MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

[IndianaRob]

And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

What do these words mean to you?

The words being sealed doesn’t mean the words are going to change when they become unsealed.

Daniel 12:1-2 say the same thing sealed that they do unsealed. One resurrection with two groups being raised.

Besides that, Daniel was sealed until the time of the end of earthly Jerusalem which was accomplished at the resurrection.

 

[David in NJ]

All it tells me is don't make up stories...

Agree
And so that understand you fully on this.........
Question: Are you alluding/suggesting that i am "making up stories"?
If, Yes, then what would the "made-up' story be?

when you won't know, you just going to be proven wrong, when the end does come, about something.

Did the LORD elaborate on Daniel chapter 12, for us to know???

 

[David in NJ]

The words being sealed doesn’t mean the words are going to change when they become unsealed.

Daniel 12:1-2 say the same thing sealed that they do unsealed. One resurrection with two groups being raised.

Did God change His words of Daniel chapter 12 by adding more clarity???

Besides that, Daniel was sealed until the time of the end of earthly Jerusalem which was accomplished at the resurrection.

The words were sealed until the time when the LORD revealed Daniel 12 to us = which is beyond the Resurrection of JESUS.

 

[IndianaRob]

I agree that two resurrections are mentioned in Scripture. The first resurrection of Rev 20 speaks of the resurrection of Christ we must have part in to overcome the second death (damnation). Rev 20 also speaks of the resurrection of the dead. That is of ALL without exception who have physically died throughout time. The dead, both those who have done good and those who have done evil shall be resurrected from the graves in the same hour that is coming. They will be resurrected to life everlasting or resurrected to damnation.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Check Daniel 12. That is the clearest and easiest to understand resurrection passage in the Bible. And yes that happened with the resurrection of Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

When does/did the time of the end begin for this earth?

Known to God from eternity are all His works. - Acts 15:8

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

ALL Timeframes of world History belong to HIS-Story.

For us, HIS-Story Began in Genesis/Creation where the Gospel was First Preached.

For us, HIS-Story Began when the FATHER Called us to CHRIST = Galatians 1:16 - Ephesians 2:1

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

The "Time of Beginning of the END for Satan and his angels" = "On the 3rd Day CHRIST Rose from the Dead"

 

[rwb]

Is that one resurrection event the same resurrection event in 1 Thess 4:16-17

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Yes, it is! However, in this particular passage of Scripture Paul speaks only of the "dead in Christ"! Explaining that in the same hour that is coming they (dead in Christ) shall be resurrected before the "rest of the dead", those resurrected to damnation shall be resurrected.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

After the thousand years expires the order of resurrection is first physically resurrected are those who lived and reigned with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years. After they have been resurrected immortal, then the "rest of the dead", or those who never lived and reigned with Christ during the symbolic time given this earth wherein man must be saved.

The physical unsaved dead shall be resurrected bodily for judgment. But those who have lived and reigned with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years are bodily resurrected immortal and incorruptible to meet the Lord in the air until the wrath of God upon this whole earth shall be finished.

Revelation 20:4-5 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:7 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Scott Downey]

Agree
And so that understand you fully on this.........
Question: Are you alluding/suggesting that i am "making up stories"?
If, Yes, then what would the "made-up' story be?



Did the LORD elaborate on Daniel chapter 12, for us to know???

Your understanding of that 1000 year reign is made up stories. Does not agree with Christ or the apostles doctrines

 

[David in NJ]

Your understanding of that 1000 year reign is made up stories. Does not agree with Christ or the apostles doctrines

That is dangerous ground to be standing on.

When men with their man-made doctrines seek to ignore, reject or override "Thus Saith the LORD/Scripture"

Thus Saith the LORD GOD: "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[IndianaRob]

Did God change His words of Daniel chapter 12 by adding more clarity???



The words were sealed until the time when the LORD revealed Daniel 12 to us = which is beyond the Resurrection of JESUS.

Nothing changed in Daniel when it became unsealed. Regardless of whether you believe Daniel was unsealed at the cross or not, the description of the resurrection in Daniel 12 is what is and unsealing the book isn’t going to change what it is.

 

[IndianaRob]

When does/did the time of the end begin for this earth?

There is no mention of the end of the earth in the verse. The end is the end of the 70 weeks, the end of earthly Jerusalem and the beginning of heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[David in NJ]

Nothing changed in Daniel when it became unsealed.

AGREE = and i NEVER suggested as such!!!

Regardless of whether you believe Daniel was unsealed at the cross or not, the description of the resurrection in Daniel 12 is what is and unsealing the book isn’t going to change what it is.

AGREE

GOD's words do not change!

GOD calls to us to change our thinking so that it conforms to HIS words.

Daniel 12 is repeated by the LORD with more CLARITY in................................Do you know where?

 

[Scott Downey]

That is dangerous ground to be standing on.

When men with their man-made doctrines seek to ignore, reject or override "Thus Saith the LORD/Scripture"

Thus Saith the LORD GOD: "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Go ahead and make it up as you go.

Lots of people are pointing out the symbolism is strong in Revelation

2 Thess 1 is hard solid doctrine, that refutes what you think Revelation says. and lots more scripture also says different that what you believe.

But you refuse all of that don't you.

 

[IndianaRob]

AGREE = and i NEVER suggested as such!!!



AGREE

GOD's words do not change!

GOD calls to us to change our thinking so that it conforms to HIS words.

Daniel 12 is repeated by the LORD with more CLARITY in................................Do you know where?

Yeah it’s repeated when it was fulfilled in Matthew.

Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,


Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Many People that have been saved have demonic tattoos.
( Mark of satan)

Of course a person can be saved after they "take the mark".
In rev, during the time of fierce judgement it says something to the effect, "...and still they would not repent"....indicating God would honor that and save them.

 

[Scott Downey]

Many People that have been saved have demonic tattoos.
( Mark of satan)

Of course a person can be saved after they "take the mark".
In rev, during the time of fierce judgement it says something to the effect, "...and still they would not repent"....indicating God would honor that and save them.

They are deceived and due to that refuse to repent and give God glory

The deception here is strong, God gave them over. Meaning they can not escape what is happening, as only God can grant repentance.
God sends them strong delusion to believe the lie. God has locked them into the coming judgment.

Even so, today a lot of people refuse God, and the love of the truth, Jesus tells us that in John 3.

2 Thess 2
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Scott Downey]

John 3, Jesus says this
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

 

[rwb]

Check Daniel 12. That is the clearest and easiest to understand resurrection passage in the Bible. And yes that happened with the resurrection of Christ.

Daniel is NOT writing of the resurrection of the dead that is coming when ALL (both good and bad) shall be bodily resurrected either to life or condemnation. These words from Daniel are pointing to what shall come to pass during this time likened here to "a time of trouble" and "great tribulation" Christ warns His disciples shall come as the gospel of the Kingdom of God is proclaimed and the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven completed. (see Mt 27:52)

Daniel doesn't say those who have died will be resurrected physically from the grave. He writes only that many who lived and died in faith before Christ came to earth a man would be awakened (spiritually), and they were. They are the living souls (spirits of just men) that Christ took with Him when He ascended to heaven. These are not yet bodily resurrected. That shall come on the last day when the last/seventh trumpet sounds. They were awakened by the sealing of the Holy Spirit (Rev 7), who had not yet been sent to make spiritually alive all who believe.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The many that have died before the advent of Christ come to earth a man did awake to everlasting life just as Daniel writes.

Daniel 12:1 (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Daniel 12:2 (KJV) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

At the beginning of the time of trouble/great tribulation with the first advent of Christ coming to make atonement for sin and defeat death, the faithful saints of Old were spiritually awakened from the dead to everlasting life. The some that Daniel speaks of shall also be awakened and bodily resurrected in an hour coming to shame and everlasting contempt as they are bodily called to stand before the great white throne judgment of God to give account of their lives according to all that is found written in the books and the book of life.

 

[rwb]

Known to God from eternity are all His works. - Acts 15:8

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

ALL Timeframes of world History belong to HIS-Story.

For us, HIS-Story Began in Genesis/Creation where the Gospel was First Preached.

For us, HIS-Story Began when the FATHER Called us to CHRIST = Galatians 1:16 - Ephesians 2:1

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

The "Time of Beginning of the END for Satan and his angels" = "On the 3rd Day CHRIST Rose from the Dead"

The time of the end or end times, these last days began with the first advent of Christ. It is the time symbolized a thousand years that shall not be finished until the last/seventh trumpet begins to sound.

 

[David in NJ]

Go ahead and make it up as you go.

Lots of people are pointing out the symbolism is strong in Revelation

2 Thess 1 is hard solid doctrine, that refutes what you think Revelation says. and lots more scripture also says different that what you believe.

But you refuse all of that don't you.

Scott, please refrain from belittling others in what you are contesting until you have verification from the LORD.

EXAMPLE: You are contesting & judging the clear words of CHRIST and the LITERAL First Resurrection and the LITERAL 1,000 years that GOD has already Validated in Genesis and then again in Revelation.

Genesis and Revelation are the Authority on the 1,000 Years = no one else!!!

This is why the LORD is very SERIOUS when HE says = Revelation 22:18

IMPORTANT: i am not accusing you but reminding ALL of us of Proverbs 30:5-6 and Rev 22:18 = GOOD for us to walk in

 

[David in NJ]

The time of the end or end times, these last days began with the first advent of Christ.

Just as i stated

It is the time symbolized a thousand years that shall not be finished until the last/seventh trumpet begins to sound.

Not found in Scripture