MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

[Marty fox]

There are a number of Amils posting in this thread. Name which Amil or Amils that agree with you about this. Would like to hear their reasoning as to why they would agree despite that Rev 20:7 makes it crystal clear that the thousand years expire once they have served their purpose. Then what follows is not the GWTJ but is satan's little season. The thousand years, then satan's little season, then the GWTJ. And not---the thousand years, then the GWTJ, like you would have us believe.

The thousand years, then satan's little season, then the GWTJ---none of these run in parallel with one another.

I don't base my view on what other amils think, I base my view on what the bible says, but as to if other amils agree with me or not, I have no idea maybe some do and some don't.

Does Jesus reign because satan is bound or does Jesus reign because He is God?

Let's put it another way, is satan bound because Jesus reigns over him?

Revelation chapter 20 shows a reigning and a binding not a reigning because of a binding.

Does Jesus still reign after satan is released? or does Jesus stop reigning because satan is released?

Can satan stop Jesus from reigning?

Think about that and answer each one.

 

[rwb]

In Daniel 7 He does not come in power and glory. He is given power and glory only after He has arrived first. It is in Matthew 24:30 that He comes in power and glory. Therefore, Daniel 7 involves a bodily ascension. Matthew 24:30 involves a bodily return. Not even remotely the same era of time in both passages.

Acts 1:9-11 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Daniel 7:13-15 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

The Son of man is not here depicted as coming from heaven to earth but coming from the earth to heaven after He arose from the grave, just as described in the book of Acts. He already received power and glory, being given a dominion and a Kingdom that is everlasting and shall never pass away, nor be destroyed. Christ was given the Kingdom of God because He was faithful unto death, giving His life a ransom for many.

 

[Scott Downey]

Acts 1:9-11 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Daniel 7:13-15 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

The Son of man is not here depicted as coming from heaven to earth but coming from the earth to heaven after He arose from the grave, just as described in the book of Acts. He already received power and glory, being given a dominion and a Kingdom that is everlasting and shall never pass away, nor be destroyed. Christ was given the Kingdom of God because He was faithful unto death, giving His life a ransom for many.

Even though the kingdom was His 'birthright'. HE earned it by His works, He was obedient to God the Father unto His own death.
Titus 2:13
looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ,

Bible Gateway passage: Philippians 2 - 21st Century King James Version

If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any tenderness and mercies, fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord and of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory, but in...

www.biblegateway.com

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,

7 but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.

8 And being found in the fashion of a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death—even the death of the cross.

9 Therefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name,

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in Heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,

11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[ewq1938]

Because as Revelation chapter 20 shows the thousand-year binding ends when satan is released and the thousand-year reign ends at the end of our world on the GWTJ day. There are two separate thousand years one the reigning and one the binding,

No, Rev 20 speaks of one thousand year period where satan is bopund and there is a reign over the nations (who were not killed in Rev 19 because they were not targeted)

Jesus doesn't reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God.

Strawman fallacy since no one thinks Jesus only reigns because satan is bound. The two things simply happen at the same time.

 

[rwb]

Even though the kingdom was His 'birthright'. HE earned it by His works.
Titus 2:13
looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ,

Bible Gateway passage: Philippians 2 - 21st Century King James Version

If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any tenderness and mercies, fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord and of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory, but in...

www.biblegateway.com

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,

7 but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.

8 And being found in the fashion of a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death—even the death of the cross.

9 Therefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name,

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in Heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,

11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Exactly, I agree! Being faithful unto death, after His resurrection He ascended to heaven where He received a Kingdom that shall never end nor be destroyed. The Kingdom He was given when He ascended to heaven is not physical but the spiritual Kingdom of God that every man who has been, is and shall be born again spiritually enter when we/they are born again.

 

[Davidpt]

Acts 1:9-11 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Daniel 7:13-15 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

The Son of man is not here depicted as coming from heaven to earth but coming from the earth to heaven after He arose from the grave, just as described in the book of Acts. He already received power and glory, being given a dominion and a Kingdom that is everlasting and shall never pass away, nor be destroyed. Christ was given the Kingdom of God because He was faithful unto death, giving His life a ransom for many.

Are you echoing what I already agree with and said? Or are you somehow having a dispute with what I said? I clearly said Daniel 7:13-15 involves a bodily ascension. Which then means this scenario---Christ is intially bodily on the earth, then is seen bodily leaving the earth in Acts 1, and then is seen bodily entering heaven in Daniel 7:13-15. But in Matthew 24:30, it is the exact opposite. It has Him bodily coming in power and great glory to the earth below after having bodily left heaven above. So where did He initially receive this power and great glory? For one, Daniel 7:13-15, in light of Acts 1, explains the where, when, and how.

 

[Marty fox]

No, Rev 20 speaks of one thousand year period where satan is bopund and there is a reign over the nations (who were not killed in Rev 19 because they were not targeted)




Strawman fallacy since no one thinks Jesus only reigns because satan is bound. The two things simply happen at the same time.

Then if no one thinks that Jesus only reigns because satan is bound then everyone must agree that Jesus still reigns after satan is released.

 

[Davidpt]

Then if no one thinks that Jesus only reigns because satan is bound then everyone must agree that Jesus still reigns after satan is released.

No one is arguing Christ quits reigning. What we are arguing is that saints quit reigning with Him a thousand years because that era of time would be in the past when satan's little season begins. To make sense of this, maybe Amil is the better solution? But only if it means that those alive in the final days of the millennium are then tested during satan's little season.

And the way to test them fairly is to sever them from the thousand year reign. Then the beast and it's 42 month reign enters the picture, thus a time of testing for those that were saved during the final days of the millennium and are still physically alive when satan's littel season begin. I realize this does not match Amil's view of these things, nor am I saying it does. I'm only pointing out that maybe Amil would be the better solution if it was a scenario such as what I submitted above. Which could mean satan's little season = the great falling away mentioned in 2 Thess 2:3.

But since I'm Premil not Amil, I guess it doesn't matter then. But even so, in the event Amil is indeed the correct position, it at least has to make logical sense out of some of these things. And the way Amil is typically presented, I don't see it making sense out of some of these things.