular basis, can be difficult at times. But as Soldiers of The Cross...we march on, pick ourselves up and run that race!

Amen

 

[marks]

You read this verse very carefully yourself trying understand what it really says instead of presuming what it says based on what you thought or heard others say:

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Tim 2:15 [KJV]

Interestingly, "study", here in the KJV - which I love - is better translated be diligent. Be diligent to show yourself approved unto God, that unashamed workman straightly cutting the word of truth. Tentmaker language.

So the verse, when it says study, in our language, in the original it's not exactly that. Yet this is the thrust of the passage, as we are called to correcty separate one part from the other, I believe this speaks in a big way keeping the Old Covenant mentality out of the New Covenant.

Many read the passage, and the Holy Spirit illuminates. This is what the Holy Spirit illuminated to me, through the examination of the words writting.

I really do hang on God's every Word.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We seem to be told so often that we must have works to maintain salvation.
( Always using the book of James ! )

That starts the thought pattern and navel gazing/ " Have I got enough works to balance my faith." / " How much works is enough? " etc etc

The faith v works has been going around and around forever!!

"Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness."
Justified by faith.

Abraham offered Isaac ONCE. n

We ARE justified. YAY!!! ✟

Swimming to Hawaii! You may make it half-way, I may make it past the breakers, but ain't none of us beaching on Waikiki!

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

On that I can agree.
To me I hear you saying that we can be saved today, but may be unsaved tomorrow.

I can understand that if one is not a believer in the 'gifts and callings' and offices of leadership and responsibilities in the heavens ( as James and John did who requested to sit on His right and left hand) then I can understand your 'saved today, not saved tomorrow'.

If I doubt God's unfailing goodness in my last agonizing breath...then I may miss the high calling ( the mark Paul aimed at) but never miss a place in His kingdom.

But I agree, I've never understood your thinking on this subject.

Blessings...H

Well again dear sister, only God gives any increase that is worthwhile. I am glad you see back here posting more regularly.

 

[amadeus]

Works as the proof of faith, as James speaks, or works as a supplement to faith toward salvation? Very different. Either He does it for your, or you do it for yourself. Do you see the distinction?

Much love!

Carry on my friend. I see the distinction you make, but my own belief here is unchanged.

 

[marks]

Carry on my friend. I see the distinction you make, but my own belief here is unchanged.

I think we are clear with each other, and I truly appreciate your good will!

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Interestingly, "study", here in the KJV - which I love - is better translated be diligent. Be diligent to show yourself approved unto God, that unashamed workman who makes a straightly cutting the word of truth. Tentmaker language.

So the verse, when it says study, in our language, in the original it's not exactly that. Yet this is the thrust of the [passage, as we are called to correcty separate one part from the other, I believe this speaks in a big way keeping the Old Covenant mentality out of the New Covenant.

Many read the passage, and the Holy Spirit illuminates. This is what the Holy Spirit illuminated to me, through the examination of the words writting.

I really do hang on God's every Word.

Much love!

In Luther's version he uses words [Befleißig dich] meaning "Be diligent" instead of the KJV "study". In the Spanish Valera it says [Procura con diligencia] meaning "strive (or manage) with diligence" instead of "study". I'd say our understandings of the verse are quite similar.

 

[marks]

In Luther's version he uses words [Befleißig dich] meaning "Be diligent" instead of the KJV "study". In the Spanish Valera it says [Procura con diligencia] meaning "strive (or manage) with diligence" instead of "study". I'd say our understandings of the verse are quite similar.

Cool!

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Something has just become very clear to me, I hear many talk about overcoming they believe this is performed by them(their flesh).
This is not the case if we believe that our flesh is being tested, nothing could be further from the truth, our affliction is to show Christ in us alone that is the one who overcomes. To focus on ourselves is carnal to the point of self centered no one in the gospels overcame, it was not till Pentecost when the spirit fell upon them, then Christ in them overcomes.

 

[Waiting on him]

This is not a test of afflictions to prove me this is a test to prove Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The uncertainty is not in God or in His word, but in us. God knows about this uncertainty in each of us and asks us bear with Him anyway: [by what? Faith!] The Way to always be certain in our uncertainty is to always be in love with Him and surrendered to Him. Any time we are on doubt on this kind of a question [loving and surrendering to Him] He is always available to help. We have only to ask. A good thing to remember is Matt 7:7 "Ask... seek... knock... opened" . These questions will NOT be amiss [as per James 4:3].

Having faith in God is simply going ahead and doing what He asks even when and if we do not understand all of these things. We need to love Him and surrender to Him while we only know Him and see Him in part [see I Cor 13:12]. People are led into delusions because they get so involved in others things, such as Bible study [this is not an evil thing, but it can be a distraction from loving God], that they leave love behind.

This is whole scenario is one great testing period for us, but it is always an open book test. Open book tests when I was in college were always on the surface more difficult than the other kind where the books were closed and only pencil, test paper and possibly doodle pads were visible on our desks. An open book test was never a slam dunk if you have not been reading and studying along the way. Knowing that it is in the book and finding it in the book are two very different things, especially when the clock is ticking.

The above is a secular example but when we are speaking about God and the things of God we must add pray and worship... that is communication with God. All of the reading and studying of the Bible is absolutely worthless in the eyes of God with no communication. Yes, we must eat His flesh [read & study the Bible], but the flesh alone is dead and will remain dead in us. We must also drink His blood [pray, worship, communicate with God] wherein is the Life. The communication, the connection between us the Head [Jesus] is the Holy Spirit [the Blood... not red]

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53

Thank you for clarifying. For me it still remains if the uncertainty is not in God then there is no uncertainty, since it is not based off men’s uncertainty in give God the glory. His word often speaks of the manifestation of the Children of God and how that which is born of the Spirit is always born of the Spirit. And That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

Curious...what about the New Heaven and new earth in Isaiah 66:22
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Are the New Heavens and new earth dependent upon men to remain before God always. Could God back out on the New creation whenever good works are not in place as they should be or His Spirit is quenched? Can or does God remove the New creation of heaven and earth in unsealing and resealing the children born of it? Is there a chance men prevent and the New Heavens and new earth fail and come short of glory?

Not speaking of you or I ...but only of what the word says of whatsoever is born of God: the New creature in
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

And the New Heavens and new earth. Can see you point in what is not a new creature ...Christ is not there and when Christ is not there...they are manifest as none of His. ONLY speaking of where Christ is...that child of God is not forsaken by God. Believe my husband did bring up an interesting point that this is not about testing or proving men but about proving and the manifestation of the children of God (and Christ in them) who overcomes all things even the world and their faith which increase is of God. (2 Corinthians 10:15) If you believe those born of God ...His seed always before God as the New Heavens and new earth are always before God ...are sealed and unsealed then that uncertainty is of and in men and therefore not a new creature born of the New creation in Christ. Christ who is as certain as God and any born of His Spirit. To claim those manifest as the children of God at any point fail or come short in the removal of God’s Spirit from their keeping is to say 1)they are forsaken. 2)Christ does and did not overcome all things in whatsoever is born of Him. Which is to speak against Christ and the manifestation of all in and of Him endure til the end unto “Behold, all things have become New.”

Another to consider is the testing in the wilderness and how God wouldn't allow them in the promise land knowing they would mock His Name by their actions. Do you really believe God would give His Spirit and a new birth to be mocked in failure and coming up short of the cost? Again...only speaking of Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

“The Spirit of Christ” would not be given to failure and incompleteness and coming up short of the cost. Period. But yes, where there is no “the Spirit of Christ” there is uncertainty.

 

[Waiting on him]

Thank you for clarifying. For me it still remains if the uncertainty is not in God then there is no uncertainty, since it is not based off men’s uncertainty in give God the glory. His word often speaks of the manifestation of the Children of God and how that which is born of the Spirit is always born of the Spirit. And That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

Curious...what about the New Heaven and new earth in Isaiah 66:22
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Are the New Heavens and new earth dependent upon men to remain before God always. Could God back out on the New creation whenever good works are not in place as they should be or His Spirit is quenched? Can or does God remove the New creation of heaven and earth in unsealing and resealing the children born of it? Is there a chance men prevent and the New Heavens and new earth fail and come short of glory?

Not speaking of you or I ...but only of what the word says of whatsoever is born of God: the New creature in
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

And the New Heavens and new earth. Can see you point in what is not a new creature ...Christ is not there and when Christ is not there...they are manifest as none of His. ONLY speaking of where Christ is...that child of God is not forsaken by God. Believe my husband did bring up an interesting point that this is not about testing or proving men but about proving and the manifestation of the children of God (and Christ in them) who overcomes all things even the world and their faith which increase is of God. (2 Corinthians 10:15) If you believe those born of God ...His seed always before God as the New Heavens and new earth are always before God ...are sealed and unsealed then that uncertainty is of and in men and therefore not a new creature born of the New creation in Christ. Christ who is as certain as God and any born of His Spirit. To claim those manifest as the children of God at any point fail or come short in the removal of God’s Spirit from their keeping is to say 1)they are forsaken. 2)Christ does and did not overcome all things in whatsoever is born of Him. Which is to speak against Christ and the manifestation of all in and of Him endure til the end unto “Behold, all things have become New.”

Another to consider is the testing in the wilderness and how God wouldn't allow them in the promise land knowing they would mock His Name by their actions. Do you really believe God would give His Spirit and a new birth to be mocked in failure and coming up short of the cost? Again...only speaking of Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

“The Spirit of Christ” would not be given to failure and incompleteness and coming up short of the cost. Period. But yes, where there is no “the Spirit of Christ” there is uncertainty.

He has given us a sound mind, haven’t had time to look up the word sound in my concordance, I have a hunch that is has to do with something solid, and faith in what I can do is flaky. Faith in what Christ can do in me is solid, sound.