My agnostic friend says: "I don't need it." - How would you respond?

[St. SteVen]

Met for coffee with my agnostic friend today.
He had something interesting to share.

A bit of background first.
Our church was encouraging us to invite people to Easter Sunday service.
So, I wanted to invite my friend and his wife. (newly married)

Turns out that three different people invited them to church in a two day period. - LOL
What's up with that?

/

 

[Randy Kluth]

Met for coffee with my agnostic friend today.
He had something interesting to share.

A bit of background first.
Our church was encouraging us to invite people to Easter Sunday service.
So, I wanted to invite my friend and his wife. (newly married)

Turns out that three different people invited them to church in a two day period. - LOL
What's up with that?

/

1) It's Easter. Every pastor is asking you to invite friends or family.
2) God is reaching out to this couple--they can say yes or no.

I don't invite people to church--I invite them to accept Christ. Church growth programs might work for a particular church with an evangelical outreach. Most small churches grow slowly, when people move into an area and become interested. My opinion only....

 

[Ziggy]

I have been an important support for him.

This is why he needs God.
God works through you giving support to your friend.
And through God your friend will be able to support others.
Right now, you are his crutch. What he doesn't see is it is God working through you to reach out to him.
Sometimes you can't tell them, you have to show them.

Maybe your friend hasn't found the bottom of the barrel yet. Sounds like his life has been pretty rough not finding peace in his marriages.
What is he looking for? He found this wife and she was estranged, and then another also estranged.
Is he trying to justify his own agnosticity by finding women who have given up on God?

But he sees you haven't. And that's perhaps why all the questions.
What is it about God that makes it easy for me to lean on you?
That's easy, your not really leaning on me, your leaning on Jesus who is in me.

I wonder how that would go over.. lol
just thinking
Hugs

 

[St. SteVen]

Maybe your friend hasn't found the bottom of the barrel yet. Sounds like his life has been pretty rough not finding peace in his marriages.
What is he looking for? He found this wife and she was estranged, and then another also estranged.
Is he trying to justify his own agnosticity by finding women who have given up on God?

That's the irony.
He does need God. As you noted, I was sent as a representative and support.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

2) God is reaching out to this couple--they can say yes or no.

Yes.
There's more to the story about the invitations.
My friend's wife is a Christian non-attender. (doesn't go to church anymore)

My Easter invitation to them (through him) was due to my Pastor asking us to invite people.
The other two invitations were divine appointments with his wife.

Both divine appointments came with a prophetic word of knowledge/wisdom for her.
And concluded with an invitation to church and assurances that their church
is not like the ones she had a problem with in the past.

Imagine my amazement as my agnostic friend shared these encounters with me.
He remembered exactly what his wife had reported to him. I think this had quite an impact on them.

- Three invitations in two days.
- Two divine encounters.
- Two prophetic words of wisdom/direction.

They accepted my Easter invitation.
I encouraged them to visit the other churches at some point as well.

Thanks to everyone who has already offered prayers.
Let's pray for what is next for this couple.
Hopefully an encounter with the loving presence of God.

/ @Ziggy @Deborah_ @Lambano

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic. Link below.

Is the Good News actual news? - No longer news to most

/

 

[Phil .]

Humor aside, how would you respond? Why do we need a relationship with God?
Or, more to the point, why does he need a relationship with God? Remember, he is agnostic

There is absolute truth. It isn’t found outside oneself. Neither of you are aware of it.

 

[St. SteVen]

There is absolute truth. It isn’t found outside oneself. Neither of you are aware of it.

Is that supposed to be helpful?

/

 

[Lambano]

There is absolute truth. It isn’t found outside oneself. Neither of you are aware of it.

Is that absolutely true?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes.
There's more to the story about the invitations.
My friend's wife is a Christian non-attender. (doesn't go to church anymore)

My Easter invitation to them (through him) was due to my Pastor asking us to invite people.
The other two invitations were divine appointments with his wife.

Both divine appointments came with a prophetic word of knowledge/wisdom for her.
And concluded with an invitation to church and assurances that their church
is not like the ones she had a problem with in the past.

Imagine my amazement as my agnostic friend shared these encounters with me.
He remembered exactly what his wife had reported to him. I think this had quite an impact on them.

- Three invitations in two days.
- Two divine encounters.
- Two prophetic words of wisdom/direction.

They accepted my Easter invitation.
I encouraged them to visit the other churches at some point as well.

Thanks to everyone who has already offered prayers.
Let's pray for what is next for this couple.
Hopefully an encounter with the loving presence of God.

/ @Ziggy @Deborah_ @Lambano

God can only reach out to people with His word. They can take it or leave it. Of course we earnestly wish that they will take it!

DeVern Fromke said at a meeting I attended something like, "You can't dress up the cross with beautiful roses, and compel people or bribe them into accepting the Gospel. There is a cost, and though it's a beautiful choice the hard choices still have to be made."

 

[St. SteVen]

God can only reach out to people with His word.

That's a very limited view.
Does God adhere to your restraints?

/

 

[O'Darby]

My agnostic friend acknowledges that some people need something, like religion, to help them get along in life.
He considers himself to be in the group that doesn't need something, like religion, to help him get along in life.

I think this is his polite way of saying, crutches are fine for those who need them, but he doesn't need one.
Ironically, he walks using a cane. - LOL

Humor aside, how would you respond? Why do we need a relationship with God?
Or, more to the point, why does he need a relationship with God? Remember, he is agnostic,
so appeals to the existence of God and the reliability of the Bible have little bearing.

He was raised Lutheran, baptized and confirmed in the church.
Stopped going to church at some point. Married a Catholic woman that was also estranged from the church.
Which ended in a nasty divorce which nearly destroyed my friend. I have been an important support for him.
He is now remarried to a Protestant Christian who is also estranged from the church, but has a relationship with God.

/ cc: @ChristisGod @mailmandan @Lizbeth @quietthinker @amadeus @David in NJ @Hillsage @Lambano @Peterlag @marks @1stCenturyLady @St. SteVen

I would say to your friend, "This isn't about what you need or think you need. It's about what is ontologically True. If Christianity - or, for that matter, atheism or Hinduism - is ontologically True, it will inform and affect the way you lead your life now and may have eternal consequences. If Christianity is true, you do in fact 'need it.' You owe it to yourself to seriously investigate and consider the possibilities. In fact, I believe this is the very purpose of life."

 

[St. SteVen]

I would say to your friend, "This isn't about what you need or think you need. It's about what is ontologically True. If Christianity - or, for that matter, atheism or Hinduism - is ontologically True, it will inform and affect the way you lead your life now and may have eternal consequences. If Christianity is true, you do in fact 'need it.' You owe it to yourself to seriously investigate and consider the possibilities. In fact, I believe this is the very purpose of life."

Can it be proved scientifically? He doesn't accept philosophical arguments.


See my posts #161 and #165 for the latest developments.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5 NIV
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words,
but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power,
5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

/

 

[Randy Kluth]

That's a very limited view.
Does God adhere to your restraints?

I'm limiting myself not to God's restraints but to my own. I've found over many years of personal experience that people are hard-headed and hard-hearted. If they don't want to hear, they won't.

 

[St. SteVen]

I'm limiting myself not to God's restraints but to my own. I've found over many years of personal experience that people are hard-headed and hard-hearted. If they don't want to hear, they won't.

God can only reach out to people with His word.

Perhaps you shouldn't limit what God can do through you?

We can't save anyone, only God can do that.

/

 

[O'Darby]

Can it be proved scientifically? He doesn't accept philosophical arguments.

/

Well, he will only know if it can be proved scientifically if, as I suggested, he investigates the possibilities. No answer to the ultimate metaphysical questions, be it atheism or theism, can be "proved scientifically," especially if one defines "science" in a manner that excludes all possibilities other than materialism. A more sincere seeker is likely to find that multiple disciplines of science point in the direction of theism. Oddly, I happened to post a lengthy blog entry this morning that deals with this very subject:

What I Learned From the Atheists

Lessons from a decade of dialoguing with internet atheists.

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Phil .]

Is that absolutely true?

What’s that.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Perhaps you shouldn't limit what God can do through you?

We can't save anyone, only God can do that.

/

I'm open to anything that God has for me personally. That's all I live for.

But what I'm saying is that God's "word" is the vehicle through which He gets to know us. If someone rejects His word, they are rejecting Him. If they reject the Son they reject the Father also.

That's the Scriptures. When I refer to the "word" I'm speaking of God's verbalized word to our hearts. If we reject God's best efforts to reach our hearts with *Himself,* --if we reject that, then there is absolutely no hope for us! There has to be a point of no return, and this is, I think, it!

 

[Phil .]

Is that supposed to be helpful?

/

If the truth was helpful it wouldn’t be absolute.
And the truth is indeed absolute.

 

[Writer]

My agnostic friend acknowledges that some people need something, like religion, to help them get along in life.
He considers himself to be in the group that doesn't need something, like religion, to help him get along in life.

I think this is his polite way of saying, crutches are fine for those who need them, but he doesn't need one.
Ironically, he walks using a cane. - LOL

Humor aside, how would you respond? Why do we need a relationship with God?
Or, more to the point, why does he need a relationship with God? Remember, he is agnostic,
so appeals to the existence of God and the reliability of the Bible have little bearing.

He was raised Lutheran, baptized and confirmed in the church.
Stopped going to church at some point. Married a Catholic woman that was also estranged from the church.
Which ended in a nasty divorce which nearly destroyed my friend. I have been an important support for him.
He is now remarried to a Protestant Christian who is also estranged from the church, but has a relationship with God.

/ cc: @ChristisGod @mailmandan @Lizbeth @quietthinker @amadeus @David in NJ @Hillsage @Lambano @Peterlag @marks @1stCenturyLady @St. SteVen

If you put Jesus first and lift Him up, the Holy Spirit will make your agnostic friend need something he doesn't have.