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Nephilim the sons of God?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Bope, Apr 16, 2006.

  1. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Now, where do you see that the "Kenites" were part or included in the above generation?
    Number one, the verses you give above prove nothing about what you're trying to say. Notice the lack of an ending to the line. Why? Because they still persist at this point and continue to do so to this day.Once again, show me a verse that says Kenites are not the line of Cain. You cannot do it. Kenite itself is clearly of the line of Cain for anyone whole will take the time to do the Biblical research and listen to the Bible.Again, you continue to deny the very word of Our Father.Genesis 4:20And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.All those that dwell in tents just suddenly dissappeared, right?
    Perhaps, what you failed to understand is that -- Jesus is the SOURCE of "THE" quickening Spirit and could not have been made a quickening spirit - because in him is the life giving Spirit.
    Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.I Corinthians 15:45-47And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    2 pillarsAre you sure you are reading the same book we are?
     
  3. 2Pillars

    2Pillars New Member

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    (SwampFox)
    Number one, the verses you give above prove nothing about what you're trying to say. Notice the lack of an ending to the line. Why? Because they still persist at this point and continue to do so to this day.Once again, show me a verse that says Kenites are not the line of Cain. You cannot do it. Kenite itself is clearly of the line of Cain for anyone whole will take the time to do the Biblical research and listen to the Bible.Again, you continue to deny the very word of Our Father.
    Dear SF,I have diligently answered your question, but you continue to ask it, while refusing to answer mine. If you don't even know what Day it is, how can you expect me to believe you have enough sense to understand my answers?Either show us where you can contextually prove clearly that the "Kenites" were part of Cain' generation literally or everybody will see that you're just whistling the wind.Therefore, I refuse to to reduce myself to this kind of word game tactical maneuvering that you're trying to employ.Btw, please do not project your own weaknesses on me. ThanksGOd Bless
     
  4. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    This is the point that I will indeed walk away from this thread, it has fallen apart into nothing but bickering. Speak for yourself about dodging the questions (let's back up to your bringing in the Seth discussion for no real reason amongst others and saying stuff that you've never seen me say). Your argument has failed when you try to pin this back on me. I've supported what I've said with scripture and you continue to jump around after I do so. Most of my previous questions remained unanswered to this point and I invite those reading this thread to check this out. I have nothing more to say, my Kenite answer was contained above. Look up the Hebrew and check out the root of the word of this group that inhabited the land of Canaan (so called for a reason). This word is in the Bible, it's not mine. It's God's.One more point I will make, is that if this is indeed a metaphor, there will be an explanation for it somewhere in the Bible as to what it means. There is none. I am positive on that.
     
  5. 2Pillars

    2Pillars New Member

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    (SwampFox)
    This is the point that I will indeed walk away from this thread, it has fallen apart into nothing but bickering. Speak for yourself about dodging the questions (let's back up to your bringing in the Seth discussion for no real reason amongst others and saying stuff that you've never seen me say). Your argument has failed when you try to pin this back on me. I've supported what I've said with scripture and you continue to jump around after I do so.
    No you were just posting your own religious ASSUMPTION. Everybody here now realize that you're just whistling in the wind. (SwampFox)
    Most of my previous questions remained unanswered to this point and I invite those reading this thread to check this out. I have nothing more to say, my Kenite answer was contained above. Look up the Hebrew and check out the root of the word of this group that inhabited the land of Canaan (so called for a reason). This word is in the Bible, it's not mine. It's God's.
    Here's your test to prove your case...There were only eight (8) souls saved from the flood - which one do you think was a descendant of Cain? Scripture please...[​IMG] (SwampFox)
    One more point I will make, is that if this is indeed a metaphor, there will be an explanation for it somewhere in the Bible as to what it means. There is none. I am positive on that.
    Of course, contrary to your assumption, there are explanations in the Scripture relevant to that particular issue about Cain' descendants (metaphor) in the New Testament!!! Do you want Scripture for your additional reference? Let me know. [​IMG]
     
  6. 2Pillars

    2Pillars New Member

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    (kriss)
    2 pillarsAre you sure you are reading the same book we are?
    I am using KJV - Old English. I don't know about you? Is there anything you wish to refute, kriss? Or is there anything that you don't understand about my post? Please let me know so that I can further explain it you. Thanks.God Bless
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I know my book shows the kenites are in the line of cain no argument just facta little understanding of hebrew and knowing how to follow the subject there is no fact to prove otherwise there is nothing to argue you are wrong in your assumption
     
  8. 2Pillars

    2Pillars New Member

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    ha ha ha... Then tell us who among the eight souls saved from the flood was a descendant of Cain, using the Scripture if though can tell. [​IMG] I guess, you must be using another book not the Bible. :naughty:
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    where did the second influx of nephiliem come from? I did not get my opioionof this from swampfox I was taught this years ago but it dosent surprise meyou dont understand it yet you have to have more than a casual knowlegeto understand that its part of the hidden key of David and when you get your teeth futher into the meat of Gods word (because it is a growing living word)a begin to understand the whole of it you cant understand keep learning youll get there God bless
     
  10. 2Pillars

    2Pillars New Member

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    See, I thought so. Your church assumption is only based on wild imagination.Oh well.... If you are that gulliable, then I have some prime swamp land that I am sure you would be interested in seeing. Cain's descendants were a dead end. After some 1620 years, they were all destroyed in the Flood. Today's Humans can trace their origin to Adam through Seth. God called Adam and Eve's name "Adam" (Hebrew-mankind) in the Day they were created in God's Image. Gen 5:2God Bless
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Its not any church assumption .it is the wisdom God has laid on my heart you dont understand it because you havent received it I would suggest you tone down your arogant attitute that you alone understand the mystery of God his word and works it will only make you path harder. I will no longer debate this with you It was my duty according to Gods word to plant the seed of truth its your choice wether you allow God to make it grow there fore to argue just for the sake of argueing is a waste of my time God has other work for me to do.Believe what you like as for me I chose to listen to what God has put upon my heart. best of luck to you
     
  12. 2Pillars

    2Pillars New Member

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    (SwampFox)
    Most of my previous questions remained unanswered to this point and I invite those reading this thread to check this out. I have nothing more to say, my Kenite answer was contained above. Look up the Hebrew and check out the root of the word of this group that inhabited the land of Canaan (so called for a reason). This word is in the Bible, it's not mine. It's God's.
    (2Pillars)
    Here's your test to prove your case...There were only eight (8) souls saved from the flood - which one do you think was a descendant of Cain? Scripture please...[​IMG]
    (SwampFox)
    One more point I will make, is that if this is indeed a metaphor, there will be an explanation for it somewhere in the Bible as to what it means. There is none. I am positive on that.
    Dear SF,Just so you know, here’s a text where Cain, the devil (metaphor) , is alluded to be the father of the Jews & Pharisees who were seeking to kill Jesus – contrary to your view above.John 8 44 Ye are of your father (Cain) the devil (metaphor), and the lusts of your father ye will do. He (Cain) was a MURDERER from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.Now, let me know if you disagree with my analogy of the cited text -- as a metaphor/simile of the work of Cain and his descendants -- before the flood.God Bless
     
  13. 2Pillars

    2Pillars New Member

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    (kriss)
    where did the second influx of nephiliem come from? God bless
    Dear kriss,Forget about the theory of the "nephiliem":rolleyes: simply because, they are only product of wild imagination of those who cannot support their view with Scripture. As I have posted before, MACRO EVOLUTION is a lie. No two different kind of "species" ("fallen angel"/nephilim & human) can produce offspring together. The Bible is very clear, they are confined to their own kind (see my previous post).To answer your question, here's the the real story of the "sons of God" as documented in the book of Genesis. Gen. 6:1-5 shows the sons of God (mankind or prehistoric beings) married the daughter of man (Adam), and their offspring became MIGHTY MEN of old. These men inherited the Human Intelligence of Adam, but were wicked, and unbelieving. Their violent nature caused the destruction of their world. Gen. 6:13 Gen. 6:4 calls these men GIANTS and MIGHTY MEN of old - 1st world -- and the text also indicates that this union between them and Adam's descendants, would happen again...."AND ALSO AFTER THAT"... is prophecy that the sons of God and the descendants of Adam would also unite here on earth, after their first union of their former world. Gen. 10:8 fulfills the prophecy of Gen. 6:4 after Noah arrived on this planet and Cush marries a woman whose ancestors originated in the water. Cush, like Cain, had No one to marry, except the the prehistoric beings or mankind created on the 5th day. Gen. 10:8“And Cush begat Nimrod: HE BEGAN TO BE MIGHTY ONE ON THIS EARTH. The result of this union produced Nimrod, who built the 1st Cities of this Earth. History agrees. The DNA within all Humans confirms that we descended from a prehistoric woman, who lived some 150,000 years ago. The Human Intelligence we possess was inherited from Adam. The final result of the mixing of Adam's descendants and prehistoric man ALSO produced violent, unbelieving humans of today, and doomed this present world to destruction, as well. ll Peter 3:10God Bless
     
  14. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Just so you know, here’s a text where Cain, the devil (metaphor) , is alluded to be the father of the Jews & Pharisees who were seeking to kill Jesus – contrary to your view above. John 8 44 Ye are of your father (Cain) the devil (metaphor), and the lusts of your father ye will do. He (Cain) was a MURDERER from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Now, let me know if you disagree with my analogy of the cited text -- as a metaphor/simile of the work of Cain and his descendants -- before the flood.
    You are very confused my friend, that's the only way to put it. The devil of the verse is not Cain unless you want to argue that somehow Cain himself was the devil. I point out that what you posted is nothing shy of utter perversion of God's Word for your own ends by inserting the word Cain which does not appear in the Bible. Cain is of the devil's seed, but he is not the devil.Cain's line persists to this day, and since we've moved into the New Testament arena, take a look at the parables of the seeds in Matthew 13. You'll notice the Greek translation renders seed the Greek word "sperma" and this is for a very important reason. The mind should rather quickly draw the similarities to our word "sperm" because this is talking about an actual line which runs down from Cain, called the Kenites. There's no metaphor about it when you understand what God has given us right there in the Bible.Again, it says every flesh in the story of Noah's Ark.Genesis 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.This verse clearly identifies men as flesh so you don't have to take my word for it.Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
    Forget about the theory of the "nephiliem":rolleyes: simply because, they are only product of wild imagination of those who cannot support their view with Scripture.
    Well then apparently this original Hebrew word that appears in Genesis 6:4 and is rendered "giant" in the KJV is wrong then; so I guess that means God made a mistake along the way, right? Your continued denial of what is written there in the Bible simply astounds me.
    Gen. 6:4 calls these men GIANTS and MIGHTY MEN of old - 1st world -- and the text also indicates that this union between them and Adam's descendants, would happen again...."AND ALSO AFTER THAT"... is prophecy that the sons of God and the descendants of Adam would also unite here on earth, after their first union of their former world.
    Prophecy?! Since when is the word "saw" used to denote something that is yet to happen? This isn't prophecy as you'll also note with the use of the phrase "And it came to pass..." to open Genesis 6:1. This is a play-by-play account of what happened, not some prophetical scripture. Quite clearly, the phrase "and also after that" is applied to the giants which were the actual Nephilim and then their offspring which were also giant in stature.
     
  15. bac2nowere

    bac2nowere New Member

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    Several years ago, after hearing this passage and the comment that angels and humans had offspring, I ask a few pastors and read all the commentary on this I could find. The following is what I learned which resulted in me disagreeing with the statement that angels & humans have offspring.Genesis6:1-4 Sons of God refers to the godly line of Seth, which intermarried with daughters of men, the ungodly line of cain. While the term "son of God" refers to angels in some passages (ex. Job 1:6) this is certainly not the case here. Jesus clearly taught angels do not "marry or give in marriage" Matt. 22:30, Mark 12:25 Nephilim (some translations giants, fallen ones, ): When the Istraelites saw the Anakim they concluded they had seen " the nephilim" (Numbers 13.33). "Mighty Men" or warriors. Note in verse 11 of this Chapter that there earth was filled with violence. " Mwn of renown" were literally men of a name. In Genesis 11:4 reputaion or name is used in a gerogatory sense, contrasted with God's giving Abram a good "name" Genesis 12:2."Mighty one" is used of Nimrod on a negative sense in Genesis 10:8-10. These giants already existed on earth and were not the offspring of the marriages mentioned.The following is from the New Illlustraion Bible Dictionary Some scholars believe the Nephilim were descended from famous rulers, outstanding leaders, and mighty warriors who lived before the Flood. These men, so the theory goes, gathered great harems and were guilty of the sin of polygamy. The Nephilim were the product of these marriages.GIANTS — human beings of abnormal size and strength. Races of giants are first mentioned in the Old Testament in Genesis 6:4, where giant godlike beings were produced by the union of “the sons of God” and “the daughters of men.” These abnormal unions displeased God (Gen. 6:5–6). The giants, or Nephilim, became “mighty men . . . men of renown,” perhaps a reference to their tremendous height.Rephaim were primitive giants who lived in Canaan, Edom, Moab, and Ammon. They were also known as Emim (Deut. 2:11) and Zamzummim (Deut. 2:20). King Og of Bashan (Deut. 3:11) was the last of these giants. His iron bed was 9 cubits long and 4 cubits wide (about 13 feet by 6 feet).When Moses sent 12 men to spy out the land of Canaan, they returned with the frightening report that they saw “giants” who made them feel like “grasshoppers” (Num. 13:33). These giants were descendants of Anak, “a people great and tall” (Deut. 9:2). This negative report by 10 of the spies caused the children of Israel to spend a night in murmuring and weeping. Only Joshua and Caleb urged the people to claim the land (Num. 14:38).Goliath is the most famous giant in the Bible (1 Sam. 17:4), measuring six cubits and a span, which is more than three meters (nine feet) tall. Goliath taunted the Israelites and demanded a warrior to meet him in combat. David, the shepherd boy, with his sling and stone, dared to accept the challenge of the Philistine giant in full armor because he knew that God would direct him in the battle (1 Sam. 17:45). David’s stone struck Goliath in the forehead, and Goliath fell facedown. David then cut off the giant’s head, and the Philistines were put to flight (1 Sam. 17:49, 51).Youngblood, R. F. 1995. Nelson's new illustrated Bible dictionary. Rev. ed. of: Nelson's illustrated Bible dictionary.;Includes index. T. Nelson: NashvillePhp 3:14 I press toward the GOAL for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Love in Christ
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    . Jesus clearly taught angels do not "marry or give in marriage" Matt. 22:30, Mark 12:25 Nephilim exactly right ,this is why it was aboination it was the reason for the flood why God had to destroy mankind it had become pulluted with hybrids of Nephilium and daughters of men if you look at the hebrew it will tell you Noahs line was the only pure (undefiled by the nephilum)line left thus the flood.Just as matter of interest you might closely look at the verses (sorry I cant remember the exact one right now) where just before joshsa invades the cannites he sends spys to case them out.Closley read the discription of what they report back to Joshsa among other things how large the grapes were.These were not just ex-large normal people.This sites goal is just lay out the bible in a way that anyone can easily understand Gods word and prove it themselves so that you wont have to trust what any man including us says just stay around give us some time and feel free to question debate anything you like.All we ask is that you keep open mind and not stoop to insults and name calling. glad to have you on the boardsGod Blesskriss
     
  17. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Happy to see you post bac2nowere! Welcome to CB!I have to say that you have to look at the context of Genesis 6 here. Notice that the word man is used here seperate from the use of the word man or men found multiple times in this chapter.Genesis 6:9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.We all agree here that Noah was of the line of Adam and therefore would have been labeled Son of God if that were the meaning of this passage. It's very fair to conclude that "Son of God" is reffering to the members of the heavenly court (angels) here and not of the line of Adam through Seth.I'll make a quick point here that nephilim is a a word which means giant in Hebrew, hence the reason why some render it giant. However, I will say that the angels did break the commandment of God and took the daughters of men as their wives and so on; just as Satan himself rebelled from God.Those that accept Jesus Christ and enter into the kingdom will not rebel and there will be no marriage because there are no females once we reach there. I said this before, check the appearences and descriptions of all of the angels of God, none of them are female. The simple fact here is that these fallen angels are fallen in the sense that they fell to temptation. Once Christ returns and Satan and those that follow him are put away, there will be no more sin.Satan himself is an angel as 2 Corinthians 11:14 tells us, but he is no longer and Angel of the Lord as those in Matthew 22:30 are. Context is key, and you need nothing more than your own reading and God's assistance for that. I'm glad you've researched this, but you've been told wrong along the way.Now, getting to the name thing. Pick up your Strong's if you have one. If you do not, then I'd advise getting one. It's one of the best tools a non Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek scholar can have.The might men of old and renown reference you make is interesting, but you have to look at it in the given context. These refer specifically to these men that were known for their strength and fighting ability. Clearly we have the mention of a giant race of men yet this is the first time that we see it. If the Bible makes this point here for the first time, then we should read the context of the verse to understand what happened.
     
  18. bac2nowere

    bac2nowere New Member

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    Thanks for the welcomes. It is great to be apart of CB. I do have a strongs alone with several other books whether it is on software or hard copy of help. I bring this up because I also like to read commentaries and other types of study. One in which I found through a link at Probe Ministries (www.probe.org). The actual article is from www.bible.org the article link is( http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=67 ). This article is written by Bob Deffinbaugh , Th.M. This article is titled The Sons of God and the Daughters of Men (Genesis 6:1-8)I thought it was an excellent article. It gives three of the major views on this passage which makes a convincing case for the view like Swampfox holds. Please read the article and let me know your thoughts."But as for me and my HOUSE, we will serve the Lord." Joshua 24:15b
     
  19. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    It's truly great to have you.I like the article and I think it does the job of presenting all of the fronts very fairly and makes a strong case for what I deeply believe about this passage.I think it does a good job about pointing out the nature of Angels as well. We are told in Genesis that God created man in our likeness and this is why angels are often characterized as both angels and men as we see later in Genesis 18.Genesis 181 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.This is talking about Abraham seeing three angels (called men here because that's what they looked like). One could easily see from this that physically they looked like men and you almost must assume they have similar anatomy. It's also clear here that one of the Angels is the actual Angel of the Lord (Elohim) himself yet he too appears as a human in likeness which is absolutely fascinating. Abraham prepares them human food to eat as well and I truly doubt this trouble would gone to unless they would partake of the food (the angels).Pretty amazing stuff there.
     
  20. 2Pillars

    2Pillars New Member

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    (2Pillars)
    Dear SF,Just so you know, here’s a text where Cain, the devil (metaphor) , is alluded to be the father of the Jews & Pharisees who were seeking to kill Jesus – contrary to your view above.John 8 44 Ye are of your father (Cain) the devil (metaphor), and the lusts of your father ye will do. He (Cain) was a MURDERER from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.Now, let me know if you disagree with my analogy of the cited text -- as a metaphor/simile of the work of Cain and his descendants -- before the flood.
    (SwampFox)
    You are very confused my friend, that's the only way to put it. The devil of the verse is not Cain unless you want to argue that somehow Cain himself was the devil. I point out that what you posted is nothing shy of utter perversion of God's Word for your own ends by inserting the word Cain which does not appear in the Bible. Cain is of the devil's seed, but he is not the devil.
    Dear SF,Based on your reading coomprehension and assumption of my post above, either you don't really know the meaning of the word "metaphor" or your knowledge is becoming foolish as prophecied in the Scripture, which one?[​IMG]Who is making an assumption that Cain was actually "the devil" LITERALLY speaking -the father of the Jews - except you and your church correct?[​IMG]Now, as documented in the Scripture, Cain's generations did not survive the flood. No where in the Scripture come close to your flawed religious stand and you can NOT prove it scripturally. However, as a SIMILE (assuming you know the meaning of the word), it is the WORK of Cain that has survived. Read and Learn....1John 310 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
     
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