New Testament Church vs Modern Church

[BeyondET]

My husband I love our church. But we see the good and the bad.

The church has a business side, a huge building to pay for, and prioritizes that and pulpit preaching. Tithes and offering go to that.

But the New Testament Church had some differences.

-More fellowship and doing life together

-Outreach, street evangelism

-Tithes went to those in need, not the church building

-Not just the Pastor spoke during gatherings

What are your thoughts on this?

@Ferris Bueller @Bible Highlighter @L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d @marks @devin553344 I'm curious as to what you all think as well.

Well buildings and electricity water etc are not free in the modern world and governments and banks, utilities company don't care rather its a church or not so that is part of life pretty much all churches have to deal with keeping the lights on mortgage/rent paid so there is that aspect of having a structure to worship in.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I was part of a church that required the members to give everything to the church.

Yikes! Ouch.
Giving 'everything' was entirely a personal choice in the early church.

"4Did it not belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal?" Acts 5:4​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The most puzzling thing is that all evangelical and fundamental church leaders have the Bible in their hands. So how do they fail so miserably in implementing the NT pattern?

Oh, boy, don't get me started, lol!

As far as I can tell the tradition of solemn, mundane, orchestrated, one sided meetings came in with the early church fathers. Completely opposite of what the Bible teaches. And it's been perpetuated ever since.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So perhaps you can speak to your church leaders and let them know that they have deviated from the NT pattern and it is time to get back.

No.
I've personally never known of a church that could admit it was wrong.
Generally, the best thing to do is move on.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'll be honest, when I seriously consider speaking to them, I get a sinking feeling. I don't know that I'd get a positive response.

You will not.
Don't ignore that sinking feeling.
I wish I was wrong, but they're probably not going to be open to correction. They think they're supposed to be the know-it-alls. I'm not being mean. They carry a very real burden of always having to be right. And to admit they are wrong tears away at the legitimacy of their ministry. Yes, the leadership should know more than the rest of us, but they also have to be learning with us too! I had a pastor who was like that. He didn't have to know it all, and he didn't. But what he did know was very useful and effective to the body. His own teachings taught him, too. They say when teaching others you are your best student. That's a fact check true. I'm not a teacher, but one time I labored intensely over a teaching/discussion I wanted to lead about Abraham and the sacrifice of Isaac. I ended up being my best student.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I love our pastoring couple but they went into partial debt to cover $15,000 worth of carpet and chairs. We have a small membership so we couldn't afford it.

Maybe the best thing to do is save the money up, first, for such an expenditure. And then if you can't afford it, well, you can't afford it!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I can tell that they are stressed with the business side of things. Yes, it's because they were never meant to do most of it, but saying that seems like it would be perceived as an attack.

It would.
It'll only make trouble to talk to them about it...unless you are on a very personal level with the. Then they might be able to acknowledge their lack in private.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But I might mention that I feel overcommitted lately and that I want to focus more on fellowship.

When I think of fellowship I think of 1 Corinthians 14:26-31. Church can be fellowship.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As for returning to the New Testament model, I think it'd be tough. I'd essentially be asking the Pastor to turn in his license and start a house church.

Maybe. But I don't think that has to happen.
Just renting a space instead of owing property and a building with all it's expenses would be a good move toward the New Testament model, IMO. This may sound contrary to what I've been saying but I think a church should prefer a public meeting place over a private residence.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I could use prayer. There are many positive elements to the church. The current pastor has only been at the church a year and a half. We are trying to be patient and watch the direction the church is heading in.

As long as your pastor stays in the church model and tradition he's been taught and is accustomed to I don't see any hope for the changes necessary to get the church to where it should be. You pretty much have to experience a true, Biblical meeting of the saints, and how it works, to appreciate it and see it's value and success to want it. Prayer can make that happen for him somehow, somewhere. I think if you talk about these things in a Bible study (the closest thing the church has to a real, Biblical meeting of the saints) the enlightenment the pastor needs can happen.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I shouldn't be surprised but if I think about this too much, I think Id be really upset. What can I say? I really am sorry this happened to you. I know words are meaningless.

If you needed help, Id help as much as I could. I mean it. I know I got help when I needed it.

My sister got some amazing help from a local ministry when she needed it.
Also, you'd be surprised at how many people there are in the church with money who will gladly dish out big dollars for particular needs. I mean thousands of dollars.

Just tonight I was thanking God for the business man who basically paid the rent and utilities for the open church that I attended and where I learned and experienced the truths about real, Biblical 'church'. He made the church possible.

 

[Enoch111]

Well buildings and electricity water etc are not free in the modern world and governments and banks, utilities company don't care rather its a church or not so that is part of life pretty much all churches have to deal with keeping the lights on mortgage/rent paid so there is that aspect of having a structure to worship in.

There is generally no objection to a meeting place and the expenses involved. The objection is to elaborate and costly buildings which are not necessary.

 

[BeyondET]

There is generally no objection to a meeting place and the expenses involved. The objection is to elaborate and costly buildings which are not necessary.

I agree rather elaborate or not they all have to pay something to keep the doors open point being.

I'm not a fan of the elaborate either no point in it imo.

 

[Wynona]

Thanks everyone for your responses so far. @Ferris Bueller , thank you for responding to every part of my message!! Maybe I should use bullet points more often.

Thank you for sharing that you've never known a church that could admit its wrong. My expectations for trying to win my pastor away from tradition were pretty low.

Your idea about renting a church meeting place has merit.

I have some ideas about simply starting a house church or New Testament based church in the future. But the time has come for me to share with my husband what Ive learned.

What's making me nervous is not that he'll reject what I'm saying. But that it will confirm all his frustrations and then he'll leave church immediately or do something else guns blazing.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is generally no objection to a meeting place and the expenses involved. The objection is to elaborate and costly buildings which are not necessary.

I think it is more than that, my friend. The problems of popular churches today is more than just having the burden of an expensive building to take care of. It’s about mingling believers with unbelievers in fellowship to praise God. It’s about putting on a show or performance and not about Christians simply getting to know each other and help each other in Christ (So as to serve the Lord). Generally speaking (and not always): Evangelism was done by going out by two to reach the lost. The lost was not called to fellowship with other believers. Churches today have become worldly and they focus on how you all you have to do is just believe in Jesus for salvation and it is not about doing anything for the Lord. The structure and model is to uplift one man (the Pastor king) to call all the shots when that is not how things are to be done. It’s about man made programs and not about believers truly fellowship in and encouraging one another to be careful to maintain good works and to live holy for the Lord to honor His grace.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Check out these thread here (at CF):

God's Order in the Church vs Man's Order

The Pastor King (New)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Maybe. But I don't think that has to happen.
Just renting a space instead of owing property and a building with all it's expenses would be a good move toward the New Testament model, IMO. This may sound contrary to what I've been saying but I think a church should prefer a public meeting place over a private residence.

While I am sure God is not going to condemn us for renting a building to have fellowship with believers, it just runs contrary to the normative weekly fellowship that we see in the Bible. They met in each other’s homes. Jason’s house was one place of fellowship mentioned in the Bible. Jesus even said to invite the poor to our home and give them a meal. We tend to want to protect our lives and so many of us will desire to steer clear of doing this. But if we want to be biblically based, it should be founded on us following exactly what the Bible says. I know that renting a building just sounds better for a lot of reasons (logically), but I believe God calls us to do things that are difficult. God calls us to move out of our comfort zones.

The danger is doing our own thing that is not found in the Bible. Take for example your avatar and username. It is not a promotion of Jesus Christ and or His Word but it is a promotion of a worldly movie that pushes various sins. This is the problem with churches today. I have heard of one church that watches worldly sinful movies in my area. So this is one part of the problem. Churches are not focused on doing only what God’s Word teaches alone and they just look and act like the world (doing their own thing and trying to mingle that in with the things of God).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus even said to invite the poor to our home and give them a meal.

But that's not 'church'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Take for example your avatar and username. It is not a promotion of Jesus Christ and or His Word but it is a promotion of a worldly movie that pushes various sins.

At the time I chose it, I did not know (or remember?) the original movie theater production was not a movie that I personally, or any Christian should watch. The TV version is just a fun, make believe day in the life.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

While I am sure God is not going to condemn us for renting a building to have fellowship with believers, it just runs contrary to the normative weekly fellowship that we see in the Bible. They met in each other’s homes. Jason’s house was one place of fellowship mentioned in the Bible. Jesus even said to invite the poor to our home and give them a meal. We tend to want to protect our lives and so many of us will desire to steer clear of doing this. But if we want to be biblically based, it should be founded on us following exactly what the Bible says. I know that renting a building just sounds better for a lot of reasons (logically), but I believe God calls us to do things that are difficult. God calls us to move out of our comfort zones.

The danger is doing our own thing that is not found in the Bible. Take for example your avatar and username. It is not a promotion of Jesus Christ and or His Word but it is a promotion of a worldly movie that pushes various sins. This is the problem with churches today. I have heard of one church that watches worldly sinful movies in my area. So this is one part of the problem. Churches are not focused on doing only what God’s Word teaches alone and they just look and act like the world (doing their own thing and trying to mingle that in with the things of God).

Anyway, this totally ignores the concept of the synagogue. The place where, in the dispersion, the Jews met in accordance with God's various commands for congregational meeting. Obviously, the early church had to meet in homes. That in no way was setting a precedent that believers can only meet in homes. That wouldn't even be possible in my home and many people's homes. Public meeting places are by far more effective and suited to the health and well-being and success of the church, IMO. I'm not knocking home churches, but I personally see too many potential limitations and problems with them. If one was done right I might attend.