new version of OSAS?

[Corlove13]

To be specific—- The Gospel is a Promise.....Jesus was God in the Flesh.....Jesus Sacrifice on the Cross made the Promise possible .....

The Kingdom is indeed NOW made available through Believing who He is......” the intent to follow” sounds good.....it IS good......it just ain’t part of the Gospel.....

The Heart of the Gospel is “ Jesus Saves”. NOT “ Jesus Saves—- BUT, your intentions must measure up! You must agree to “ Follow!” ( Whatever “that” means..... probably trying to make yourself “ Worthy” in some performance- Based manner , instead of reading we are “ MADE Worthy by the Blood Of The Lamb....it’s a Recipe for “ falling from Grace”...... and as always....it Sounds good....it tickles the ears to think that YOU did something other than simply Believe) The True Gospel is NOT what you do/did for God —— it’s what God did for you.That way, God gets ALL of the Glory and you get NONE.....just theWay He Wants it......human pride rejects God's Way....God’s Way is as simple as the song that millions of Hypocrites sing every Sunday—- “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus”.....NOT, “Nothing But The Blood plus your willingness and ability to follow Him.....good things for sure , but never forget that Salvation was a GIFT.....all you had to do was “ cash in” on what was already accomplished FOR you.....

Well the good news would be meaningless if no one intended to trust it....

 

[michaelvpardo]

Please read post #484. Thank you.

No thanks. I'm not questioning your faith, just challenging your understanding (which will change over time. Everyone's does.)

 

[Corlove13]

Putting your confidence in Jesus for what? To complete your salvation? How confident are you?

Much love!

And you talk about FB?

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise who is the guarantee of our inheritance.” Ephesians
1:13–14

(believe)Pisteuo -to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place
confidence in

Instead of being negative back...I'll just leave the conversation here...

Peace

 

[michaelvpardo]

Does this mean perseverance of the saints is not taught today because it is old?

No, the doctrine has been rejected by many because of our notions of free will. James Wesley was largely responsible for the formation of the Methodist Church, a fairly large denomination, and that split occured primarily over the argument of man's "free will" against Martin Luther's concept of the bondage of the will. These concepts are crucial to understanding the nature of election and predestination, and foundational to the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. In the briefest of summaries, the saints persevere because God makes them to persevere as an evidence of their salvation, they aren't saved by their perseverance. Salvation is entirely of God, we contribute nothing but our bodies.

 

[marks]

Christians who claim to be followers are to be the righteousnes of God in Christ....

Walk by faith . . . not by sight. You can't "see" someone's righteousness anyway. You have your perceptions of people, and your opinions based on those perceptions. The Word of God is sure.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And you talk about FB?

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise who is the guarantee of our inheritance.” Ephesians
1:13–14

(believe)Pisteuo -to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place
confidence in

Instead of being negative back...I'll just leave the conversation here...

Peace

My question is . . . do you in fact have confidence in Christ?

This isn't meant in a negative or derogatory way. I'm serious. Are you confident in Him? If so, then why not stand in that confidence?

Jesus saves. I'm confident He has saved me. Completely confident. To the uttermost. All the way home.

Much love!

 

[michaelvpardo]

Mark- I'd say, keep it real . . . this isn't about some person somewhere who may think some certain thing. The pertinent question is what do you believe for yourself?

It sure is.......I have rarely met a true disciple of Christ growing up.......Christians who claim to be followers are to be the righteousnes of God in Christ....The state of our children, the homeless, the government, families, institutions, etc depends on What they see in us...We are to be world changers that bring the light to those around us by being Lit up! ....But if the Gospel we preach is not transforming the person into the likeness of Christ we need to check what we are preaching. THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM IS WHAT THE DISCIPLES AND JESUS PREACHED...AND IF THAT WAS PREACHED THE OSAS DOCTRINE WOULD GO AWAY...BECAUSE PEOPLE, THEIR ASSURANCE WILL COME AS THEY KEEP RIGHT RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.

That's kind of Masonic doctrine, not Christian. The only thing required of Christians is that we witness Christ, make disciples of men, and expose the hidden things of darkness. That's what is referred to as the great commission. Where did you get the notion that we were meant to change the world? (according to scripture that's Christ's job at his return. )

 

[michaelvpardo]

Jesus is the Gosple? Do you agree?

And the Kingdom is NOW made available through believing who He is with the intent to follow.

Isaiah chapter 53 is the gospel. Just substitute the name Jesus in place of "my righteous servant" and consider what it says in verse 10 very carefully. Jesus' ministry didn't change the gospel as Isaiah laid it out, but fulfilled Isaiah's prophetic statements and they reveal the key element of the gospel in the propitiation of our sin.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Continuing in belief in Christ covers any and all failure to be perfect.

.....and I Believe that a “ One Time” Born Again experience ( which of course is a MUST for Salvation) will put one into “ The Body Of Christ” where ALL of the Security Of Any Believer is UNTOUCHABLE....why do I believe that? ( I know how absurd it can sound to human ears....I used to agree with my opponents on this—- it just makes sense, right ? ) ....I believe that because Jesus said at the moment you believe, you ALREADY have crossed over from Death unto Life and you can NEVER come under Condemnation..... this includes Future events of a Believer.....

I see it this way.....a man “ has his heart opened” by the Holy Spirit so that he even has the “ possibility” to hear and Believe the Gospel ( no man comes to God lest the Spirit draw him—-it’s God’s initiative that Saves— NOT ours)That man who believes the Gospel is Saved at that point in time....

Now, let’s say that “ Time” was June 29th back in 1997....the man was truly saved ...... If we then fast forward , say until June 29th 2020 and for whatever “reason” the man falls into terrible error and loses his faith , wouldn’t that be an event that happened in the Future of his Salvation Date.....how can he “ lose” his Salvation when it was a future event that was promised to be Covered on the day he got Saved? Lol.....I hope this makes sense to all of you good people out there....

For a Truly Saved man, I would say this a very rare occurrence....when you enter the World Of Practicing Faith, It is easier to stay “ IN” that World than it is to depart from it....I am not even certain that is possible....

I would think that a man that goes that route will be Chastised Severely and he will be Miserable until he comes back to his senses.....Good always has the option to take His Children “Home”, and when this type is “ called home “ early, he will get the “ Joy” Of standing before his Savior, thoroughly ashamed , scared to death and bereft of any “ crowns”....Not everybody that makes it to Heaven Will receive a Crown —— there is one however that almost All Believers will get.....it will be given to those who are eager and joyful to finally see their Savior.....The Believer That abandons His Belief( once again, it may not even be possible) won’t even get “ that” one...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Just curious but have you ever met a born again believer who has said that it was "okay" to sin or to do evil?

Well, to be fair I have met people who claim to be born again who have said it was "okay" to sin or do evil. Meaning it had no effect on their salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is old and worth examining.

Compared to the new Osas, yes, it is worth examining.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Someday, perhaps, you will have a new heart that sees not nor have any like thoughts.

I personally don't have those thoughts. Some Christians may, though. But I am being humble and not arrogant or conceited about my place in the tree. Just as Paul tells us believers to be.

It is good if as you say you now have a heart that sees not nor have thoughts of ever rejecting Jesus Christ. And with Christ in you and you in Him, there is nothing more secure than that.

Every one who was given a new heart, one such as that which you say you have, that sees not nor ever have thoughts of rejecting Christ, are like you, secured in Christ Jesus, him being in Christ and Christ being in him.

Tong
R3427

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Well, to be fair I have met people who claim to be born again who have said it was "okay" to sin or do evil. Meaning it had no effect on their salvation.

Wow! Where did you meet these people? ..I’ve been here for quite some time now.Ive never heard anybody claim that Sin or Evil are “ okay”......I think your post is misleading to the point of being a lie....you and “ justbyfaithplusluckyrepentance” just keep sinking lower and lower in direct proportion to the Bible-Based arguments that you lose....you remind me of another Subtle Liar from the Bible....

 

[JunChosen]

I like Strong's concordance and have found it a valuable tool for bible study (I haven't the will or desire to learn dead languages), but the concordance isn't inspired, just a good bit of reference material.

I apologize for not having your wisdom and knowledge in the things of God. The Strong's concordance or any concordance that can help my peanut brain with words I do not understand in the Greek or Hebrew is appreciated much.

The reason I asked you to read post #474 is because we gave the same Scripture response to the same poster, yet I was wrong according to you as you said above.

A Christian is supposed to be able to teach as well as to be able to be taght.

So teach me.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Cooper]

Ah, yes. The real you shining through, again, lol.
No, I'm not coming back under a different name in this forum. There's no need to do that. I'll just stop talking to you instead. That's what I've decided. But I may close my account if I go with through with some personal plans I have had for myself for quite a while now. And, yes, you may consider that the answer to your righteous prayers to God to remove me from the forum, lol.

Please don't leave, we need more like you.
.

 

[Tong2020]

michaelvpardo said: ↑
It wasn't a loss of salvation or inheritance because the ministry of the gospel is the ministry of reconciliation, not condemnation.

Yep. If you keep believing.

Yep. For otherwise, you will have been manifested as not a true disciple and believer in Jesus Christ.

Tong
R3428

 

[Tong2020]

michaelvpardo said: ↑
Even church discipline of sinning members is supposed to be about reconciliation to the body of Christ, not about permanent expulsion.

Correct. If they respond to church discipline and repent.

Those who are disciplined by God are God’s legitimate children. They will surely be brought back to that which is good. For God fails not.

Tong
R3429

 

[Corlove13]

.....and I Believe that a “ One Time” Born Again experience ( which of course is a MUST for Salvation) will put one into “ The Body Of Christ” where ALL of the Security Of Any Believer is UNTOUCHABLE....why do I believe that? ( I know how absurd it can sound to human ears....I used to agree with my opponents on this—- it just makes sense, right ? ) ....I believe that because Jesus said at the moment you believe, you ALREADY have crossed over from Death unto Life and you can NEVER come under Condemnation..... this includes Future events of a Believer.....

I see it this way.....a man “ has his heart opened” by the Holy Spirit so that he even has the “ possibility” to hear and Believe the Gospel ( no man comes to God lest the Spirit draw him—-it’s God’s initiative that Saves— NOT ours)That man who believes the Gospel is Saved at that point in time....

Now, let’s say that “ Time” was June 29th back in 1997....the man was truly saved ...... If we then fast forward , say until June 29th 2020 and for whatever “reason” the man falls into terrible error and loses his faith , wouldn’t that be an event that happened in the Future of his Salvation Date.....how can he “ lose” his Salvation when it was a future event that was promised to be Covered on the day he got Saved? Lol.....I hope this makes sense to all of you good people out there....

For a Truly Saved man, I would say this a very rare occurrence....when you enter the World Of Practicing Faith, It is easier to stay “ IN” that World than it is to depart from it....I am not even certain that is possible....

I would think that a man that goes that route will be Chastised Severely and he will be Miserable until he comes back to his senses.....Good always has the option to take His Children “Home”, and when this type is “ called home “ early, he will get the “ Joy” Of standing before his Savior, thoroughly ashamed , scared to death and bereft of any “ crowns”....Not everybody that makes it to Heaven Will receive a Crown —— there is one however that almost All Believers will get.....it will be given to those who are eager and joyful to finally see their Savior.....The Believer That abandons His Belief( once again, it may not even be possible) won’t even get “ that” one...

This is an example of my Point....
One who takes Justification as all of Salvation.....

He filters all scriptures enclosed in

To be specific—- The Gospel is a Promise.....Jesus was God in the Flesh.....Jesus Sacrifice on the Cross made the Promise possible .....

The Kingdom is indeed NOW made available through Believing who He is......” the intent to follow” sounds good.....it IS good......it just ain’t part of the Gospel.....

The Heart of the Gospel is “ Jesus Saves”. NOT “ Jesus Saves—- BUT, your intentions must measure up! You must agree to “ Follow!” ( Whatever “that” means..... probably trying to make yourself “ Worthy” in some performance- Based manner , instead of reading we are “ MADE Worthy by the Blood Of The Lamb....it’s a Recipe for “ falling from Grace”...... and as always....it Sounds good....it tickles the ears to think that YOU did something other than simply Believe) The True Gospel is NOT what you do/did for God —— it’s what God did for you.That way, God gets ALL of the Glory and you get NONE.....just theWay He Wants it......human pride rejects God's Way....God’s Way is as simple as the song that millions of Hypocrites sing every Sunday—- “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus”.....NOT, “Nothing But The Blood plus your willingness and ability to follow Him.....good things for sure , but never forget that Salvation was a GIFT.....all you had to do was “ cash in” on what was already accomplished FOR you.....

Gospel
Let me say that again the Gospel is Jesus and the availability of the kingdom....

pause................................................................

REGENERATION
And to enter the kingdom one needs to believe Jesus is really who God says He is....

......
Pause
.......
So How is one Justified? Let's look for the story of Father Abraham.

That's kind of Masonic doctrine, not Christian. The only thing required of Christians is that we witness Christ, make disciples of men, and expose the hidden things of darkness. That's what is referred to as the great commission. Where did you get the notion that we were meant to change the world? (according to scripture that's Christ's job at his return. )

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven

 

[Corlove13]

.....and I Believe that a “ One Time” Born Again experience ( which of course is a MUST for Salvation) will put one into “ The Body Of Christ” where ALL of the Security Of Any Believer is UNTOUCHABLE....why do I believe that? ( I know how absurd it can sound to human ears....I used to agree with my opponents on this—- it just makes sense, right ? ) ....I believe that because Jesus said at the moment you believe, you ALREADY have crossed over from Death unto Life and you can NEVER come under Condemnation..... this includes Future events of a Believer.....

I see it this way.....a man “ has his heart opened” by the Holy Spirit so that he even has the “ possibility” to hear and Believe the Gospel ( no man comes to God lest the Spirit draw him—-it’s God’s initiative that Saves— NOT ours)That man who believes the Gospel is Saved at that point in time....

Now, let’s say that “ Time” was June 29th back in 1997....the man was truly saved ...... If we then fast forward , say until June 29th 2020 and for whatever “reason” the man falls into terrible error and loses his faith , wouldn’t that be an event that happened in the Future of his Salvation Date.....how can he “ lose” his Salvation when it was a future event that was promised to be Covered on the day he got Saved? Lol.....I hope this makes sense to all of you good people out there....

For a Truly Saved man, I would say this a very rare occurrence....when you enter the World Of Practicing Faith, It is easier to stay “ IN” that World than it is to depart from it....I am not even certain that is possible....

I would think that a man that goes that route will be Chastised Severely and he will be Miserable until he comes back to his senses.....Good always has the option to take His Children “Home”, and when this type is “ called home “ early, he will get the “ Joy” Of standing before his Savior, thoroughly ashamed , scared to death and bereft of any “ crowns”....Not everybody that makes it to Heaven Will receive a Crown —— there is one however that almost All Believers will get.....it will be given to those who are eager and joyful to finally see their Savior.....The Believer That abandons His Belief( once again, it may not even be possible) won’t even get “ that” one...

Salvation is Life...it is to know God and Jesus.....and it is ungoing.....so when you stop....at one incident......you miss out...on the ungoing relationship...meaning how we relate to God...

It's also about deliverence from actual sin.
We are to grow in grace and in knowledge of Jesus....

This is what OSAS miss....because of what your foundation is built on....

 

[Corlove13]

Walk by faith . . . not by sight. You can't "see" someone's righteousness anyway. You have your perceptions of people, and your opinions based on those perceptions. The Word of God is sure.

Much love!

This is true that The word of God is true....
And we are Justified before others by what they see us do...We know a tree by the fruit it bears.
All these are scriptures..
Even the one you called an opinion...
For if we are to become the righteousness of God in Christ....How else do others know we are of God if it isn't by what we say and do.

It is also written
1 John 1-5 Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.

Anyway enough of conversing with some of you....you do the same things I've seen you accuse others of...

None of it uplifts the hearers
And I do not want to take part in your ploy....so

Peace to you....time to ignore...so those of us who want to learn from each other can with the right heart....