Must Read - Christianity Vs Islam - False Prophet

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Amy

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(thesuperjag;19136)
I got a question for you muslims. Who is Lord... Muhammad? or Allah?Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
Very interesting question
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Wise Haven

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Very interesting question
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This is an interesting question.As I understand it:Muhammad - Is the prophet that received, or had revealed, the word of God (Allah) via GabrielAllah - Is the one god (God)Islam differentiates between prophets and non prophets. In Islam Jesus is considered a prophet rather than the manifestation of God in flesh (The Messiah)Christians revere Jesus as one with the Godhead and strive to be Christlike.Muslims revere and follow Muhammad and strive to be like Muhammad as per the sunna/hadith. This is a blasphemy because they are striving to be like Muhammad (A mere prophet) rather than following God's (Allah's) word as revealed in the Koran.In the simplest terms: - They are worshipping the messenger and not the originator of the message.
 

Amy

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(Wise Haven;19149)
This is an interesting question.As I understand it:Muhammad - Is the prophet that received, or had revealed, the word of God (Allah) via GabrielAllah - Is the one god (God)Islam differentiates between prophets and non prophets. In Islam Jesus is considered a prophet rather than the manifestation of God in flesh (The Messiah)Christians revere Jesus as one with the Godhead and strive to be Christlike.Muslims revere and follow Muhammad and strive to be like Muhammad as per the sunna/hadith. This is a blasphemy because they are striving to be like Muhammad (A mere prophet) rather than following God's (Allah's) word as revealed in the Koran.In the simplest terms: - They are worshipping the messenger and not the originator of the message.
This is some conclusion here
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Muslims accept all Holy books but then very smartly it was revealed that all are changed and only quran is intact. One wonders who have changed them, perhaps Allah himself. Just to give you an example, Jesus spoke God's word from his cradle. There is no record of this in world history or any of the Holy books but quran
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Even if one accepts that they were changed then as Ricky said the Law was practised by muhammed. One also wonders, why it is still practiced today as per shariah Law?For reference please check out the Islamic version of the birth of Jesus:
 

Wise Haven

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This is some conclusion here
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Muslims accept all Holy books but then very smartly it was revealed that all are changed and only quran is intact. One wonders who have changed them, perhaps Allah himself. Just to give you an example, Jesus spoke God's word from his cradle. There is no record of this in world history or any of the Holy books but quran
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For reference please check out the Islamic version of the birth of Jesus:http://www.christianityboard.com/quran-lie...st-s-t3700.html
Firstly the Koran is not intact. There is approx 50% of the Koran still in existence and this is (contrary to belief)written from oral witnessing rather than written from the beginning.Yes, the Koran seems to have recorded an oral, innacurate and incomplete record of Jesus as would be expected of a culture that had only received limited exposure to Christianity.
 

Amy

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(Wise Haven;19151)
Firstly the Koran is not intact. There is approx 50% of the Koran still in existence and this is (contrary to belief)written from oral witnessing rather than written from the beginning.Yes, the Koran seems to have recorded an oral, innacurate and incomplete record of Jesus as would be expected of a culture that had only received limited exposure to Christianity.
I agree but I was speaking from what a muslim believes. Between the link didn't work so I have replaced it with an attachment.
 

Jordan

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If Allah is mighty wise and can do all things, why does Allah need two other gods (Jesus and Mary) to be with him? Surely Allah can live on his own? Surely Allah is all powerful that he needs no help?Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Amy

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@ Wise Haven:This is what I was wrote in another thread to compare which book logically is intact.(Amy;14671)
Hi Ricky,May God give me His wisdom and protection!I see that a lot of my brothers and sisters in Christ have tried to answer your, not so tough questions and that too with Biblical references but nothing seem to satisfy you, therefore I will use logic and comparison.You do believe being a muslim that Quran was revealed to your Prophet and him only, that too over 23 years. The first 4 verses of Quran were revealed in 'gar-e-hira' and then the verse kept coming till next 23 years and the quran was compiled under the supervision of your prophet. In 23 years, as and when the verses came, the prophet used to have sahabas write it for him. The sahabas were nominated by the prophet himself to do the job. These nominated sahabas / scholars are also known as 'katib-e-quran' (the ones who wrote quran). Did you also know that your prophet could not read or write and that can be proved by historical references?Lets talk about The Bible. My brother Wakka has very rightly pointed out to you that bible was revealed to many not just one person. Many of them were historians of that time, kings and commoners. God spoke to these people in visions. They would go in trance and once the vision was over they would state each and everything on scrolls which are till today very much here in this world and can be seen by visting musemums.Now lets do the comparison. Quran was only revealed to one person where as Bible was revealed to many. That means, that Bible could not be a propoganda of one person, more over God choose who ever at His will to write whatever was being revealed. It was left NOT left to prophet to nominate a team of sahabas / scholars, not even Jesus himself. So you see no grouping or segregation either. Bible was written under the supervision of God Himself and not like you told us that Quran was written under the supervision of Prophet himself. One also wonders, how can someone who can not read or write can actually supervise?You also asked that the number of verse vary from one Bible to another, refering to Catholics. Till today muslims fight about the 'tafseer' translation of Quran. You must know why shia and sunni can never sit together. The point is that as per shia belief (which they never declare openly) part of Quran was eaten by a goat. That part mentioned 12 Imams. Now if they openly declare this they will be rejected to be called muslims just like mirzais. Hence every cast within the same umberella of religion may have difference in opinion. We are just humans. Coming back to my point, if this is not true where in Quran is it mentioned about those Imams that shias believe so strongly in? Another thing could be that it is an error of translation / tafseer. So you see there can be errors or simply not errors but just the perception of something. Translations vary and are highly dependent on the language, culture and society - region, which always leave a trace. I wonder why is it so difficult for you to understand that just like Quran, original scriptures of Bible do exsist !This is why we have no Blasphemy laws in our Christian States as we believe what belongs to God can not be protected well by any human BUT God himself. That is why we have freedom of speech and not the death plenty. We leave the judgement to God and God only.May God show you light, bless you !
In addition, the some what similar stories that you find find in Quran are the ones that muhammed heard from people of other religions. He had never himself read any of the books for the obvious fact that he could not read or write. A person who is uneducated can miscommunicate / misunderstand facts. Therefore these similar stories have eventually taken a form of fairy tale in quran.
 

Amy

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If anyone has read Torah / Old testament one knows that this story is fake:Volume 3, Book 34, Number 335: Narrated Ata bin Yasar: I met Abdullah bin 'Amr bin Al-'As and asked him, "Tell me about the description of Allah's Apostle which is mentioned in Torah (i.e. Old Testament.") He replied, 'Yes. By Allah, he is described in Torah with some of the qualities attributed to him in the Quran as follows: "O Prophet ! We have sent you as a witness (for Allah's True religion) And a giver of glad tidings (to the faithful believers), And a warner (to the unbelievers) And guardian of the illiterates. You are My slave and My messenger (i.e. Apostle). I have named you "Al-Mutawakkil" (who depends upon Allah). You are neither discourteous, harsh Nor a noise-maker in the markets And you do not do evil to those Who do evil to you, but you deal With them with forgiveness and kindness. Allah will not let him (the Prophet) Die till he makes straight the crooked people by making them say: "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah," With which will be opened blind eyes And deaf ears and enveloped hearts." http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...tml#003.034.335
 

Amy

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(thesuperjag;19154)
If Allah is mighty wise and can do all things, why does Allah need two other gods (Jesus and Mary) to be with him? Surely Allah can live on his own? Surely Allah is all powerful that he needs no help?Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
This is where politics step in. When muhammed started preaching his religion he was immensely rejected by Jews. Therefore, he tried to fool them:Volume 9, Book 92, Number 460: Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Apostle said (to the Muslims). "Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.' " [url="http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/092.sbt.html#009.092.460]http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...tml#009.092.460[/url]But when the rejection conmtinued muhammed got bitter and his allah smartly revealed this to him:As per quran :"And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their places and have abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook(their misdeed). Verily! Allah loves the kindly". The Qur'an, Al-Maidah(5):13. But one wonders, after this was revealed why did muhammed continued against allah's will and kept on punishing as per Torah and till today it is part of Shariah law.
 

Jordan

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(Amy)
(thesuperjag)
If Allah is mighty wise and can do all things, why does Allah need two other gods (Jesus and Mary) to be with him? Surely Allah can live on his own? Surely Allah is all powerful that he needs no help?
This is where politics step in. When muhammed started preaching his religion he was immensely rejected by Jews. Therefore, he tried to fool them:Volume 9, Book 92, Number 460:Narrated Abu Huraira:The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Apostle said (to the Muslims). "Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.' "[url="http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#009.092.460]http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#009.092.460[/url]But when the rejection conmtinued muhammed got bitter and his allah smartly revealed this to him:As per quran :"And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed themand made hard their hearts. They change words from their places andhave abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them.And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few ofthem. But forgive them and overlook(their misdeed). Verily! Allahloves the kindly". The Qur'an, Al-Maidah(5):13.But one wonders, after this was revealed why did muhammed continued against allah's will and kept on punishing as per Torah and till today it is part of Shariah law.Thank you for the kind answer dear sweet sister in Christ. No wonder it gets into politics. It creates a clear contradictions to what their Qu'ran has said. I can answer that that was in green...They want to be the world largest religion in the world...yet it is vain.Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Wise Haven

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This is where politics step in. When muhammed started preaching his religion he was immensely rejected by Jews. Therefore, he tried to fool them:Volume 9, Book 92, Number 460: Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Apostle said (to the Muslims). "Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.' " http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...tml#009.092.460But when the rejection conmtinued muhammed got bitter and his allah smartly revealed this to him:As per quran :"And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their places and have abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook(their misdeed). Verily! Allah loves the kindly". The Qur'an, Al-Maidah(5):13. But one wonders, after this was revealed why did muhammed continued against allah's will and kept on punishing as per Torah and till today it is part of Shariah law.
That really is the question: Why accept the laws of the Torah and then refute it(the Torah)It seems to be a case of jumping on the bandwagon, then, when the wagon does not go where you want it - disparage the wagon and then go where you want to.
 

Ricky W

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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(thesuperjag)
Now I got one question for you all muslims out there, I want you to answer this question for me please.Galatians 4:16 - Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?Much love from Jag.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
Al Baqoroh(2):147 The Truth is from thy Lord; so be not at all in doubt.Wallahu a'lam.
 

Ricky W

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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(amy)
Ricky can i ask you something?What is more disgusting for you as a muslim:1. Pig2. Urine of an animal
("ricky w")
A'udzbillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimIf you give an optional between those 2 i chose no. 1. (additional : I chose no.1 which is most disgusting between those two)But the most disgusting for a muslim is unbelieve to Allah and His Messenger or done Syirik to Allah s.w.t(worship god beside Him The Most High).Wallahu a'lam.
Now, i'm afraid that you are taking wrong of my answer, then i shall make clarify of it.("Ricky W")
Just want make clarify, for me pig is more disguisting then urine. I choose no.1 to following the question on amy's.Thank you .Wallahu a'lam.
If that not satisfy you, or wont make you understand what i meant, then that's became your own problem
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. And if that you considered as my fault, so be it and that's my bad for English is my 2nd language, and i'm sorry for making you confuse
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. Wallahu a'lam.
 

Ricky W

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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Amy)
Two prophets two cases of adultery same situation. What is different is the reaction, which is that Jesus had to challenge the crowd not to stone the woman whereas it was ordered by muhammed to stone the adulterer jews, and the case was presented to him by a jew which was by all means no challenge.
So you admitted Jesus was prophet
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?Again amy, please read carefully what was on John and what was foretold in the Hadith ! It's different and similliar perhaps but not same situation and condition. And i can tell and know why Jesus not stoning her ALONE, he (pbuh) knows also he was being tested. Jesus was clever.Wallahu a'lam.
 

Ricky W

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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Amy)
No Ricky, you are missing the fact that we are not discussing scholars but everything with reference to Quran and Hadith. Hadith on its own has been complied by different authors but the most authentic one as per muslims (not me) is Sahih Bukhari. As agreed by you as well in this thread.All context has been shared in our conversation (you and me) from either Quran or Sahih Bukhari. So don't confuse the audience by bring in scholars
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IF you are doubting Quran and Sahih Bukhari then my friend you are doubting your religion. Which in my opinion you should.
Those scholars was not using their opinion without seeing the hadith first, and they were more knowing then i do, because they were studied on that field. Meanwhile i just an IT Scholars which is standing for my Faith.And i'm not doubting Quran and Hadith Sahih Bukhari at all for entire of my life (Insya Allaah). In fact i already proven to you regarding your misunderstanding on regarding on Quran verse with what prophet Muhammad s.a.w. did throught hadith.Wallahu a'lam.
 

Ricky W

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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Amy)
It sigh, that Ricky dose not know his religion well.Muhammed in his complete senses can not use both laws. As per quran :"And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their places and have abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook(their misdeed). Verily! Allah loves the kindly". The Qur'an, Al-Maidah(5):13. So if Allah says Torah is corrupt and if he curses the jews how can muhammed practice it's Law on muslims?Between, in Torah it is God who is the creator decides who is going to perish.
Ha...ha...ha... this is which sometimes makes me smilling on some type of you by the time seeing or read or understanding the Quran. You just using your own desire without carefully read !I ask you a question amy, does that verse was telling all that in the Torah was corrupt ?It is sigh that you also perhaps don't know/realize that your own bible was indeed admitted that Torah was been corrupted.That verse which you brought here just make what in hadith is more accurate.Now regarding on that verses also, one more time i bring the same hadith that recorded by Shahih Muslim as an example.(4) Al-Bara' b. 'Azib reported: There happened to pass by Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) a Jew blackened and lashed. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) called them (the jews) and said: Is this the punishment that you find in your Book (Torah) as a prescribed punishment for adultery? They said: Yes. He (the Holy Prophet) called one of the scholars amongst them and said: I ask you in the name of Allah Who sent down the Torah on Moses if that is the prescribed punishment for adultery that you find in your Book. He said: No. Had you not asked me in the name of Allah, I would not have given you this information. We find stoning to death (as punishment prescribed in the Torah). But this (crime) became quite common amongst our aristocratic class. So when we caught hold of any rich person (indulging in this offence) we spared him, but when we caught hold of a helpless person we imposed the prescribed punishment upon him. We then said: Let us argree (on a punishment) which we can inflict both upon the rich and the poor. So We decided to blacken the face with coal and flog as a substitute punishment for stoning. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: O Allah, I am the first to revive Thy command when they had made it dead. He then commanded and he (the offender) was stoned to death. Allah, the Majestic and Glorious, sent down (this verse):" O Messenger, (the behaviour of) those who vie with one another in denying the truth should not grieve you..." up to" is vouchsafed unto you, accept it" (v. 41) 2176 It was said (by the jews): Go to Muhammad; it he commands you to blacken the face and award flogging (as punishment for adultery), then accept it, but it he gives verdict for stoning, then avoid it. It was (then) that Allah, the Majestic and Great, sent down (these verses):" And they who do not judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed are, indeed, deniers of the truth" (v. 44) ;" And they who do not judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed-they, they indeed are the wrongdoers" (v. 45) ;" And they who do not judge in accordance with what God has revealed-they are the iniquitous (v. 47). (All these verses) were revealed in connection with the non-believers. (Book #017, Hadith #4214)
As we see here, if we were to agree with Ricky then MUHAMMED HAS BY-PASSED WHAT IS WRITTEN IN QURAN AGAIN ! Hence proven in Islam it is not Allah who makes the decisions but Muhammed.
Not it's not, it just you who the one often twisted what has been foretold in the Quran, and misunderstanding it for fullfill your own desire and been proven to be wrong for your own desire.Wallaahu a'lam.
 

Ricky W

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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(thesuperjag)
I got a question for you muslims. Who is Lord... Muhammad? or Allah?Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
Al Fatihah(1)1 In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. 2 Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; 3 Most Gracious, Most Merciful; 4 Master of the Day of Judgment. 5 Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.Al Fath(48)28 It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion: and enough is Allah for a Witness. 29 Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.An Nisa(4)64 We sent not an apostle, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah.s forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.Wallahu a'lam.
 

Ricky W

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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(thesuperjag)
If Allah is mighty wise and can do all things, why does Allah need two other gods (Jesus and Mary) to be with him? Surely Allah can live on his own? Surely Allah is all powerful that he needs no help?Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
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What supposed to be is this ? Are trying to say that Allah needs Maryam and Yeshua as others gods ?Wallahu a'lam.
 

Ricky W

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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Amy)
This is where politics step in. When muhammed started preaching his religion he was immensely rejected by Jews. Therefore, he tried to fool them:Volume 9, Book 92, Number 460: Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Apostle said (to the Muslims). "Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.' " http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...tml#009.092.460But when the rejection conmtinued muhammed got bitter and his allah smartly revealed this to him:As per quran :"And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their places and have abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook(their misdeed). Verily! Allah loves the kindly". The Qur'an, Al-Maidah(5):13. But one wonders, after this was revealed why did muhammed continued against allah's will and kept on punishing as per Torah and till today it is part of Shariah law.
Again you twisted for your own desire,Even those hadith were not contradict at all with the verse, now please read carefully again !What was prophet Muhammad s.a.w. told in thus hadith ? Don't believe person ! Becuase what ? See it at the verse that you brought for the reason.Al Maidah(5)13. ...They change words from their places and have abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them...Prophet Muhammad s.a.w was foretold us to be caution on THE PERSONAL/THE JEWS/THE AHLEL KITAB PERSON but we are told to believe what God has been revealed to the prophet Muhammad s.a.w. and to they. The revelation of God was to be trusted for Muslim.And only God and His Messenger were who knows what He already revealed. Wallahu a'lam.
 

Ricky W

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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(thesuperjag)
Thank you for the kind answer dear sweet sister in Christ. No wonder it gets into politics. It creates a clear contradictions to what their Qu'ran has said. I can answer that that was in green...They want to be the world largest religion in the world...yet it is vain.Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
Sorry Jordan, but i have to disagree with you regarding on this. We don't want to be world largest in the world, NO NOT AT ALL.We just want people WORSHIP GOD ALONE, NOT WORSHIP IDOLS, STATUE, PERSON, OR OTHERS BESIDES HIM. We want people can go to the place we were belong, by WORSHIPING HE THE MOST ONE, NONE GODS BESIDES HIM. World is only a tiny part of universe, we don't need that at all. We want all of human as slave of God, and realize that we are just a tiny creature being that should see infront of GOD THE MOST HIGH. And again it's not contradict, it just you and others perhaps don't understand it. It sigh that you have made your own judgment before learning with clean and truth heart.Wallahu a'lam.
 
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