Mother of James?

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Marymog

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o_O
Many books have already been written on the subject Mary by people called to write them. But perhaps they don't sell them in Catholic bookshops.

As for the timing of the birth of the Catholic church and all its teachings it was Constantine a Roman emperor who ordained that believers should stop meeting in homes as they had been doing up till then, and meet in designated buildings which later became known as churches. I have been reading about it.
Your reading the wrong history books:

Dura-Europos Church
Megiddo Church
Aqaba Church
Saint Georgeous Church
Monastery of Saint Thaddeus
Etc etc


How can he tell people to meet in churches if none....according to your theory.....had been built yet?o_O
 

Marymog

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Any one who is Christian but not Catholic is a protestant because they shun the Catholic teachings so in that way yes I am. But I do not belong to a denominational church with teaching, doctrines and traditions that go back hundreds of years. I belong to a group who broke away from that, a group made of Christians from all sorts of disciplines including Catholic. We strive to know the truth and live as the early Christians did. I don't do religion. I don't do traditions, trappings and rituals. I don't do church. I am church. And it is wonderful to be so free. I wish you could experience it.
You are church??? YOU are the fulfillment of Matthew 16:18, Matthew 18:17, 1 Timothy 3:15????
 

Marymog

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The passage from John 14 was meant for you and everyone else. But it doesn't mean what you are claiming it means. That's another one of your strawmen, and the way you claim we think it is interpreted is ludicrous...because it is wrong...but you also are wrong if you truly think that is what Protestants believe. The holy Spirit helps us as we read scripture. The more in tune with Him, the better we understand. The more we seek and hunger after truth, the more He reveals. And as Jesus said, the holy Spirit reveals Jesus.
Ummm....if that passage was meant for EVERYONE then why do all the men of the Reformation disagree with each other and you disagree with all of them?

can you see how your theory makes zero sense and why you are still hungry????
 

Marymog

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If you are a true Christian Mary then you too are a part of that Royal Priesthood. And I do not for one minute doubt your sincerity and that you seriously believe what you have said to me. But to be saved you need to know the Saviour. Not just know about him or his mother, you really need to know Him in a personal way by asking him into your life. I guarantee that if you do that you will notice a massive difference.
Sooo let me see if I have your theory correct. You have made it clear that anyone who disagrees with you are wrong in their interpretation of scripture. Logically that means no one can be part of the Royal Priesthood unless they agree with you and your 11 friends .

Fascinating
 

2nd Timothy Group

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Firstly, the words "brothers", or "brethren" do not only refer to biological siblings.

In Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four brethren of Jesus are James and Judas Thaddeus of Alphaeus (Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas Thaddeus of Alphaeus. In Mk. 15:40 two of the four brethren are mentioned: James (the Less) and Joseph, and their mother is named “Mary”. In Jn. 19:25, three women named “Mary” were present at the cross: the Blessed Virgin Mary, and Her sister, Mary of Cleophas (Alphaeus), and Mary Magdalene. Therefore, the Blessed Virgin's sister-in-law, Mary, was the wife of Alphaeus, St. Joseph's brother, and their sons were Simon, Joseph, and the apostles James (the Less, the "brother" of the Lord) and Judas Thaddeus: Jesus' cousins. The sisters of Jesus rand eferred to women disciples.

In Jn. 7:3 I know the brethren speaking to Jesus were two of His cousins: James and Judas Thaddeus of Alphaeus. Verse 5 refers to His other relatives, such as His Uncle Alphaeus, and other two cousins: Simon and Joseph. Since Jesus began His ministry they were angered, and embarrassed by what He was preaching and doing, and thus didn't believe in Him, though that eventually changed.

I would never agree with your Illumination on this matter, so I will just have to walk away from this discussion.

Have a good T-Day!
 

Marymog

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Any one who is Christian but not Catholic is a protestant because they shun the Catholic teachings so in that way yes I am. But I do not belong to a denominational church with teaching, doctrines and traditions that go back hundreds of years. I belong to a group who broke away from that, a group made of Christians from all sorts of disciplines including Catholic. We strive to know the truth and live as the early Christians did. I don't do religion. I don't do traditions, trappings and rituals. I don't do church. I am church. And it is wonderful to be so free. I wish you could experience it.
Traditionally Christians met in houses until there were enough Christians in a certain town to build a church to accommodate them for their ritual Sunday gathering.

But you hold to the tradition of meeting in a house on a ritualistic basis.....but you don’t do tradition or rituals????

Who wrote the Matthew Mark Luke and John letters?
 

2nd Timothy Group

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I'm not going to take the "bait." :)

I'd rather not argue. If I cannot have a reasonable conversation with someone, I'd rather handle it as did Paul handle Timothy in 2nd Timothy, Paul's final letter.

Happy Thanksgiving, Soul! I wish you all Blessings in the Heavenly Realms!
 

BreadOfLife

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I'm no expert, but isn't adelphos (Greek) a masculine noun? From ἄλφα (G1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)
Why is it that when somebody tries to explain this to you, then - YOU repeatedly respond with:
"I would never agree with your Illumination on this matter, so I will just have to walk away from this discussion."

If you don't want the answer - then don't ask the question.

This has been explained ad nauseam on this thread - for those who have bothered to read the posts.
Here's a recap . . .
The Greek word “Adelphos” is used for MANY other things such as cousin, uncle, step-brother, half-brother, friend, neighbor, fellow Believer, etc.

Acts 1:15 talks about "120 SDELPHOI" gathered together to choose a successor for Judas. Did they ALL come from the SAME mother? NO, because the 12 Apostles are among them and we KNOW they weren't ALL siblings.

Did Mary have other children after Jesus? The Bible does not support this idea. Let’s see what the Scriptures say about the use of the word, “until”.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us:
Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Moses was buried by God in the valley of Moab after his death. Deut. 34:6 explicitly states:
And he buried him in the valley of the land of Moab over against Phogor: and no man hath known of his sepulchre UNTIL this present day.
Sooooo – did they find his grave after this??

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44):
For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool?
The problem here is that the anti-Catholic attempts to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.

As to your FIRST point above in RED - Biblical statistics are again onh the Catholic side.
As I already sated - "Adelphos" is applied to brother of same parents, half-brother (same father), uncle, cousin, step-sibling, kinsfolk, same tribe, fellow believer and even a fellow countryman.

Regarding the “named brethren” of Jesus – they are from another Mary, as the Bible tells us.
We see this woman at the Crucifixion standing near the cross, alongside Mary (Mother of Jesus), Mary Magdalene and Salome, wife of Zebedee.

This “other Mary” is called the “SISTER” (adelphe) of the Mother of Jesus. (Matt. 27:56, Mark 15:40, John 19:25). She is probably another relation and NOT a uterine sister because they have the SAME NAME. She is called the “wife of Clopas” (John 19:25).

Now – “Clopas” is a Greek name and can be rendered in Aramaic as “Alphaeus”. The Apostle, James the Less, who is named as the SON of this “other” Mary is ALSO the son of Alphaeus/Clopas (Luke 6:15), along with Joses (Joseph).

So, there you have it:
Mary, the “Sister/relation (Adelphe)” of the Mother of Jesus is the mother of James and Joses, et al.

These are the statistics of the use of Adelphos(oi) in all of its variations in the New Testament:
There are 244 instances are instances where the word “Adelphos” and all of its variations are used in the NT.
41 times (12%) are cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
47 instances (14%) are cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
256 instances (74%) are cases where "Adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does not refer to a family sibling.


So - you can whine ALL you want about the "Adelphoi" of Jesus - but the not only does the Bible NEVER state that they are uterine siblings or children of Mary - it pretty much GUARANTEES that they are NOT.

Now - I FULLY expect you to end the conversation with ME as well . . .
 

2nd Timothy Group

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Why is it that when somebody tries to explain this to you, then - YOU repeatedly respond with:
"I would never agree with your Illumination on this matter, so I will just have to walk away from this discussion."

If you don't want the answer - then don't ask the question.

This has been explained ad nauseam on this thread - for those who have bothered to read the posts.
Here's a recap . . .
The Greek word “Adelphos” is used for MANY other things such as cousin, uncle, step-brother, half-brother, friend, neighbor, fellow Believer, etc.

Acts 1:15 talks about "120 SDELPHOI" gathered together to choose a successor for Judas. Did they ALL come from the SAME mother? NO, because the 12 Apostles are among them and we KNOW they weren't ALL siblings.

Did Mary have other children after Jesus? The Bible does not support this idea. Let’s see what the Scriptures say about the use of the word, “until”.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us:
Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Moses was buried by God in the valley of Moab after his death. Deut. 34:6 explicitly states:
And he buried him in the valley of the land of Moab over against Phogor: and no man hath known of his sepulchre UNTIL this present day.
Sooooo – did they find his grave after this??

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44):
For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool?
The problem here is that the anti-Catholic attempts to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.

As to your FIRST point above in RED - Biblical statistics are again onh the Catholic side.
As I already sated - "Adelphos" is applied to brother of same parents, half-brother (same father), uncle, cousin, step-sibling, kinsfolk, same tribe, fellow believer and even a fellow countryman.

Regarding the “named brethren” of Jesus – they are from another Mary, as the Bible tells us.
We see this woman at the Crucifixion standing near the cross, alongside Mary (Mother of Jesus), Mary Magdalene and Salome, wife of Zebedee.

This “other Mary” is called the “SISTER” (adelphe) of the Mother of Jesus. (Matt. 27:56, Mark 15:40, John 19:25). She is probably another relation and NOT a uterine sister because they have the SAME NAME. She is called the “wife of Clopas” (John 19:25).

Now – “Clopas” is a Greek name and can be rendered in Aramaic as “Alphaeus”. The Apostle, James the Less, who is named as the SON of this “other” Mary is ALSO the son of Alphaeus/Clopas (Luke 6:15), along with Joses (Joseph).

So, there you have it:
Mary, the “Sister/relation (Adelphe)” of the Mother of Jesus is the mother of James and Joses, et al.

These are the statistics of the use of Adelphos(oi) in all of its variations in the New Testament:
There are 244 instances are instances where the word “Adelphos” and all of its variations are used in the NT.
41 times (12%) are cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
47 instances (14%) are cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
256 instances (74%) are cases where "Adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does not refer to a family sibling.


So - you can whine ALL you want about the "Adelphoi" of Jesus - but the not only does the Bible NEVER state that they are uterine siblings or children of Mary - it pretty much GUARANTEES that they are NOT.

Now - I FULLY expect you to end the conversation with ME as well . . .

I'm not interested in arguing with anyone because I am not controlled by the Mind of the Devil and His Sinful Nature. I do not belong to this World. I wish all good and Heavenly Blessings for you (and I am sincere in that.)

1 Corinthians 3:2-3 NLT - "I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren't ready for anything stronger. And you still aren't ready, 3 for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn't that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren't you living like people of the world?"
 

BreadOfLife

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I'm not interested in arguing with anyone because I am not controlled by the Mind of the Devil and His Sinful Nature. I do not belong to this World. I wish all good and Heavenly Blessings for you (and I am sincere in that.)

1 Corinthians 3:2-3 NLT - "I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren't ready for anything stronger. And you still aren't ready, 3 for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn't that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren't you living like people of the world?"
Then, why are you posting on a debate site?

This should be interesting . . .
 

Triumph1300

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Posted towards Pearl :You are church??? YOU are the fulfillment of Matthew 16:18, Matthew 18:17, 1 Timothy 3:15????

Pearl is correct
The "church" is NOT a building.
The "church" is the body of believers.

Buildings don't mean anything.

Most buildings, specially the old cathedrals, are built over the backs of poor people under
the dictatorship of royals and religious dictatorships.
 
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