Never Guilty—Never Disappointed

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Netchaplain

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A believer can be discouraged or dissatisfied but does not have to be disappointed, cast upon hardness but not cast down, intentionally offended but not offended, heartbroken but joyous in Christ.

The access to disappointment is dependence on self or others but dependence on God never disappoints. If we depend on His Word that, “All things work together for good to those who love God” (Rom 8:28), there cannot exist a justifiable disappointment for the believer?

If we depend on His Word that the believer is completely cleared and guilt-free of sin’s eternal curse of damnation, which is the greatest of grace’s gifts because it allows eternal fellowship with Him, we are entirely fictional in finding disappointment.
Discouragement and self-disappointment is expected during the “babe in Christ” stages, but during the maturing stages (which has no pinnacle) one finally learns that everything that is desired, even in the disruption and distraction of the “old man,” ultimately results in, “to will and to do of His good pleasure,” because He, “works in you” this overall (Phil 2:13).

We can and should be dissatisfied with our “old man” when we encounter its workings from self and others, but we never need to allow disappointment (which is faith-building), considering that God not only foreknows all our occurrences but also foreknows that our ultimate desire in them is to please Him.

Can the believer truly incur any type of real guilt (not even self-induced, which would be nonexistent) on the conscience of his person when affected by the “old man,” considering God has, regardless of any situation, already declared innocence on him (but not on the old man, for sin is never forgiven when condemned—Rom 8:3)?

The believer’s overriding contemplation, esp. in the most heartbroken of times, can be his guiltless condition in which the Father, through His Son, our Lord Jesus has placed him and this alone can allow freedom from over-expecting more from self than what God expects; yea, which He also foreknows and thus is never condemning but chastising, loving and instructional.
 

Episkopos

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A balanced view of the bible sees that God is BOTH good AND severe in His judgments. Have Christians gone beyond the reach of God's severity and can now only enjoy His goodness?

Well this position is foolishness.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Being highminded IS foolishness. To consider that all is ok forever now because you have accepted some truth doesn't make you immune for what you do in the body.

We need to fear...not be highminded and smug. In that way we can avoid the error of the original people who thought God would never reject them either.


Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

God has no favourites. He is looking for fruit! Fear the Lord and depart from wickedness...surrender to the Lord and be a vessel in His service. THEN you may find a place in His kingdom.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

God has BOTH attributes. Paul is warning us Gentiles to not be foolish. Remember the 10 virgins. What happened to the foolish ones?

So be zealous and become wise. God is not partial in judgment. He is IMpartial. We need to win through faith what others think they possess already. Run to win!!!
 
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williemac

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Episkopos said:
A balanced view of the bible sees that God is BOTH good AND severe in His judgments. Have Christians gone beyond the reach of God's severity and can now only enjoy His goodness?

Well this position is foolishness.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Being highminded IS foolishness. To consider that all is ok forever now because you have accepted some truth doesn't make you immune for what you do in the body.

We need to fear...not be highminded and smug. In that way we can avoid the error of the original people who thought God would never reject them either.


Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

God has no favourites. He is looking for fruit! Fear the Lord and depart from wickedness...surrender to the Lord and be a vessel in His service. THEN you may find a place in His kingdom.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

God has BOTH attributes. Paul is warning us Gentiles to not be foolish. Remember the 10 virgins. What happened to the foolish ones?

So be zealous and become wise. God is not partial in judgment. He is IMpartial. We need to win through faith what others think they possess already. Run to win!!!
Because of unbelief they were cut off. Remember Paul's exhortation to the Galatians? They attempted to be justified by the law and therefore had fallen from grace. We are justified by faith. They were cut off by unbelief.

Thinking that one is justified through his effort to abide in Christ in order to not sin...that is a form of unbelief. We are not justified by not sinning. If one does not believe this, then this one is in unbelief. If we are justified by not sinning, then Jesus died in vain. 1John 2:1 says if we do sin (which we should not), we have an advocate with the Father. The One sacrifice was for the remission. Where there is remission, there is no longer an offering. It is done. It is finished. Justification is finished. It is not sustained by our effort to not sin. It is sustained by the sacrifice. His goodness is seen at Calvary. (God so loved the world). To continue in His goodness is to remain at Calvary, for justification. By faith. Believe it or not.
 

Episkopos

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williemac said:
Because of unbelief they were cut off. Remember Paul's exhortation to the Galatians? They attempted to be justified by the law and therefore had fallen from grace. We are justified by faith. They were cut off by unbelief.

Thinking that one is justified through his effort to abide in Christ in order to not sin...that is a form of unbelief. We are not justified by not sinning. If one does not believe this, then this one is in unbelief. If we are justified by not sinning, then Jesus died in vain. 1John 2:1 says if we do sin (which we should not), we have an advocate with the Father. The One sacrifice was for the remission. Where there is remission, there is no longer an offering. It is done. It is finished. Justification is finished. It is not sustained by our effort to not sin. It is sustained by the sacrifice. His goodness is seen at Calvary. (God so loved the world). To continue in His goodness is to remain at Calvary, for justification. By faith. Believe it or not.

It is by faith that we overcome all things!!! Unbelief remains defeated.

1Jn_5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
 

williemac

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Episkopos said:
It is by faith that we overcome all things!!! Unbelief remains defeated.

1Jn_5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Exactly. So why are you talking about being cut off by sin? Sin is not the equivalent to unbelief.

Your comment from another thread;; "

So then if you cannot walk in victory over sin with the power that God gives you...then how will you walk before a God who does not tolerate sin?

God took His intolerance to Calvary. He judged sin in the flesh of His Son. Justice was satisfied by Jesus, NEVER by us. We do not save ourselves. Our old man is dead, crucified with Christ. Sin in our life is attributed to a dead man, who has already paid the price by proxy with Christ on the cross.

If He did not allow for our sin, then He would not have allowed for, or promised, to chasten us. Children are chastened. Unbelievers are judged. Believers are exempt from judgment (John5:24)

Our victory over sin (in His power) is not what justifies us. His victory justifies. Our faith in Him and His work and sacrifice on our behalf, is what He desires. That is what He justifies.
 

Netchaplain

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Episkopos said:
It is by faith that we overcome all things!!! Unbelief remains defeated.

1Jn_5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
I'm thankful for the posts I've been seeing in this thread. It's void of malice between differences and it appears everyone is just wanting to share what they believe is truth, instead of attempting to just be convincing of their belief's.

With that said my mornings reply is to add that it's not our faith in what we do that overcomes (which I believe all here agree), it's faith in what has been done by Christ on the Cross that has and continues to overcome in the believer. Faith does not do the actual work of overcoming but is the required instrument (through) for the working (by) of grace, which has overcome.

The forefront of our "wrestling" (Eph 6:2) is the Spirit desiring "against the flesh" and it is He who does the work of overcoming our sinful nature (Gal 5:17); just as it is not by faith we are saved, but "through faith" (Eph 2:8) as the medium and "by grace" which is the work. The believer cannot produce within himself saving grace but can only receive it, then the Spirit causes him to live by it.

The significance in the knowledge and visibility of our good works is never a cause as to what the Father will do in our lives, He already has that all arranged. The only result our good works produce, by being known and seen, is the glorifying of "your Father which is in heaven" (Matt 5:16), just as the absence of good works reveals the absence of faith (Jam 2:17).
 

Episkopos

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williemac said:
Exactly. So why are you talking about being cut off by sin? Sin is not the equivalent to unbelief.

Your comment from another thread;; "

So then if you cannot walk in victory over sin with the power that God gives you...then how will you walk before a God who does not tolerate sin?

God took His intolerance to Calvary. He judged sin in the flesh of His Son. Justice was satisfied by Jesus, NEVER by us. We do not save ourselves. Our old man is dead, crucified with Christ. Sin in our life is attributed to a dead man, who has already paid the price by proxy with Christ on the cross.

If He did not allow for our sin, then He would not have allowed for, or promised, to chasten us. Children are chastened. Unbelievers are judged. Believers are exempt from judgment (John5:24)

Our victory over sin (in His power) is not what justifies us. His victory justifies. Our faith in Him and His work and sacrifice on our behalf, is what He desires. That is what He justifies.

You are thinking like a natural man. Our victory is to walk in Him and His victory.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


He doesn't overcome instead of us....we overcome by walking in His power and performing like Him.
 
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Netchaplain

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Episkopos said:
He doesn't overcome instead of us....we overcome by walking in His power and performing like Him.
Episkopos - I chose this to comment on because it is very close to presenting the issue.

Our walking in His power is actually by Him personally through the Spirit because it His life, which now "is our life" - Col 3:4, that produces continuous victory. Our walk is the evidence and not the source of our victory, because the victory is by Him--through us--not by us.
 
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Episkopos

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NetChaplain said:
Episkopos - I chose this to comment on because it is very close to presenting the issue.

Our walking in His power is actually by Him personally through the Spirit because it His life, which now "is our life" - Col 3:4, that produces continuous victory. Our walk is the evidence and not the source of our victory, because the victory is by Him--through us--not by us.
See! We do agree sometimes...and this is a very important point as I'm sure you know!!!!

Blessings! and reps!!!!
 

Netchaplain

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Episkopos said:
See! We do agree sometimes...and this is a very important point as I'm sure you know!!!!

Blessings! and reps!!!!
Good to know and thanks for informing me!
 

williemac

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Episkopos said:
You are thinking like a natural man. Our victory is to walk in Him and His victory.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


He doesn't overcome instead of us....we overcome by walking in His power and performing like Him.
I am not thinking like a natural man. I am presenting what the bible states. In fact, it seems that you are in contradiction. On the one hand you agree that it is our faith that overcomes, then you go off into overcoming by our walk.

The subject of overcoming is not to be shoved into contexts in which it is not the subject. The bible does not work that way. Are we called to walk as Jesus walked? Yes. Is this the context of overcoming? No.

I can tell by your mention of commandments that you are implying that our obedience to moral law is what Jesus was talking about when He talked of overcoming. But then you confirmed it by your last comment, that we overcome by walking in His power.

I have no doubt that there is some things that are overcome by our walk in Christ. But this is not the context of 1John 5:4, nor the context of Rev.3:21. Faith is faith. Performance is performance.

In terms of our justification for life, it is by way of our acceptance of the work and sacrifice of Jesus. This is the faith that justifies.

In terms of our bearing fruit and our rewards on the judgment seat of Christ, our walk in His power is how that is accomplished.

You have erred by pulling the latter into the arena of justification for life.

Essentially, what you are presenting is that we are saved by works. Call it overcoming if you wish, but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

Here is the mentality that I am getting from your position. Correct me if I am mistaken. What you say is that by faith we were given the means and power to walk in His righteousness, so that we can therefore be justified by actually walking in His righteousness.
So in a round about way, this is how your feel we are justified by faith and how we overcome by faith.

If this is an accurate assessment of your position, then this is what I am disputing and correcting.

1John 3:23.." And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment"..
John 5:24..." Most assuredly I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me HAS EVERLASTING LIFE, and shall not come into judgment, BUT HAS PASSED FROM DEATH INTO LIFE.

I could just as easily say that we overcome by not wavering from this promise. If you recall, the Galatians wavered.

Hear what Gal.4:23,24 says..." But he who was of the bondwoman WAS BORN ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, and he of the freewoman THROUGH THE PROMISE, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants; the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar-"

Paul was correcting them for mixing the two covenants together. His terminology was clear. The covenant of the law is of the flesh. The mistake that Abraham made was that he failed at first to believe the promise, his wife being barren. So he by his own effort helped God by producing a son through the slave. This is the flesh trying to do what God said He would do.

Here is the promise to us: Life is a free gift. The flesh has the temptation to assist God in fulfilling this promise. We need to overcome this temptation. Our works in the flesh do not assist God in any way in fulfilling His promise. Having begun in the Spirit are we so foolish as to think we are made perfect by the flesh? (by the works of law) Are we made perfect by works of any kind?

Whatever purpose our walk and our works have, one thing that is not included is the purpose of keeping or attaining everlasting life ( in other words, justification) We are to overcome the temptation to bring our works into the arena of justification for life. When we take God at His word, we glorify Him by our trust in Him. This is faith.
(But then, if one thinks that God is telling him to be justified by his works, then has he heard from God?) Faith comes by hearing. What are we hearing?
 

Episkopos

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williemac said:
I am not thinking like a natural man. I am presenting what the bible states. In fact, it seems that you are in contradiction. On the one hand you agree that it is our faith that overcomes, then you go off into overcoming by our walk.

The subject of overcoming is not to be shoved into contexts in which it is not the subject. The bible does not work that way. Are we called to walk as Jesus walked? Yes. Is this the context of overcoming? No.

I can tell by your mention of commandments that you are implying that our obedience to moral law is what Jesus was talking about when He talked of overcoming. But then you confirmed it by your last comment, that we overcome by walking in His power.

I have no doubt that there is some things that are overcome by our walk in Christ. But this is not the context of 1John 5:4, nor the context of Rev.3:21. Faith is faith. Performance is performance.

In terms of our justification for life, it is by way of our acceptance of the work and sacrifice of Jesus. This is the faith that justifies.

In terms of our bearing fruit and our rewards on the judgment seat of Christ, our walk in His power is how that is accomplished.

You have erred by pulling the latter into the arena of justification for life.

Essentially, what you are presenting is that we are saved by works. Call it overcoming if you wish, but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

Here is the mentality that I am getting from your position. Correct me if I am mistaken. What you say is that by faith we were given the means and power to walk in His righteousness, so that we can therefore be justified by actually walking in His righteousness.
So in a round about way, this is how your feel we are justified by faith and how we overcome by faith.

If this is an accurate assessment of your position, then this is what I am disputing and correcting.

1John 3:23.." And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment"..
John 5:24..." Most assuredly I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me HAS EVERLASTING LIFE, and shall not come into judgment, BUT HAS PASSED FROM DEATH INTO LIFE.

I could just as easily say that we overcome by not wavering from this promise. If you recall, the Galatians wavered.

Hear what Gal.4:23,24 says..." But he who was of the bondwoman WAS BORN ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, and he of the freewoman THROUGH THE PROMISE, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants; the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar-"

Paul was correcting them for mixing the two covenants together. His terminology was clear. The covenant of the law is of the flesh. The mistake that Abraham made was that he failed at first to believe the promise, his wife being barren. So he by his own effort helped God by producing a son through the slave. This is the flesh trying to do what God said He would do.

Here is the promise to us: Life is a free gift. The flesh has the temptation to assist God in fulfilling this promise. We need to overcome this temptation. Our works in the flesh do not assist God in any way in fulfilling His promise. Having begun in the Spirit are we so foolish as to think we are made perfect by the flesh? (by the works of law) Are we made perfect by works of any kind?

Whatever purpose our walk and our works have, one thing that is not included is the purpose of keeping or attaining everlasting life ( in other words, justification) We are to overcome the temptation to bring our works into the arena of justification for life. When we take God at His word, we glorify Him by our trust in Him. This is faith.
(But then, if one thinks that God is telling him to be justified by his works, then has he heard from God?) Faith comes by hearing. What are we hearing?

You have invented a schizoid belief that separates what one does from what one believes.

We overcome through faith in the One who is doing the perfect obedience through us by grace!
 

mjrhealth

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You have invented a schizoid belief that separates what one does from what one believes.
Yes there are some who dont believe Jesus did it all so spend there lives trying to do better than Him, and there are those who believe He did it all, but still spend there lives trying to do it all themselves, and there are those with childlike faith who just accept that in Jesus we are complete, nothing to do but believe,He has finished the work, He has paid the price and that He will change us when it is time, till than we will just Rest in Him, no works of ours will outdo or even begin to compare to His.

In all His Love
 

Episkopos

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mjrhealth said:
Yes there are some who dont believe Jesus did it all so spend there lives trying to do better than Him, and there are those who believe He did it all, but still spend there lives trying to do it all themselves, and there are those with childlike faith who just accept that in Jesus we are complete, nothing to do but believe,He has finished the work, He has paid the price and that He will change us when it is time, till than we will just Rest in Him, no works of ours will outdo or even begin to compare to His.

In all His Love

So essentially you are saying you have immunity from prosecution and everything is God's fault....
 

mjrhealth

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So essentially you are saying you have immunity from prosecution and everything is God's fault....
Whos going to prosecut me, and for what. I am not under the law. it has no hold on me. it cannot condemn me, even Christ has paid the price in full, of course if you are troubled by sin, than you havnt accepted wha Christ has done , and the law is doing what it does, condeming you, itr really is that simple. Law or grace which path. one to life one to eternal damnation.

Choose wisely


In all His love