MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

[JimKnox]

But let's don't address any Premil rebuttal, though. If I 'm reading Daniel 7 wrong then someone needs to prove it to me per the very same texts I'm using to determine what I'm concluding to begin with. If I can take the time to type out how I reason through those verses, the fact I'm a slow typer to begin with, surely someone else can take the time, especially someone that is not handicapped by slow typing, to reason through the very same verses I used then show why they are reading them correctly but I'm not.

Methinks that "someone" will not respond in kind.
Signed;
An Observer.

 

[WPM]

Your amil position does not believe Holy Writ.
You spiritualize that which destroys your nonsense. You force Scripture through your own ungodly filter.
You are just as obstinate and wicked as the ancient Pharisees.
You only argument against literalism is "nuh uh"!

I am done talking to you. You are out of control!

 

[WPM]

But let's don't address any Premil rebuttal, though. If I 'm reading Daniel 7 wrong then someone needs to prove it to me per the very same texts I'm using to determine what I'm concluding to begin with. If I can take the time to type out how I reason through those verses, the fact I'm a slow typer to begin with, surely someone else can take the time, especially someone that is not handicapped by slow typing, to reason through the very same verses I used then show why they are reading them correctly but I'm not.

I only used a small number of verses in Daniel 7 in order to try and make my points. Mainly verses 9-12, 21-22, 27. If I'm reading those wrong then go through all of them and demonstrate the correct way to read them. And then demonstrate how any of them relate to Revelation 20:4-6 or doesn't relate to them. @rwb already agrees verse 22 relates to Revelation 20:4-6.

I addressed this in #850 and you avoided it. I cannot do anything more than that.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Taking the mark equals worship... so yes they will still burn in hell

It's just like the greasy gracers to try and get around what God's Word says to take the mark.

They really trying to please their daddy who is the devil

Only those following the devil would not believe what God says in His Word.

Take MOTB = goto LOF is also what I understand.
Do you believe an Eph 1:13 HS sealed believer who takes the MOTB will go to the LOF ?

 

[WPM]

Take MOTB = goto LOF is also what I understand.
Do you believe an Eph 1:13 HS sealed believer who takes the MOTB will go to the LOF ?

No. The elect will not be deceived.

 

[PeterAndroz]

No. The elect will not be deceived.

Which verses teach that a Eph 1:13 SEALED believe will not be deceived ?
Verses please :)

 

[WPM]

Taking the mark equals worship... so yes they will still burn in hell

It's just like the greasy gracers to try and get around what God's Word says to take the mark.

They really trying to please their daddy who is the devil

Only those following the devil would not believe what God says in His Word.

1. You have no understanding of the heart of God
2. You have no understanding of the Word of God.
3. You have no understanding of salvation.
4. You have no understanding of the mark of the beast.

Your "He loves me, He loves me not" is what is of the devil. When all is said and done: extreme Arminianists do not have a correct revelation of the character of man and the character of God. If they did: they would definitely not trust themselves and they would have a total trust in God.

 

[WPM]

Which verses teach that a Eph 1:13 SEALED believe will not be deceived ?
Verses please :)

Jesus said in Matthew 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

It is not possible to deceive the true elect. They know the Shepherd's voice and follow Him.

Ephesians 1:11-14 declares, “In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

The Holy Spirit is here described as “that holy Spirit of promise.”

The word “earnest” here actually relates to a security down payment. It is taken from the Greek word arrhabon, which is from a Hebrew origin [meaning a pledge, i.e. It is a pledge in advance as security for the rest.

You have heard of earnest money. It is a portion of something, given or done in advance as a promise of the remainder. I like assurance. I like security. I like the promises of God. I choose to receive them, how about you?

The Holy Ghost, that the Christian possesses, is an assurance in advance as security for the rest.

How long is this seal in place?

You have been “sealed with that holy Spirit of promise” as security of your future “inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.”

Ephesians 4:30 says, “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

How long is this seal in place?

You have been “sealed” as security of your future “unto the day of redemption.”

We are sealed until the day of redemption. If people want to think they are not that is fine. But I accept the Word.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Jesus said in Matthew 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

It is not possible to deceive the true elect. They know the Shepherd's voice and follow Him.

Ephesians 1:11-14 declares, “In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

The Holy Spirit is here described as “that holy Spirit of promise.”

The word “earnest” here actually relates to a security down payment. It is taken from the Greek word arrhabon, which is from a Hebrew origin [meaning a pledge, i.e. It is a pledge in advance as security for the rest.

You have heard of earnest money. It is a portion of something, given or done in advance as a promise of the remainder. I like assurance. I like security. I like the promises of God. I choose to receive them, how about you?

The Holy Ghost, that the Christian possesses, is an assurance in advance as security for the rest.

How long is this seal in place?

You have been “sealed with that holy Spirit of promise” as security of your future “inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.”

Ephesians 4:30 says, “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

How long is this seal in place?

You have been “sealed” as security of your future “unto the day of redemption.”

We are sealed until the day of redemption. If people want to think they are not that is fine. But I accept the Word.

ONLY Christ Gal 1:11-12 taught Paul the Gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4
And that Gospel teaches what is required to be saved and Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed
And we ALL in some way Eph 4:30 grieve the HS when we sin etc which we ALL do.
Apart from hear, trust, believe the Gospel where does Paul teach that a Eph 1:13 SEALED believer can become UNsealed ?
Paul verses please :)

 

[Marty fox]

Take MOTB = goto LOF is also what I understand.
Do you believe an Eph 1:13 HS sealed believer who takes the MOTB will go to the LOF ?

No saved person would ever take the mark.

We are save by grace through repentance, trust in Jesus.

It seams in your view if a Christian sins right before they die they would perish. In that case it would be based by what we Christians do and not what Jesus did.

 

[WPM]

No saved person would ever take the mark.

We are save by grace through repentance, trust in Jesus.

It seams in your view if a Christian sins right before they die they would perish. In that case it would be based by what we Christians do and not what Jesus did.

LOL. I just showed you!

 

[PeterAndroz]

No saved person would ever take the mark.

We are save by grace through repentance, trust in Jesus.

It seams in your view if a Christian sins right before they die they would perish. In that case it would be based by what we Christians do and not what Jesus did.

""It seams in your view if a Christian sins right before they die they would perish...""
Not my view at all.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 teaches that a believer IS saved, IS sealed by hearing, trusting, believing the Gospel
I don't see anywhere in the teachings of Paul that teach anything else is required to be & remain saved.
..
"""We are save by grace through repentance, trust in Jesus.""
According to Paul, repentance of what ?

""No saved person would ever take the mark.""
No Eph 1:13 sealed believer will be around come the MOTB
They will have been taken before then - 1 Thess 4:17 (caught up, rapiemure, harpazo)
...

 

[WPM]

""No saved person would ever take the mark.""
No Eph 1:13 sealed believer will be around come the MOTB
They will have been taken before then - 1 Thess 4:17 (caught up, rapiemure, harpazo)
...

Where does it say that the wicked will be left for years after that in 1 Thess 4? It is not there!

 

[ewq1938]

Take MOTB = goto LOF is also what I understand.

How about this:

Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Be fearful = go to LOF

Commit murder = go to LOF

Tell a lie = go to LOF

Agree?

 

[PeterAndroz]

Where does it say that the wicked will be left for years after that in 1 Thess 4? It is not there!

Do you believe the WICKED are included in the highlighted words
.
1 Thess 4:
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[PeterAndroz]

How about this:

Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Be fearful = go to LOF

Commit murder = go to LOF

Tell a lie = go to LOF

Agree?

""and all liars""
Looks like you & I are going to the LOF since we both have lied at some time in our life and if you've ever lied you are a liar.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 won't save us.
Agree ? :)

 

[Scott Downey]

""and all liars""
Looks like you & I are going to the LOF since we both have lied at some time in our life and if you've ever lied you are a liar.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 won't save us.
Agree ? :)

Do not worry, God finishes the good work He starts in us

1 John 5
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and every one that loveth Him that begot, loveth Him also that is begotten by Him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments.

3 For this is the love of God: that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not grievous.

4 For whosoever is born of God overcometh the world. And this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is He that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater, for this is the witness of God which He hath testified of His Son.

10 He that believeth in the Son of God hath the witness in himself; he that believeth not God hath made Him a liar, because he believeth not the record that God gave of His Son.

11 And this is the record: that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son hath not life.

13 These things I have written unto you that believe in the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe in the name of the Son of God.

14 And this is the confidence that we have in Him: that if we ask anything according to His will, He heareth us.

15 And if we know that He hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of Him.