My Scripture Can Beat Up Your Scripture

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi Mark,

No, I do not believe in the pre-existent Christ. Christ did not exist prior to His conception. The logos, or what I understand to be the plan of God, did. Since Jesus is the express image of God of course that plan is fully realized through him...grin.

The point of Jesus and moreover of the virgin birth is to show mankind in the strongest possible way that God desires to become one with His creation. What happened at the baptism of Jesus was that God filled him, the second Adam, as God had filled the first Adam. From then on you really could not distinguish where God started and Jesus left off. This is what God wants for each one of us, except that whereas Jesus was given the the fulness of His Spirit we are given the Spirit by measure. Christ is the first born of many brethren.

All this is true but may be a bit difficult to understand depending on where you are coming from. Suffice it to say that God just wishes to live His live through us.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[dragonfly]

Suffice it to say that God just wishes to live His live through us.

But without the lamb slain from the foundation of the world, this would not be possible. John 1:29

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Many other verses proclaim the same truth as John, in John 1:3.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;


Yep, your thread title is coming true.

 

[Rex]

Hi Mark,

No, I do not believe in the pre-existent Christ. Christ did not exist prior to His conception. The logos, or what I understand to be the plan of God, did. Since Jesus is the express image of God of course that plan is fully realized through him...grin.

So now that you have made such a statement when are you going to share with everyone the name of the church you mission for?
It should be very clear to most.
I find people that .......well let me just say ....If you confess me before men I shall also confess you before the Father but If you deny me before men I shall also deny you before the father. Now simply replace me, with the name of your church. Long story short If you're hiding your church then it really isn't worth talking about is it.

Another Question, who was it that Abraham called to Lord as he sat in the door of his tent, then fixed a meal for?
Gen 18:1

 

[mark s]

Hi Mark,

No, I do not believe in the pre-existent Christ. Christ did not exist prior to His conception. The logos, or what I understand to be the plan of God, did. Since Jesus is the express image of God of course that plan is fully realized through him...grin.

The point of Jesus and moreover of the virgin birth is to show mankind in the strongest possible way that God desires to become one with His creation. What happened at the baptism of Jesus was that God filled him, the second Adam, as God had filled the first Adam. From then on you really could not distinguish where God started and Jesus left off. This is what God wants for each one of us, except that whereas Jesus was given the the fulness of His Spirit we are given the Spirit by measure. Christ is the first born of many brethren.

All this is true but may be a bit difficult to understand depending on where you are coming from. Suffice it to say that God just wishes to live His live through us.

Blessings,

Justin

So then we believe in completely different Gods.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi Dragon,

The lamb slain from the foundation of the world is talking about what happened in the Garden when God clothed Adam and Eve with skins. That animal, most likely a sheep, was slain because from that time it was God's plan to give His only begotten Son as the perfect lamb sacrifice for the sins of the world.

I believe all things were made with Him in mind but not literally by him. He was not there at that point.

Made by Him? So you are saying that God said to Jesus before time began...Hey Son, could you go a make a universe for me?

Hi Rex,

You so want me to be a Mormon don't you. Really Joseph Smith was a false prophet and I would never follow anything He taught.

I believe in God who is our Father. I believe He is one God and there are no gods beside Him. I believe that Jesus was born from a union between God and Mary (i.e. seed was created and she became pregnant.) Jesus did not exist in any form before that time except in the plan of God through His fore knowledge. The Holy Spirit is not the third person of the trinity but is just God, who is a Spirit and who is Holy.

Jesus is now one with God to such an extent you cannot tell the two apart if you were to meet Him...which I all hope we do one day.

Hi Mark,

I don't think we do when it comes down to it. You are just a bit more mixed up as to His nature than I am. In reality, if you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind He accepts you.

 

[biggandyy]

No, Mark isn't mixed up, he's right in line with scripture.

 

[Rex]

Hi Dragon,

The lamb slain from the foundation of the world is talking about what happened in the Garden when God clothed Adam and Eve with skins. That animal, most likely a sheep, was slain because from that time it was God's plan to give His only begotten Son as the perfect lamb sacrifice for the sins of the world.

I believe all things were made with Him in mind but not literally by him. He was not there at that point.

Made by Him? So you are saying that God said to Jesus before time began...Hey Son, could you go a make a universe for me?
You so want me to be a Mormon don't you. Really Joseph Smith was a false prophet and I would never follow anything He taught.

It's looks like a duck and quacks like one.

Besides the obvious, Just who was it that Adam and Eve heard walking in the garden and hid from?
Gen 3:8-9

Now keep in mind the time times that Jesus said No man has seen the Father except the Son.
John 1:18

If no man has seen the Father just who was it that Adam hid from and Who visited Abraham, and who was Melchizedek

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi all,

The problem that people have when they are interpreting scripture is that they rely upon their own intellect and not upon the Spirit of God. This leads to all sorts of erroneous conclusions...like Jesus possibly walking in the Garden of Eden as the pre-existant Christ.

We have to begin to approach the study of scripture differently if we are ever to come to a knowledge of the truth. We need to stop figuring this out for ourselves and simply allow God to lift us out of our confusion to stand with Him on the mountain top of revelation.

Problem is that people are too used to eating of the the tree of good and they do not trust the tree of life.

Read more about this topic here - http://www.thefinalfeast.com/36-42/the-current-word-of-god/

 

[dragonfly]

The problem that people have when they are interpreting scripture is that they rely upon their own intellect and not upon the Spirit of God. This leads to all sorts of erroneous conclusions...like Jesus possibly walking in the Garden of Eden as the pre-existant Christ.

We have to begin to approach the study of scripture differently if we are ever to come to a knowledge of the truth. We need to stop figuring this out for ourselves and simply allow God to lift us out of our confusion to stand with Him on the mountain top of revelation.Problem is that people are too used to eating of the the tree of good and they do not trust the tree of life.Read more about this topic here - http://www.thefinalf...nt-word-of-god/

Your thesis is the 'figuring this out for ourselves', Justin. John 10:4, 5. Don't follow strangers.

We are indebted to God for giving utterance to men of old, who faithfully recorded what God had revealed of Himself and His names to them. And not only them, but to the Israelites who were the first Jewish Christians who understood the promises, and who knew the prophetic scriptures so well, they could see that Christ fulfilled them all.

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled... 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up to you of your brethren, like to me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord [Yahweh, (SNB)] always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

Matthew 16:16, Peter says, 'Thou art the MASHIYACH, the Son of the living EL'. Isaiah 9:6 '... the mighty EL...' [SNB]

Luke 10:18 And he said to them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews to him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Revelation 19:10 '... I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: John 1:13 but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

John 1613 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] to you.


The Sacred Name Bible opened my eyes to deeper truths than immediately communicate themselves better, than from a traditional rendering of God's names in English. It has been said that where English has no counterpart (both in Hebrew and Greek) it would have been better to leave the original language, and explain it properly to the flock. I've come to see the wisdom in that statement. Let me give you more of a taster....

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning ELOHIYM created the heaven and the earth.

[The only name of God in Gen 1 is Elohiym - thirty two times]

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that YHVH ELOHIYM made the earth and the heavens,

[Yahweh Elohiym begins in v 4 and continues as the only name throughout Gen 2.]

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YHVH our ELOHIYM is one YHVH:

Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, YHVH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of YHVH shall be saved.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O ELOHIYM, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

The Word was EL. The Word was made flesh. The Word was in the beginning with God.

Do you really have authority from God, to disagree with John's revelation? Or might your mind need to be renewed?

Have you ever counted how many times Paul says of Jesus Christ,something like this?

Colossians 1:15 - 17
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


I think you need to bring your thinking into line with the word of God, brother.

 

[Rex]

Hi all,

The problem that people have when they are interpreting scripture is that they rely upon their own intellect and not upon the Spirit of God. This leads to all sorts of erroneous conclusions...like Jesus possibly walking in the Garden of Eden as the pre-existant Christ.

We have to begin to approach the study of scripture differently if we are ever to come to a knowledge of the truth. We need to stop figuring this out for ourselves and simply allow God to lift us out of our confusion to stand with Him on the mountain top of revelation.

Problem is that people are too used to eating of the the tree of good and they do not trust the tree of life.

Read more about this topic here - http://www.thefinalf...nt-word-of-god/

It's a bit sad Justin, I really don't know who you think your kidding. Most people here have a solid understanding of scripture. As you spend more time here it becomes more and more evident that you at best have an elementary level of understanding. Yesterday you used Peter as an example of how people "christians" can be possessed by unclean spirits, well everyone that has been illuminated by the HS and has read and in part understood the bible knows at this point in Peters life the HS had not yet been given.

This gift / mark / seal / guarantee / teacher/ illuminating power/ which the Father promised threw Jesus, by accepting Jesus, is clearly absent in your writings and theology. I am genuinely concerned that this life, looks as though it completely absent, by faith I hope there is still/ a still small voice within your heart creating doubt and encouraging you consider your ways.
I hope you take a moment to listen

I looked your site over last week, I read your story about how you climbed the mountain and destroyed the local natives altar 60 or 70% of it anyway
Ramogi's mountain http://www.thefinalfeast.com/22-28/ramogis-mountain/ it's to bad that you didn't receive the word written with the finger of God

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Rex,

I know you want to do what is right in your heart. Legalism makes people believe they have the truth and then become angry that others don't share their views. The truth is bro, that no one has come to much of the truth yet and we are all dependent on God to illuminate our hearts and minds in the darkness in which we all dwell.

 

[Rex]

Like I mentioned in the polygamy thread
do as thou will...............................shall be the whole of the Law............Quote............Aleister Crowley (1875-1947)

here's the google link
http://tim.maroney.org/CrowleyIntro/Do_What_Thou_Wilt.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelema

Good luck with that

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Justin,

The truth is bro, that no one has come to much of the truth yet and we are all dependent on God to illuminate our hearts and minds in the darkness in which we all dwell.

This statement says a great deal more than you intended it to, I suspect. This is not the language of the New Testament.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:


Luke 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when [thine eye] is evil, thy body also [is] full of darkness. 35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness. 36 If thy whole body therefore [be] full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.


1 Thessalonians 2:11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father [doth] his children, 12 that ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you to his kingdom and glory.

13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually works also in you that believe.

 

[Risen Angel]

"My tongue is the pen of a ready writer." (Psalm 45:1)

Who says only Paul can write letters?

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7)

Three are one. Once concept; three aspects.

Studying the sriptures is a very important aspect of communicating with other people. With no common ground to stand on we would simply be trying to stay motionless on shifting sands. The scriptures give us a way to search for. The word can speak in a way that nothing else can. This particular book is unlike any other that I have read. It comes alive in ways that are not possible, without God.

These words that we are standing upon have been translated and then obliterated by never ending renditions.

Yet they speak to me like no other book.

Perhaps it is because the words were written by a spiritual being; and, my spirit responds to the text.

When I am writing here at night and I place a scripture reference into my post, I am listening to the word speaking inside of me. I hear the voice clearly and I am long past the time of doubting its existence or relevance to my life. When the voice speaks, I listen.

Not all hear, so I reach for the ground common to us all: and I allow God to speak for himself (in the accepted form).

Scripture.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Risen,

I would like to hear your testimony if you care to share it.

blessings,

Justin

 

[Rex]

"My tongue is the pen of a ready writer." (Psalm 45:1)

Who says only Paul can write letters?

Speak wisely Risen Angel he tempting you, he wishes to stumble you, then praise your folly.
He wishes you to go where hes is, beyond that which is written.
An invitation to eat with him at his table.

Romans 12:2-3
Please read all of it

 

[Butch5]

Rex,

I know you want to do what is right in your heart. Legalism makes people believe they have the truth and then become angry that others don't share their views. The truth is bro, that no one has come to much of the truth yet and we are all dependent on God to illuminate our hearts and minds in the darkness in which we all dwell.

Can you define legalism?

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Legalism is law without heart

Dear all,

I really don't disagree with anything the Bible says. I do disagree with much of what others say it says though. Dragon, you are into the Greek. Look up the meaning in the Greek of the "by Him" means and let me know what you find.

Rex, I feel your pity. I want you to know that every time your attack me personally for beliefs I share with others here on this forum it makes me want to change my views and aligned with the true word of God exactly as you explain it.

One other comment if I may,

How is it possible that the very nation God brought into existence did not accept His only begotten Son when He came to them? How is it possible the Pharisees, Sadducees, scribes, lawyers ...basically everyone who was anyone in the religious establishment did not see the truth of what the Son of God spoke? After all, He backed up everything He said with scriptures? He did signs and wonders among them.

Moreover, do any of us think that we, being gentiles, are more learned in the word than the teachers of Israel? Yet, most of them rejected the Messiah and His teachings based on what they thought were strong scriptural grounds. It is just possible that they could not see what the Son of God was speaking to them because their hearts and thus their minds were darkened through pride and jealousy?

Those who wish to gnash on these teachings with their teeth are surely free to do so. No one will stop you in fact many might applaud you. However, some will read and question. Some will ask, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" These are the people that the Holy Spirit is looking for. These are those he will teach wisdom and show them the truth of His word.

In the end it only took twelve to change the whole world. My aims are much more modest.

 

[Rex]

And what is your point Justin?
It's clear you don't include the word in your diet, sorry you find it to abrasive.
Matthew 4:4

You being such a modest man I can't help but notice your picture, you've been eating something.

I don't believe its the word of God, in fact it's in contrast

 

[THE Gypsy]

....One other comment if I may,

How is it possible that the very nation God brought into existence did not accept His only begotten Son when He came to them? How is it possible the Pharisees, Sadducees, scribes, lawyers ...basically everyone who was anyone in the religious establishment did not see the truth of what the Son of God spoke? After all, He backed up everything He said with scriptures? He did signs and wonders among them.

Moreover, do any of us think that we, being gentiles, are more learned in the word than the teachers of Israel? Yet, most of them rejected the Messiah and His teachings based on what they thought were strong scriptural grounds. It is just possible that they could not see what the Son of God was speaking to them because their hearts and thus their minds were darkened through pride and jealousy?

Those who wish to gnash on these teachings with their teeth are surely free to do so. No one will stop you in fact many might applaud you. However, some will read and question. Some will ask, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" These are the people that the Holy Spirit is looking for. These are those he will teach wisdom and show them the truth of His word.

In the end it only took twelve to change the whole world. My aims are much more modest.

That is more than a "comment"' it is a series of questions. Something that is not clear... Are they rhetorical or are you looking for answers to them?