Mother Teresa

[Triumph1300]

You don't believe anyone is in heaven??
Where do you think they are?

Good question. (Wink....wink......)

 

[GodsGrace]

well, the Witch of Endor called Samuel up "from the earth..."


how ya been?

Hey bb,
You always make me laugh.
All is normal.
Missed ya...

 

[Triumph1300]

Samuel impersonator.

 

[GodsGrace]

If she believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God had raised Him from the dead, then she is saved. That foundation laid by Jesus Christ cannot be removed. But as it is, no thanks to the works of catholicism and any other heresy she may have committed, any works that deny Him on that foundation, she will be denied her inheritance of being that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

If she had repented on her deathbed, which I am not sure any one can confirm that, then she may yet be received by the Bridegroom.

As it is... since no saint has received their inheritance yet, she is with the Lord if she believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God had raised Him from the dead. If unrepentant of her iniquities, she will not inherit the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus, but shall be received as a vessel unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

She might be under the altar in Heaven with the Lord as I am wondering if the reason why they were told to wait in Revelation 6th chapter was because all those that have died as His up to the rapture, are being told to wait a little longer for their "glorified terrestrial inheritance" as vessels unto dishonor in His House because of the unrepentant brethren that got left behind to face the fire coming on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation as a result.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Do note that to the call to depart from iniquity is how one is received as a vessel unto honor in His House. Therefore, the vessels unto dishonor are those that did not depart from iniquity. It is considered a damnation to become that vessel unto dishonor in His House for why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth over the loss of their first inheritance like Esau's loss, but like the prodigal son that had given up his first inheritance for wild living, and can never get it back, he is still son... the unrepentant saints will come Home for He is faithful for He still abides and thus cannot deny Himself as He will lose none of all the Father has given Him. That is why all works that deny Him ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ), will be burned up but they are saved ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 ) ; those that defile the Temple of God, their physical bodies will be destroyed.. hence physical death ( Revelation 2:21-23 ).

Why would the vessels unto dishonor be in His House? Because they testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name. ( John 1:12-13 ) But it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Stripes will be coming for not repenting but even Luke 12:40-49 has Him acknowledging them as His servants still, and thus still saved. See the purpose in 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 for judging His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV only for the testimony of His faithfulness in keeping the souls of those saints left behind to suffer ) in that way at the pre great trib rapture event.

You're very into eschatology so I'm not going to be able to converse with you very well.

I just was wondering what you think Mother Teresa would have to repent about?
She had a relationship with Jesus and was doing her work for HIM.

Also, I don't know what you believe, but the catholic church believes Jesus saves us, just like we do.

 

[GodsGrace]

View attachment 2816 Samuel impersonator.

LOL

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You're very into eschatology so I'm not going to be able to converse with you very well.

I just was wondering what you think Mother Teresa would have to repent about?
She had a relationship with Jesus and was doing her work for HIM.

Also, I don't know what you believe, but the catholic church believes Jesus saves us, just like we do.

Well, the Catholic catechism says otherwise of what the official standing of the Catholic Church is on that subject.

I have heard of Catholics believing that they are saved, but again, the Catholic catechism says otherwise for why some Catholics, if not the majority in general, do not believe they are saved yet... even though His words says they are saved for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God had raised Him from the dead.

 

[Nancy]

Well, the Catholic catechism says otherwise of what the official standing of the Catholic Church is on that subject.

I have heard of Catholics believing that they are saved, but again, the Catholic catechism says otherwise for why some Catholics, if not the majority in general, do not believe they are saved yet... even though His words says they are saved for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God had raised Him from the dead.

God looks to the heart. Catholic or not. Jesus will hold ALL Church leaders accountable for their actions or lack thereof. We should never say to ourselves who is or who is not saved. Do we see their hearts? Of course not, but we do see their good deeds done through Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, the Catholic catechism says otherwise of what the official standing of the Catholic Church is on that subject.

I have heard of Catholics believing that they are saved, but again, the Catholic catechism says otherwise for why some Catholics, if not the majority in general, do not believe they are saved yet... even though His words says they are saved for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God had raised Him from the dead.

I wish you would have posted it.
Do you mean that we are BEING saved?
This is true. IOW, we can know RIGHT NOW that we are saved, but we cannot know we'll be saved 20 years from now or 6 months from now.

If we still have faith in Jesus and believe in Him and follow Him, then the CC does teach that we'll be saved then too ...It's just that they don't believe in eternal security.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

God looks to the heart. Catholic or not. Jesus will hold ALL Church leaders accountable for their actions or lack thereof. We should never say to ourselves who is or who is not saved. Do we see their hearts? Of course not, but we do see their good deeds done through Christ.

When it comes to discerning believers by Him if they are abiding in Him or not, it will have to be more than just discerning them by their outward good deeds spoken of in general by others.

We saw what we wanted to see about Bill Cosby because we liked what we had seen in the Cosby shows, until the truth came out. Cosby needed the Saviour just as much as any one of us do.

Just because someone profess Him and do wonderful works in His name, does not mean they are not workers of iniquity that Jesus will deny. Matthew 7:21-23 If bad reports come out, then we should not allow that person's good deeds blind us to their questionable walk in the Lord and exalt them to a an approved position just because the media and the world does.

 

[Philip James]

but the other poster was speaking about running to get to the banquet.

The banquet has been ongoing since the last supper. The doors are open to all..

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I wish you would have posted it.

Here are some quotes from the Catholic catechism provided by the links to where you can find those quotes.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.

824 United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him; through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. "All the activities of the Church are directed, as toward their end, to the sanctification of men in Christ and the glorification of God."292 It is in the Church that "the fullness of the means of salvation"293 has been deposited. It is in her that "by the grace of God we acquire holiness."294

830 The word "catholic" means "universal," in the sense of "according to the totality" or "in keeping with the whole." the Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ's body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

1113 The whole liturgical life of the Church revolves around the Eucharistic sacrifice and the sacraments.29 There are seven sacraments in the Church: Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Eucharist, Penance, Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony.30

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.

Do you mean that we are BEING saved?

No. You are saved so you CAN tell others that Jesus Christ IS the Good News and that He IS your Saviour BECAUSE HE HAS SAVED YOU. The fact that the Holy Ghost is in you is also a Witness that you are saved.

This is true. IOW, we can know RIGHT NOW that we are saved, but we cannot know we'll be saved 20 years from now or 6 months from now.

If we still have faith in Jesus and believe in Him and follow Him, then the CC does teach that we'll be saved then too ...It's just that they don't believe in eternal security.

Well.... if one does not believe in eternal security, then how can any one know that they are still saved to tell others the Good News? Ephesians 4:30 testifies that the Holy Spirit is not going any where.. and so unless a saved believer stops laboring in unbelief for that eternal security, they run the risk of being left behind at the pre great trib rapture.

 

[Helen]

You don't believe anyone is in heaven??
Where do you think they are?

Hey there.
So you believe that we have all arrived at the end of the book of Revelation?
All things have been fulfilled?
All from the beginning of time have been resurrected?
The judgement seat has taken place?
The time of the Great White Throne is passed?

If so, I think all of us here have somehow missed it!!
Because here we are...still in flesh bodies.

If you, or anyone ( which most seem to believe, not sure why , except by brainwashing) believe that some people are in heaven and others in hell already...then all judgement for works has already taken place !!!


To me it is a great mystery why mature Christians would believe that
Forget the spiritual side of it, even with logic it doesn't make sense.
No one has been judged yet. How can they have been?

No, I believe that there is a Paradise Place ...a waiting place. A Place in God Himself...but not yet Heaven. As for the unwashed dead...I believe they are just that..at this moment, dead to all things.....until...

 

[Enoch111]

So you believe that we have all arrived at the end of the book of Revelation?

What does this have to do with the saints being in Heaven ever since the resurrection and ascension of Christ?

I have already shown you the Scripture which plainly reveals that God the Father, Jesus the Mediator, all the holy angels, all the OT saints, all the NT saints who have passed on, as well as the blood of Christ, are in the New Jerusalem RIGHT NOW. And you have simply brushed it off, instead of believing the Word and abandoning your false idea about who is in Heaven.

 

[Helen]

I have already shown you the Scripture which plainly reveals that God the Father, Jesus the Mediator, all the holy angels, all the OT saints, all the NT saints who have passed on, as well as the blood of Christ, are in the New Jerusalem RIGHT NOW. And you have simply brushed it off, instead of believing the Word and abandoning your false idea about who is in Heaven.

Haha!! I wish I had a $ for everything everybody thinks they have " shown me"
Just because YOU say this is so, actually does not mean that it is so.

I DO "believe The Word"...I just don't believe your word.

All you have, is 'an opinion' about what you read is scripture...as do I.

Be blessed....H

 

[Enoch111]

Just because YOU say this is so, actually does not mean that it is so.

If it was merely my opinion it would not matter.

But you have disregarded Hebrews 12:22-24, which ties in with Hebrew 11, and Hebrews 12:1, as well as related other passages. So it is NOT my opinion but the Word of God which you have ignored. That is pretty serious.

 

[Helen]

If it was merely my opinion it would not matter.

But you have disregarded Hebrews 12:22-24, which ties in with Hebrew 11, and Hebrews 12:1, as well as related other passages. So it is NOT my opinion but the Word of God which you have ignored. That is pretty serious.

I appreciate your concern...but 'heaven' as we know is wherever God is.
So "to me" your scriptures are not convincing.

But, bless you anyway..and thank you .

 

[Willie T]

It blows my mind how many people actually think "The New Jerusalem" is some sort of brick & mortar city complex Christians have to live inside.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here are some quotes from the Catholic catechism provided by the links to where you can find those quotes.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.

824 United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him; through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. "All the activities of the Church are directed, as toward their end, to the sanctification of men in Christ and the glorification of God."292 It is in the Church that "the fullness of the means of salvation"293 has been deposited. It is in her that "by the grace of God we acquire holiness."294

830 The word "catholic" means "universal," in the sense of "according to the totality" or "in keeping with the whole." the Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ's body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

1113 The whole liturgical life of the Church revolves around the Eucharistic sacrifice and the sacraments.29 There are seven sacraments in the Church: Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Eucharist, Penance, Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony.30

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.



No. You are saved so you CAN tell others that Jesus Christ IS the Good News and that He IS your Saviour BECAUSE HE HAS SAVED YOU. The fact that the Holy Ghost is in you is also a Witness that you are saved.



Well.... if one does not believe in eternal security, then how can any one know that they are still saved to tell others the Good News? Ephesians 4:30 testifies that the Holy Spirit is not going any where.. and so unless a saved believer stops laboring in unbelief for that eternal security, they run the risk of being left behind at the pre great trib rapture.

First, the above does not speak to what we were talking about.
You said we lose our salvation every time we sin. The above doen't reply to that. In fact, it is not catholic doctrine...

Second, in your last paragraph you speak about eternal security as if the CC believed in it. It does NOT. You just contradicted yourself when you said we lose it every time we sin.

What you're saying is really confusing.
Are you Catholic?

 

[GodsGrace]

It blows my mind how many people actually think "The New Jerusalem" is some sort of brick & mortar city complex Christians have to live inside.

Yes. Isn't the New Jerusalem coming at the end of the world?
I don't know too much about the end times, but there's a heaven in between.
The New Jerusalem is when we get our glorified bodies.
I think.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey there.
So you believe that we have all arrived at the end of the book of Revelation?
All things have been fulfilled?
All from the beginning of time have been resurrected?
The judgement seat has taken place?
The time of the Great White Throne is passed?

If so, I think all of us here have somehow missed it!!
Because here we are...still in flesh bodies.

If you, or anyone ( which most seem to believe, not sure why , except by brainwashing) believe that some people are in heaven and others in hell already...then all judgement for works has already taken place !!!


To me it is a great mystery why mature Christians would believe that
Forget the spiritual side of it, even with logic it doesn't make sense.
No one has been judged yet. How can they have been?

No, I believe that there is a Paradise Place ...a waiting place. A Place in God Himself...but not yet Heaven. As for the unwashed dead...I believe they are just that..at this moment, dead to all things.....until...

The waiting place was in Luke 16...The Rich Man and Lazarus.
Didn't Jesus go there to free the prisoners?
Didn't He tear open the veil of the temple when He died on the cross?
Doesn't Paul say that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord?
And isn't the New Jerusalem the New Earth after the end of the world?