Mother of Jesus?

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ReChoired

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This is the kind of asinine exchange we’ve had so far . . .

@ReChoired:
Duhhhh, Jesus is TWO people – God and man!
Strawman. Never said any such thing. When Romanists cannot address the material presented to them, they resort to such tactics as ad hominem and strawman, red herrings, and even going so far as to bear false witness (as just witnessed).
 

ReChoired

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Oh, we (true Seventh-day Adventists) have "no doubt" about what we believe and practice, that is for certain, for whatsoever is not of faith is sin, and sin is the transgression of the law, and the wages of sin is eternal (second) death.
 

ReChoired

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...@ReChoired:
Duhhhh, the Pope gives speeches in a funny looking building!
It's the shape of a serpent's head, external and internal (the solar panels even appear to be scales, deriving its power from the sun (even as Romanism is sun worship, just as your own avatar reveals about the round wafer, and is placed in the crescent moon monstrance, the sun and the moon, Baal-Hadad). Nothing "funny" about it.
 

Ziggy

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I think Jesus gave Mary the disciple that loved Jesus to Mary,
the same way God gave Eve Seth because Cain killed Abel.

Jhn 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Seth = "compensation"

don't know if this helps, but if Mary did have other children then what need for a compensation for the one she lost?

Just thinking..
HUGS
 

ReChoired

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Ark of the new covenant!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven!
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Sinless yes! Gen 3:15 I will put enmity between thee and the woman, none of satan’s works are found in her!
Already addressed the nine months here (did you even read it?) - Mother of Jesus?

As for instance, citing from it:

"... [1] It would teach that the Word of God was only to dwell in 'Mary', and only for 9 months, after which the Word of God was no longer in the womb of Mary, having come through the veil/curtain of flesh of the woman (Galatians 4:4; see flesh/veil in Hebrews 10:20). Thus the 'ark' (Mary as they say) was to no longer hold the 'Word of God', according to this bizarre theology, and the 'ark' was thus empty forever afterward. ...

... [2] It usurps the place of Jesus Christ as the True Temple (John 2:19; Exodus 25:8; Revelation 21:22), and His heart the True Ark, for in His heart is always the living eternal Law of his Father: ...

... [3] It denies that all mankind was to be a sanctuary for the indwelling of the living God, by the Holy Ghost, all were to be indwelt by the Word of God ...

... Thus the “ark” represents the Heart of God Himself, for out of the abundance of the Heart, the mouth of God speaketh (Matthew 12:34; Luke 6:45), and cometh forth the Word of God, Jesus - the Love of the Father's heart to us-ward. ...

... Therefore, is Mary unique in this, in being indwelt by Jesus? No, she was but one of many billions, from the beginning: ...

... The same “seed” (Genesis 3:15; Galatians 3:16; Revelation 12:17) was to be planted in all receptive hearts ..."
John and Charles Wesley (for Dances), both wrote in print, who the antiChrist is:

John Wesley (1703 - 1791) - The Methodist

"... In many respects, the Pope has an indisputable claim to those titles. He is, in an emphatical sense, the man of sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled, the son of perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers, destroyed innumerable souls, and will himself perish everlastingly. He it is that opposeth himself to the emperor, once his rightful sovereign; and that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped - Commanding angels, and putting kings under his feet, both of whom are called gods in scripture; claiming the highest power, the highest honour; suffering himself, not once only, to be styled God or vice-God. Indeed no less is implied in his ordinary title, "Most Holy Lord," or, "Most Holy Father." So that he sitteth - Enthroned. In the temple of God - Mentioned Rev. xi, 1. Declaring himself that he is God - Claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." (John Wesley, Explanatory Notes Upon The New Testament, p.216)

"...Under the term antichrist, or the spirit of antichrist, he includes all false teachers and enemies to the truth; yea, whatever doctrines or men are contrary to Christ. It seems to have been long after this that the name of antichrist was appropriated to that grand adversary of Christ, "the man of sin," 2Th 2:3 ..." (1 John 2:18)

"... to mean the Romish antichrist" (Daniel 7:24)
Now, see also (as you did not seem to read this either) - Mother of Jesus?

I cite again:

"... Christ Jesus is the True Temple (John 2:19; Exodus 25:8; Revelation 21:22)) and True Ark (Psalms 40:8-9), and the True David (Psalms 89:3; Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:24-25; Hosea 3:5).

If anything in such 'a type', Mary would then represent the lowly delivery vehicle, a new (virgin) cart drawn by oxen (a bumpy ride in travelling), as found in 2 Samuel 6:2-3,6; 1 Chronicles 13:7,9, but I doubt Roman Catholicism's theology would desire to acknowledge the truth of that or that the direction of travel is opposite (Baalah (Baale of Judah), Kirjathjearim unto the city of David) and (Nazareth in Galilee to a hill country, city of Juda).

Is Mary of the scripture, the only one to carry Christ within? No, for all believers are to experience the New Birth, Christ Jesus being born in them, for the mind is the earth and receptive soil, which is to receive the Seed of Light, in the midst of waters, in darkness; Let there be Light ..."

You see, Mary is not actually the Ark, she is just the 'new (virgin) cart', a rickety and bumpy ride. Jesus' body is the Ark, the vessel that contains the word (manna) which came down from Heaven, for out of the abundance of the Heart the mouth speaketh, and speaketh deals with the words which Jesus spake.
 
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ReChoired

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Who started the SDA church? And by what authority?
Revelation 10 - 14, Jesus Christ. Want to see from the sanctuary (Psalms 77:13)?

[1] Courtyard
[2] Holy Place
[3] Most Holy Place​

Three Phases - one continuous and contiguous Truth.

[1] God called Moses and the peoples Israel in the wilderness:

Act_7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:​

That was the "courtyard", wherein the "sacrifices" took place, up to the time of the Holy Place, at Calvary and later Pentecost:

[2] God then called the Apostles/Disciples:

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

No more sacrifices, the courtyard service was over:

Heb_10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,​

Jesus was no longer in the courtyard, but in the Holy Place:

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.​

[3] Then, the Holy Place Ministry was to pass into the Most Holy Place ministry, AD 1844 in the period of the 6th church into the 7th church (Daniel 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, 10:1-11, 14:6-12), 7th Day Adventists:


Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:​
 

Illuminator

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Revelation 10 - 14, Jesus Christ. Want to see from the sanctuary (Psalms 77:13)?

[1] Courtyard
[2] Holy Place
[3] Most Holy Place​

Three Phases - one continuous and contiguous Truth.

[1] God called Moses and the peoples Israel in the wilderness:

Act_7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:​

That was the "courtyard", wherein the "sacrifices" took place, up to the time of the Holy Place, at Calvary and later Pentecost:

[2] God then called the Apostles/Disciples:

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

No more sacrifices, the courtyard service was over:

Heb_10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,​

Jesus was no longer in the courtyard, but in the Holy Place:

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.​

[3] Then, the Holy Place Ministry was to pass into the Most Holy Place ministry, AD 1844 in the period of the 6th church into the 7th church (Daniel 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, 10:1-11, 14:6-12), 7th Day Adventists:


Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:​
Most people on this board are not deceived by your walls of SDA propaganda and abuse of Scripture; the smart ones just put you on ignore. Good bye.
 

theefaith

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Revelation 10 - 14, Jesus Christ. Want to see from the sanctuary (Psalms 77:13)?

[1] Courtyard
[2] Holy Place
[3] Most Holy Place​

Three Phases - one continuous and contiguous Truth.

[1] God called Moses and the peoples Israel in the wilderness:

Act_7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:​

That was the "courtyard", wherein the "sacrifices" took place, up to the time of the Holy Place, at Calvary and later Pentecost:

[2] God then called the Apostles/Disciples:

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

No more sacrifices, the courtyard service was over:

Heb_10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,​

Jesus was no longer in the courtyard, but in the Holy Place:

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.​

[3] Then, the Holy Place Ministry was to pass into the Most Holy Place ministry, AD 1844 in the period of the 6th church into the 7th church (Daniel 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, 10:1-11, 14:6-12), 7th Day Adventists:


Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:​
Eph 2:20 the one true church built on the apostles

Matt 16:18 on Peter the first pope and father
 

theefaith

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The church must be catholic, universal refering to the whole world! Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

and only Christ has authority to found the one holy catholic and apostolic church Matt 16:18 jn 10:16
 

ReChoired

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You seem to be a fair-minded person, so I'll give you the following Scriptural evidence about the use term "until" . . .

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us:
Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Moses was buried by God in the valley of Moab after his death. Deut. 34:6 explicitly states:
And he buried him in the valley of the land of Moab over against Phogor: and no man hath known of his sepulchre UNTIL this present day.
Sooooo – did they find his grave after this??

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44):
For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool? The problem here is the attempt to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.

The word, "Until" doesn't always determine a subsequent action or consequence. This is true for BOTH the Hebrew word, 'ad and the Greek term, heos. Matt. 1:25 simply states:
"...but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

It's sort of like the Biblical term "Firstborn". This word does NOT imply that a woman has other children.
In Jewish culture - it simply meant that this child opened the womb of the mother.
The Romish arguments are so silly and one-sided, ignoring the entire context, to focus upon a single word, irrespective of the whole.

Context:

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Mat 1:20 ButG1161 while heG846 thoughtG1760 on these things,G5023 behold,G2400 the angelG32 of the LordG2962 appearedG5316 unto himG846 inG2596 a dream,G3677 saying,G3004 Joseph,G2501 thou sonG5207 of David,G1138 fearG5399 notG3361 to takeG3880 unto thee MaryG3137 thyG4675 wife:G1135 forG1063 that which is conceivedG1080 inG1722 herG846 isG2076 ofG1537 the HolyG40 Ghost.G4151

Mat 1:24 ThenG1161 JosephG2501 being raisedG1326 fromG575 sleepG5258 didG4160 asG5613 theG3588 angelG32 of the LordG2962 had biddenG4367 him,G846 andG2532 tookG3880 unto him hisG848 wife:G1135

Mat 1:25 AndG2532 knewG1097 herG846 notG3756 tillG2193 she had brought forthG5088 herG848 firstbornG4416 son:G5207 andG2532 he calledG2564 hisG846 nameG3686 JESUS.G2424

Mat 1:20 ταυτα δε αυτου ενθυμηθεντος ιδου αγγελος κυριου κατ οναρ εφανη αυτω λεγων ιωσηφ υιος δαβιδ μη φοβηθης παραλαβειν μαριαμ την γυναικα σου το γαρ εν αυτη γεννηθεν εκ πνευματος εστιν αγιου

Mat 1:24 διεγερθεις δε ο ιωσηφ απο του υπνου εποιησεν ως προσεταξεν αυτω ο αγγελος κυριου και παρελαβεν την γυναικα αυτου

Mat 1:25 και ουκ εγινωσκεν αυτην εως ου ετεκεν τον υιον αυτης τον πρωτοτοκον και εκαλεσεν το ονομα αυτου ιησουν

Mat 1:20 ταυταG3778 D-APN δεG1161 CONJ αυτουG846 P-GSM ενθυμηθεντοςG1760 V-AOP-GSM ιδουG3708 V-2AAM-2S αγγελοςG32 N-NSM κυριουG2962 N-GSM κατG2596 PREP οναρG3677 N-OI εφανηG5316 V-2API-3S αυτωG846 P-DSM λεγωνG3004 V-PAP-NSM ιωσηφG2501 N-PRI υιοςG5207 N-NSM δαβιδG1138 N-PRI μηG3361 PRT-N φοβηθηςG5399 V-AOS-2S παραλαβεινG3880 V-2AAN μαριαμG3137 N-PRI τηνG3588 T-ASF γυναικαG1135 N-ASF σουG4771 P-2GS τοG3588 T-NSN γαρG1063 CONJ ενG1722 PREP αυτηG846 P-DSF γεννηθενG1080 V-APP-NSN εκG1537 PREP πνευματοςG4151 N-GSN εστινG1510 V-PAI-3S αγιουG40 A-GSN

Mat 1:24 διεγερθειςG1326 V-APP-NSM δεG1161 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM ιωσηφG2501 N-PRI αποG575 PREP τουG3588 T-GSM υπνουG5258 N-GSM εποιησενG4160 V-AAI-3S ωςG5613 ADV προσεταξενG4367 V-AAI-3S αυτωG846 P-DSM οG3588 T-NSM αγγελοςG32 N-NSM κυριουG2962 N-GSM καιG2532 CONJ παρελαβενG3880 V-2AAI-3S τηνG3588 T-ASF γυναικαG1135 N-ASF αυτουG846 P-GSM

Mat 1:25 καιG2532 CONJ ουκG3756 PRT-N εγινωσκενG1097 V-IAI-3S αυτηνG846 P-ASF εωςG2193 ADV ουG3739 R-GSM ετεκενG5088 V-2AAI-3S τονG3588 T-ASM υιονG5207 N-ASM αυτηςG846 P-GSF τονG3588 T-ASM πρωτοτοκονG4416 A-ASM-S καιG2532 CONJ εκαλεσενG2564 V-AAI-3S τοG3588 T-ASN ονομαG3686 N-ASN αυτουG846 P-GSM ιησουνG2424 N-ASM​

Notice the words "took unto him". I can come back to that later.

Notice the words "thy [Joseph's] wife", "his [Joseph's] wife". I can come back to that later.

Notice the words "knew her". I can come back to that later.

Notice that word "till". Let's address this now:

G2193
ἕως
heōs

Total KJV Occurrences: 105
till, 41
Mat_1:25, Mat_2:9, Mat_5:18 (2), Mat_5:26, Mat_10:11, Mat_10:23, Mat_12:20, Mat_13:33, Mat_16:28, Mat_18:21, Mat_18:30, Mat_18:34, Mat_22:44, Mat_23:39, Mat_24:34, Mar_6:10, Mar_9:1, Mar_12:36, Luk_1:80, Luk_9:27, Luk_12:50, Luk_12:59, Luk_13:8, Luk_13:21, Luk_17:8 (2), Luk_19:13, Luk_20:43, Luk_21:32, Joh_13:38, Joh_21:22-23 (2), Act_8:40, Act_21:5, Act_23:12, Act_25:21 (2), Act_28:23, 1Ti_4:13, Heb_10:13
until, 35
Mat_1:17, Mat_2:13, Mat_2:15, Mat_11:12-13 (2), Mat_17:9, Mat_18:22 (2), Mat_24:39, Mat_26:29, Mat_27:64, Mar_14:25, Mar_15:33, Luk_13:35, Luk_15:4, Luk_22:16 (2), Luk_22:18, Luk_23:44, Luk_24:49, Joh_2:10, Joh_9:18, Act_2:35, Act_13:20, Act_21:26, Act_23:14, 1Co_4:5, 1Co_16:8, 2Th_2:7, Heb_1:13, Jas_5:7, 2Pe_1:19, 1Jn_2:9, Rev_6:11, Rev_20:5
long, 7
Mat_17:17 (2), Mar_9:19 (2), Luk_9:41, Joh_10:24, Rev_6:10
while, 7
Mat_14:22, Mat_26:36, Mar_6:45, Mar_14:32, Joh_9:4, Joh_12:35-36 (2)
how, 6
Mat_17:17, Mar_9:19 (2), Luk_9:41, Joh_10:24, Rev_6:10
far, 4
Luk_22:51, Luk_24:50, Act_11:19, Act_11:22
even, 2
Mar_14:54, 2Co_3:15
hitherto, 2
Joh_5:17, Joh_16:24
whiles, 1
Mat_5:24-25 (2)​

In the so-called lxx:

First 500 verses of 1393 shown
 

ReChoired

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The word "ἕως" according to "Strong's":

"... a conjugation, preposition and adverb of continuance, until (of time and place): - even (until, unto), (as) far (as), how long, (un-) til (-l), (hither-, un-, up) to, while (-s). ..."
It has a range of meaning that deals with time, whether limited or unlimited.

In Matthew 5:25, it means 'during' (meaning 'limited in scope'), or "whiles"

Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.​

Thus 'during the time a person is "in the way with" another. After the time allowed, it is too late.

In John 16:24, it means 'up to this point in time' or 'until now (presently)' (something was 'continually occuring until the time specified'), or "Hitherto":

Joh 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.​

Thus 'up to this point in time', the Disciples hadn't asked in Jesus' name, but afterward they would (Acts 3:6, 7:59, 16:18, 22:16, &c).

The context dictates the use. Other passages separate from the immediate context do not dictate it's use. In 2 Samuel 6:23, the word (H5704, "עד", or so called lxx, "ἕως") is in the context of "the day of her (Michal) death", which obvious context means she had 0 (no) children at all, during the time in which she could have had children. The death was the limiting factor. The difference between this and Matthew 1, is that Michal had no children unto the day of her death, while Mary was still very much alive after having Jesus, and Joseph "knew her not until" after that timeframe, she being his lawful "wife", whom he "took unto" himself to be 'one flesh' (which is the context of the marriage of Joseph and Mary).

Romanism has to imagine that Mary is somehow like Michal, but the type is all wrong. Michal was 'put aside' by David, Mary was not put away by Joseph (Matthew 1:19-25).

Deu 34:6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.​

Likewise, with Moses. The limiting factor of the word used (H5704, "עד", or so called lxx, "ἕως") is even to the present time (which it is still the present time, it is always the present time with us, though not with those of the past who have perished). Yet, if a person reads the NT, and understands from the Gospels, Romans and Jude, there is a reason no one knows where the grave of Moses is. In the first place, God Himself buried Moses (Deuteronomy 34:5-6), and it was God who resurrected him (Jude 1:9; Romans 5:14) and took him to Heaven and glorified him (Luke 9:31; 2 Peter 1:17). Thus there is no grave of Moses any longer. What has this to do with Mary and the passage of Matthew 1? Nothing.

It can even be used in matters of limiting distance (spacial, rather than time (chronlogically)), a boundary, see Luke 24:50; Acts 11:19,22, "as far as Bethany", "as far as Phenice and Cyprus", "as far as Antioch".

Consider 1 John 2:9:

1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.​

The time is limited in this, meaning 'up to the present', so long as the 'condition' exists, but the very moment that the person no longer hates his brother, the "until" no longer bounds the time, and the person is no longer in darkness, but is in the light.

The same way with Matthew 1:25. There was a bound set, so long as Mary was pregnant with Jesus, Joseph "knew (have marital relations with) her (Mary) not" "till" Jesus was born, after which, the condition changed, and Joseph and Mary were free to engage in that most intimate of the expression of love in marriage and the bed was undefiled (pure/holy).

Many more such examples can be provided. Now, consider the context of the other words associated with it in Matthew 1.

Notice the words "took unto him".
Notice the words "thy [Joseph's] wife", "his [Joseph's] wife".
Notice the words "knew her".
 
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ReChoired

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Most people on this board are not deceived by your walls of SDA propaganda and abuse of Scripture; the smart ones just put you on ignore. Good bye.
You might consider:

Pro_28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.

Zec_7:11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.

Act_7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,​
 

DancesWithGnostics

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I have heard some similar reasonings concerning UNTIL, BreadOfLife - I do remain OPEN about the perpetual virginity thing, it's just that there would certainly be nothing wrong with normal relations after Jesus was born - Mary is still Theotokos - nothing sinful at all about sex in marriage. I believe His brothers and sisters are from an earlier wife of Joseph who died, but cannot prove that. He would not have commended her care to John if James, Jude and the others were her own children.
 

DancesWithGnostics

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As far as the phrase "right hand of God" - I feel it is metaphorical; Jesus sits at the place of honor, God is Spirit - God the Father does not literally have a RIGHT HAND, a MOUTH, NOSTRILS, an ARM that he has bared to the heathen - there are many anthropomorphic descriptions of God which are not literal, imo.

Also, Jesus was STANDING when Stephen saw Him, as Stephen was being stoned.
 

BreadOfLife

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Strawman. Never said any such thing. When Romanists cannot address the material presented to them, they resort to such tactics as ad hominem and strawman, red herrings, and even going so far as to bear false witness (as just witnessed).
Funny how you whine about "ad hominem" - then you use an asinine term like "Romanists".

More SDA hypocrisy . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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It's the shape of a serpent's head, external and internal (the solar panels even appear to be scales, deriving its power from the sun (even as Romanism is sun worship, just as your own avatar reveals about the round wafer, and is placed in the crescent moon monstrance, the sun and the moon, Baal-Hadad). Nothing "funny" about it.
My avatar is a picture of the Holy Eucharist - the Bread of Life.

As for a monstrance - I've NEVER seen one in the shape of a "crescent moon" or a "sum".
They usually depict the shining glory of God.

Instead of reading Ellen G. White's excrement - do some actual homework, son . . .
 
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ReChoired

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I put the Catholic-basher on Ignore a while back.
Therein is your confusion (Babylon), when you strawman (as they do), for I am speaking against 'catholcism' (theology, faith/belief/practice), not a "catholic" (person). So, do you repent of your error, or, do you like they, desire to persist in it, claiming infallibility (iow, you are not admitting your error, and say you have no error in so saying) as they do?
 

BreadOfLife

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The Romish arguments are so silly and one-sided, ignoring the entire context, to focus upon a single word, irrespective of the whole.

Context:

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Mat 1:20 ButG1161 while heG846 thoughtG1760 on these things,G5023 behold,G2400 the angelG32 of the LordG2962 appearedG5316 unto himG846 inG2596 a dream,G3677 saying,G3004 Joseph,G2501 thou sonG5207 of David,G1138 fearG5399 notG3361 to takeG3880 unto thee MaryG3137 thyG4675 wife:G1135 forG1063 that which is conceivedG1080 inG1722 herG846 isG2076 ofG1537 the HolyG40 Ghost.G4151

Mat 1:24 ThenG1161 JosephG2501 being raisedG1326 fromG575 sleepG5258 didG4160 asG5613 theG3588 angelG32 of the LordG2962 had biddenG4367 him,G846 andG2532 tookG3880 unto him hisG848 wife:G1135

Mat 1:25 AndG2532 knewG1097 herG846 notG3756 tillG2193 she had brought forthG5088 herG848 firstbornG4416 son:G5207 andG2532 he calledG2564 hisG846 nameG3686 JESUS.G2424

Mat 1:20 ταυτα δε αυτου ενθυμηθεντος ιδου αγγελος κυριου κατ οναρ εφανη αυτω λεγων ιωσηφ υιος δαβιδ μη φοβηθης παραλαβειν μαριαμ την γυναικα σου το γαρ εν αυτη γεννηθεν εκ πνευματος εστιν αγιου

Mat 1:24 διεγερθεις δε ο ιωσηφ απο του υπνου εποιησεν ως προσεταξεν αυτω ο αγγελος κυριου και παρελαβεν την γυναικα αυτου

Mat 1:25 και ουκ εγινωσκεν αυτην εως ου ετεκεν τον υιον αυτης τον πρωτοτοκον και εκαλεσεν το ονομα αυτου ιησουν

Mat 1:20 ταυταG3778 D-APN δεG1161 CONJ αυτουG846 P-GSM ενθυμηθεντοςG1760 V-AOP-GSM ιδουG3708 V-2AAM-2S αγγελοςG32 N-NSM κυριουG2962 N-GSM κατG2596 PREP οναρG3677 N-OI εφανηG5316 V-2API-3S αυτωG846 P-DSM λεγωνG3004 V-PAP-NSM ιωσηφG2501 N-PRI υιοςG5207 N-NSM δαβιδG1138 N-PRI μηG3361 PRT-N φοβηθηςG5399 V-AOS-2S παραλαβεινG3880 V-2AAN μαριαμG3137 N-PRI τηνG3588 T-ASF γυναικαG1135 N-ASF σουG4771 P-2GS τοG3588 T-NSN γαρG1063 CONJ ενG1722 PREP αυτηG846 P-DSF γεννηθενG1080 V-APP-NSN εκG1537 PREP πνευματοςG4151 N-GSN εστινG1510 V-PAI-3S αγιουG40 A-GSN

Mat 1:24 διεγερθειςG1326 V-APP-NSM δεG1161 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM ιωσηφG2501 N-PRI αποG575 PREP τουG3588 T-GSM υπνουG5258 N-GSM εποιησενG4160 V-AAI-3S ωςG5613 ADV προσεταξενG4367 V-AAI-3S αυτωG846 P-DSM οG3588 T-NSM αγγελοςG32 N-NSM κυριουG2962 N-GSM καιG2532 CONJ παρελαβενG3880 V-2AAI-3S τηνG3588 T-ASF γυναικαG1135 N-ASF αυτουG846 P-GSM

Mat 1:25 καιG2532 CONJ ουκG3756 PRT-N εγινωσκενG1097 V-IAI-3S αυτηνG846 P-ASF εωςG2193 ADV ουG3739 R-GSM ετεκενG5088 V-2AAI-3S τονG3588 T-ASM υιονG5207 N-ASM αυτηςG846 P-GSF τονG3588 T-ASM πρωτοτοκονG4416 A-ASM-S καιG2532 CONJ εκαλεσενG2564 V-AAI-3S τοG3588 T-ASN ονομαG3686 N-ASN αυτουG846 P-GSM ιησουνG2424 N-ASM​
Notice the words "took unto him". I can come back to that later.
Notice the words "thy [Joseph's] wife", "his [Joseph's] wife". I can come back to that later.
Notice the words "knew her". I can come back to that later.
Notice that word "till". Let's address this now:
G2193
ἕως
heōs

Total KJV Occurrences: 105
till, 41

far, 4
Luk_22:51, Luk_24:50, Act_11:19, Act_11:22
even, 2
Mar_14:54, 2Co_3:15
hitherto, 2
Joh_5:17, Joh_16:24
whiles, 1
Mat_5:24-25 (2)​

In the so-called lxx:

First 500 verses of 1393 shown
Here is some BIBLICAL context for you . . .

NT Fulfillments
are ALWAYS more perfect than their OT Types. This is without exception.
That being said – let’s look at an OT Type of Mary.

Whereas the symbols of God’s word were contained in the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament, Mary actually carried God himself - the Word - in her womb in the New Testament. And, whereas the Old Testament Ark had to be made of pure materials and blessed and undefiled, how much MORE pure and undefiled would the vessel that carried God have to be?

OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).


Finally - in the Book of Revelation, we see the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven being spoken of at the very end of Chapter 11, verse 19:
Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ARK OF HIS COVENANT could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.

The very next verse is in Chapter 12 (Rev 12:1):
A great sign appeared in the sky, A WOMAN clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Verse 2 says:
SHE WAS WITH CHILD and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.

We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read:
She gave birth to a son, a MALE CHILD, DESTINIED TO RULE ALL NATIONS WITH AN IRON ROD.

There is simply NO getting around the fact that the “Woman” here in Revelation 12, which is ALSO the “Ark” is Mary.
The Ark was NOT to be touched or defiled by man. Joseph knew this because Uzzah learned the HARD way (2 Sam. 6:6-7).

There's your Biblical context - not the ravings of an anti-Catholic lunatic like E. G. White . . .