Must Christians obey government

[Bobby Jo]

... Notice that David did not hang around to get speared by Saul. Shalom.
P.S. Whenever one is faced with having to choose to obey God or man, choose God. This is good disobedience. But it's not rebellion.

Excellent advice! And of course where Lke 22:35-36 says to EVEN SELL YOUR CLOAK to buy a sword, -- it's not necessarily to rebel against a government (although that may be necessary), I would presume it's primarily to protect ourselves and our families against criminals who would destroy us if they could.

Bobby Jo

 

[lforrest]

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

While the context of this verse is likely God's law, it states affirmatively there is no law.

So if man creates a law which goes against the Spirit of God, it is no law at all. Didn't Jesus heal on the Sabbath? If we have an opportunity to say, feed the hungry, but the law forbids meeting with them should we listen? If the law forbids sharing the gospel should we remain silent? Of course not, such laws are an abuse of power. And those who abuse their authority over others will get what they deserve for the suffering they inflict.

Anyone with eyes can see the over response to covid. It is being used, the saying goes never let a crisis go to waste. The intent of the overresponse is to disrupt society, so to make people turn to government and impose more socialist policies to fix their lives.

In so doing they are assaulting all three God given natural and inalienable rights. Life, liberty, and property. And anyone who makes an assault on these is also in violation of the constitution of the United States, which they have sworn to uphold... Other countries have them too, but these are the very foundation of America.

 

[APAK]

Hi. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego replied to him, "King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and He will deliver us from Your majesty's hand. But even if He does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship your image of gold you have set up." Daniel 3:16-18 NIV
Although these 3 guys were to be thrown into a furnace, they kept their respect for the king's authority. They did not rebel and they did insult him either. Out of reverence for their God, they submitted to the King's authority.
David did the same thing with King Saul. He knew that Saul was King by God's hand and knew that if he rebelled against Saul, he'd be rebelling against God. David understood that corrupt authority is better than anarchy. Notice that David did not hang around to get speared by Saul. Shalom.
P.S. Whenever one is faced with having to choose to obey God or man, choose God. This is good disobedience. But it's not rebellion.

Yes, and the key thing in your discourse is the fact that God's people KNEW that God was speaking to them and guided them and would deliver them in the end. They were focused on their God and not other authorities. They had no need to rebel openly against these authorities. They also had great faith for God in their lives. This should be the same today. We need more of this strong faith, and to listen to the Spirit. Christians should be guided by the Spirit to action or not and when and how when to act when they occur. When it is right you'll know it. And they don't have to be grand examples of God's interference with evil authorities either as in the examples you gave..they can be text and verbal disobedience to authorities in the public arena as well...they all count.

Shalom to you....great historical examples.. as you said 'it is good disobedience and not rebellion,' indeed...catchy

APAK

 

[bbyrd009]

David understood that corrupt authority is better than anarchy.

dont bet on that imo, Yah wants anarchists, as 1Sam8 makes plain; although our Gov is quick to conflate Anarchy with Chaos, they are not the same thing, wadr. Amish are Anarchists, Mennonites are, LDS, etc

 

[lforrest]

dont bet on that imo, Yah wants anarchists, as 1Sam8 makes plain; although our Gov is quick to conflate Anarchy with Chaos, they are not the same thing, wadr. Amish are Anarchists, Mennonites are, LDS, etc

In asking for a King, Israel rejected God's plan to rule with Judges. Not sure what that has to do with us.

 

[lforrest]

Furthermore the inalienable rights, life, liberty, and property should be listed in this order. Must we enslave everyone and abolish private property to ensure the chattle stock? As history proved with rivers of blood, this doesn't work. People are too short-sighted and will fold their hands seeing no reward for their labor. Then scarcity comes as promised.

It is through voluntarily surrendering the lower rights that people can have their cake and eat it too. God blesses, we serve, and other lives are blessed. In doing this our higher purpose for living is found, and our souls aggrandized.

 

[Taken]

Should Christians obey government under any circumstance(s)?

Are there times when Christians should resist government? And if so, how are they to conduct themselves?

Please cite scripture where and when possible as the 'glue' of these discussions as in all biblical discussions of debate.

Thank you,

Blessings

APAK

No legislative act, ... contrary to the Constitution, can be valid.
Essay # Federalist Paper # 78

It matters not, what Appointed or Elected men Say....it Wholly matters What they Do.

Men are Appointed and Elected, by "those who" Agree to be Governed, "BY Laws".

Men who are Appointed and Elected, Swear an OATH to Uphold the Constitution.

Upholding the Constitution...IS Expressly, a Sworn Oath Promise...to Make NO LAWS, Greater that the LIMIT of Constitution.

For Example:
Elected and Appointed Officials MADE a Law, Requiring every person to obtain Health Care Insurance.

Did you OBEY?
If so Why?

Does the Constitution Anywhere Declare ...
The Governed are Required to purchase Anything?
The Governed are Required to Take Care of their Health, in any manner whatsoever?
The Governed are Required to Pay For Another's Health Care?
The Governed are Required to Pay over their Earnings from working To the Government, so the Government can use one man's Earnings from working, to pay for Health care of a man who did Not work, did Not Earn?

No, I did not run out and Purchase, a Government instituted insurance plan, for the care of my Health or anyone else's.

The Government had No Constitutional Authority to require me to pay anything to anyone to take care of my health or for me to pay to take care of any one else's health.

Constitutionally, I am free to Take care of myself, as I freely choose is the most Beneficial To me.
I am not obligated or required to take the Elected or Appointed Officials recommendations for what "They" think I "should" do regarding my health or any one else's health.

The Constitution IS based upon Biblical Principles.

1 Tim 5:
[8] But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

And the parallel?
The Declaration of Independence-
Speaks of Liberty...
But Never mentions Democracy
The Constitution -
Speaks of Liberty...
But Never mentions Democracy

It is Corrupt Elected and Appointed "Politicians" sitting in seats of Honor, who are Preaching consistently and repeatedly "Democracy".

Democracy is the The DOING of Tyrants, with disregard of the Constitution!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[APAK]

No legislative act, ... contrary to the Constitution, can be valid.
Essay # Federalist Paper # 78

It matters not, what Appointed or Elected men Say....it Wholly matters What they Do.

Men are Appointed and Elected, by "those who" Agree to be Governed, "BY Laws".

Men who are Appointed and Elected, Swear an OATH to Uphold the Constitution.

Upholding the Constitution...IS Expressly, a Sworn Oath Promise...to Make NO LAWS, Greater that the LIMIT of Constitution.

For Example:
Elected and Appointed Officials MADE a Law, Requiring every person to obtain Health Care Insurance.

Did you OBEY?
If so Why?

Does the Constitution Anywhere Declare ...
The Governed are Required to purchase Anything?
The Governed are Required to Take Care of their Health, in any manner whatsoever?
The Governed are Required to Pay For Another's Health Care?
The Governed are Required to Pay over their Earnings from working To the Government, so the Government can use one man's Earnings from working, to pay for Health care of a man who did Not work, did Not Earn?

No, I did not run out and Purchase, a Government instituted insurance plan, for the care of my Health or anyone else's.

The Government had No Constitutional Authority to require me to pay anything to anyone to take care of my health or for me to pay to take care of any one else's health.

Constitutionally, I am free to Take care of myself, as I freely choose is the most Beneficial To me.
I am not obligated or required to take the Elected or Appointed Officials recommendations for what "They" think I "should" do regarding my health or any one else's health.

The Constitution IS based upon Biblical Principles.

1 Tim 5:
[8] But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

And the parallel?
The Declaration of Independence-
Speaks of Liberty...
But Never mentions Democracy
The Constitution -
Speaks of Liberty...
But Never mentions Democracy

It is Corrupt Elected and Appointed "Politicians" sitting in seats of Honor, who are Preaching consistently and repeatedly "Democracy".

Democracy is the The DOING of Tyrants, with disregard of the Constitution!

Glory to God,
Taken

Yes, the extent and point of their authority (government) is what they agreed to, uphold the laws of the land based on the Constitution, Bill of Rights..and all these are based on God-inspired men's thoughts.....

Yes, they broke the law not us and the precious contract/compact with the people. And based on this alone, Christian or not, all should react without love and humility.

I guess in the US we see this more clearly that other countries in the West because of the type of government we have, not a democracy, a Constitutional Republic written by God-fearing men.

The government of these States and the States itself are complicit in this diabolic world wide false flag they agreed together to execute on its citizens, and the world, based on a fake virus pandemic and transformed it into a national heath emergency - the false flag big lie. Their testing PCR machine is also a lie. If people knew how and what it tests for, they would storm the government at every level, today. They lied to us as they smile in our faces....every day.

What will we do...pray for this evil to be utterly destroyed.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[David H.]

I think that by the time the world, and I mean the entire planet ( hated of all Nations for My name sake) gets around to seeking our destruction, there will be nothing for us to defend nor any reason to defend it. Just leave it behind, take what you can carry, and head for the hills. It is no glory to God if at this time you are martyred. None will gain by your death, none will be encouraged by it, none will be uplifted by such a testimony. So God will not permit such a senseless death. Psalm 91.

The way I see it....
But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony. (Luke 21:12-13)

which is followed by this....
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. (rev. 12:10-11)

Not all brethren will face this, only the elect(saints, Called out ones). The rest will mount up on wings of eagles....
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (Rev 12:14)

Now note this is a woman, not a virgin nor a harlot. At the end of that time there is a judgment of this woman, those who have learned in the wilderness are raptured, (The offspring), those who have not come riding out on the back of the beast from the bottomless pit in Revelation 17 as a harlot, for they were the tares among the wheat. Much like Israel in the wilderness, those who fully trust in the provision of God will enter the promised land, those who do not will enter destruction and though they crossed the red sea could not cross the Jordan.

Today, we see a lot of fear being peddled in the churches, I Just watched a video last night that spoke about the DNA altering of the vaccine that is being pushed right now, and how this could well be the mark of the beast, and how those who do not get the vaccine will not be allowed to work or buy or sell etc. Well, will you trust the Provision of God then? or will you give in to the beast and the return of Normalcy? It is one thing to run and hide as you say, another to not be able to buy or sell or be a part of society as we know it, and many a church goer will not be able to overcome, But by His grace and provision we will overcome, because when we are weak, then He is strong.

You may not agree with my eschatology here, but there is a dire warning and a means to overcome in these words that apply to all Christians, let us not live and die in partial belief, but enter into the promise in full belief of His provision.

 

[Truman]

dont bet on that imo, Yah wants anarchists, as 1Sam8 makes plain; although our Gov is quick to conflate Anarchy with Chaos, they are not the same thing, wadr. Amish are Anarchists, Mennonites are, LDS, etc

I used to see myself as an anarchist and I can assure you that God did not want me like that. However, religiosity is a valid target for God's anarchists. This type tells the truth to the religious establishment. I can get behind this. Lol!
As far as current vaccines go, I won't take one. Why? Bill Gates, to start. I am also a fan of L.A. Marzulli.
As far as tares go, I think the enemy that comes at night does what is known as alien (demon) abductions. They have a breeding program. It is said that they will impregnate a woman and at a later date, take the fetus. Other times, a child is born and raised as a normal person, and later in life, they are shown what they are by others. Strange? Yes, but true. The bible teaches there are fallen angels and demons who walk the face of the earth. Some call them super scientists. Shalom

 

[Taken]

Democracy- is Majority Rules.

If Majority Rules...what about the Minority who doesn't Agree to be Governed by such Laws the Majority makes?

(Tough crap)!!!

Who is For Democrapsy?...Democraps.
How do they Effect Democrapsy?
Majority Vote.
How do they get a Majority Vote?
BY ANY means they can Devise.

What is their Devised Plan for an upcoming Election?
* Ballots mailed to Every household.
* Mail-in Ballots.
* proof of Citizenship- none
* proof of Identity- none

Approx, 10 to 12 million illegally in the US.
Approx 12 million foreigners, with legal privilege to live in the US permanently!

Neither (approx 22 million) are legally authorized to vote....but Yet...Democraps want to spend American taxpayers dollars to Print, Postmark 22million Ballots, to ineligible voters?

What is their expectation? The receiver Will Vote or Throw the Ballot Away?

Right is Right....Right is Right.
Wrong is Wrong....Left is Wrong!

 

[bbyrd009]

In asking for a King, Israel rejected God's plan to rule with Judges. Not sure what that has to do with us.

seems to me it is maybe as much about investment in the world as anything? But i mean Govs are not shy about it; we dont call it "serving your country" for nothing, Govs dont "accidentally" conflate Chaos with Anarchy, etc, imo

You have $$ in your pocket? Not Federal, No Reserves eh
imo it has everything to do with us!

 

[bbyrd009]

I used to see myself as an anarchist and I can assure you that God did not want me like that. However, religiosity is a valid target for God's anarchists. This type tells the truth to the religious establishment. I can get behind this. Lol!
As far as current vaccines go, I won't take one. Why? Bill Gates, to start. I am also a fan of L.A. Marzulli.
As far as tares go, I think the enemy that comes at night does what is known as alien (demon) abductions. They have a breeding program. It is said that they will impregnate a woman and at a later date, take the fetus. Other times, a child is born and raised as a normal person, and later in life, they are shown what they are by others. Strange? Yes, but true. The bible teaches there are fallen angels and demons who walk the face of the earth. Some call them super scientists. Shalom

brb later, prolly we are defining Anarchist diff?

 

[APAK]

I used to see myself as an anarchist and I can assure you that God did not want me like that. However, religiosity is a valid target for God's anarchists. This type tells the truth to the religious establishment. I can get behind this. Lol!
As far as current vaccines go, I won't take one. Why? Bill Gates, to start. I am also a fan of L.A. Marzulli.
As far as tares go, I think the enemy that comes at night does what is known as alien (demon) abductions. They have a breeding program. It is said that they will impregnate a woman and at a later date, take the fetus. Other times, a child is born and raised as a normal person, and later in life, they are shown what they are by others. Strange? Yes, but true. The bible teaches there are fallen angels and demons who walk the face of the earth. Some call them super scientists. Shalom

You may be on to something there..with the abductions and fallen angels today

I'm not doing any vaccines either. Why would anyone in their right mind consent to being self-raped with alien poisons into their bodies. These are being fast-tracked by companies that never produced any before..pure insanity....maybe a new thread of discussion is needed on this subject...??

APAK

 

[lforrest]

You may be on to something there..with the abductions and fallen angels today

I'm not doing any vaccines either. Why would anyone in their right mind consent to being self-raped with alien poisons into their bodies. These are being fast-tracked by companies that never produced any before..pure insanity....maybe a new thread of discussion is needed on this subject...??

APAK

The enemy can, and has, used this topic to make people question that they are fully human and eligable for salvation.

I fear where such a discussion will go.

 

[Truman]

You may be on to something there..with the abductions and fallen angels today

I'm not doing any vaccines either. Why would anyone in their right mind consent to being self-raped with alien poisons into their bodies. These are being fast-tracked by companies that never produced any before..pure insanity....maybe a new thread of discussion is needed on this subject...??

APAK

I think so. Its time has come.

 

[Truman]

The enemy can, and has, used this topic to make people question that they are fully human and eligable for salvation.

I fear where such a discussion will go.

Me too.

 

[Truman]

brb later, prolly we are defining Anarchist diff?

Southern Ontario wasn't exactly a breeding ground for anarchy during the 70s. If I had run into the wrong people, that may have been a different story. The Man and the military were my opponents.
Ideologically I was far left. As it turned out, so was my father. No surprise my uncles and grandfather were Orangemen. What is happening today is over the top. What we see isn't just counterculture, it's Marxism at its worse. Shalom.

 

[teamventure]

When it comes to restrictions during a pandemic though, restrictions to keep people safe, yes we should obey the government, as these laws are meant for good to protect others.

Josho, this is very naive. You need to study history.

 

[OzSpen]

A topic that is especially timely today in this fallen world that is getting 'smaller' every year.

Today, many people are in fear whether imagined or true. Some people are resisting government, many are obedient to it.

Should Christians obey government under any circumstance(s)?

Are there times when Christians should resist government? And if so, how are they to conduct themselves?

Please cite scripture where and when possible as the 'glue' of these discussions as in all biblical discussions of debate.

Thank you,

Blessings

APAK

APAK,

Acts 5:25-29 (NIV) makes it crystal clear what the Christian's responsibility is with civil government:

25 Then someone came and said, ‘Look! The men you put in jail are standing in the temple courts teaching the people.’ 26 At that, the captain went with his officers and brought the apostles. They did not use force, because they feared that the people would stone them.

27 The apostles were brought in and made to appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28 ‘We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,’ he said. ‘Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.’

29 Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than human beings!'​

When the laws of the government clash with laws of God, 'we must obey God'. Therefore, here in Australia we have some examples of this clash:

• killing unborn babies, right up until the time of birth.
  
• One State has legalised euthanasia and another two are considering this legislation.
• Legalising same-sex marriage.
• Making transgender legitimate.

Oz