New World Order Jesuit Deception

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,647
2,519
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Some co-called churches today hold to the 15th century doctrine called Full Preterism. They believe that all... of Christ's Olivet discourse signs were fulfilled in 70 A.D. This means they likewise treat Lord Jesus' Book of Revelation the same, as having already been fulfilled back in the days of Christ's Apostles.

What that false doctrine does then is suppose that we are now in Christ's Kingdom since 70 A.D. It also wrongly supposes that the "thousand years" literal reign by Jesus at His future coming is meant spiritually, and began in the era of His Apostles after 70 A.D.

That false doctrine is suggested to have been created by a Jesuit priest as part of the Catholic Church's counter-reformation strategy against the Protestant movement in Europe back in that era.

I wouldn't go so far as to allow that as the real... origin of that Full Preterist doctrine though.

Those who know their Bible as written are aware per Christ's Book of Revelation that for the very end of this world there is to be a beast kingdom setup over the earth with ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns, and that a beast king, the "another beast" of Rev.13 &17, is to come to be king over it, and rule over all nations and peoples for the end.

That world beast system for the end is a direct parallel to today's globalist workings towards a "one world government", which is what they themselves have called it, and have also used the "New World Order" label for it in their political speeches. The New World Order phrase used to be a mystery, with only those who knew what the phrase meant when it was said in political speeches, even back to the days of ex-President Woodrow Wilson in the 1900s.

What this means then, is that the Full Preterism doctrine that is the rule in many Christian Churches today, is actually pushing the "New World Order" agenda which will become Lucifer's tool for the end of this world over all nations and peoples. Many in their congregations are possibly not aware of what that false doctrine means. Others in those congregations I believe know exactly what it means, and are 100% on board with the "one world government" working.

Consider why members in those type churches would agree with Full Preterism:

1. as believers on Christ, they believe Jesus gave them 'this present world' to go ahead and create His Kingdom now, without the need of His future return.

2. they want to help the poorer nations, which is a good desire all Christians have. But at what expense? Already the western Christian nations have been sending much wealth and technology to its traditional enemies, like the Communist nations, and nations like Red China have used it to make their economy more powerful in building more weapons in prep for war! And they have repeatedly said they expect war with The United States.

3. the western and free nations have been fighting radical Islam for how many decades now in the name of global world peace? at least since 1993 when Arafat announced this latter phase of official Jihad terrorism. But yeah, all Christians have the basic desire for world peace. Yet Jesus and Apostle Paul warned us about the false "Peace and safety" for the very end just prior to Christ's future return. The New World Order's world peace is only going to be for serving Lucifer's beast kingdom.

4. all Christians naturally want all wars to end. But Lord Jesus warned that when we stop hearing of wars and rumors of war, then we are in the very END (i.e., the "great tribulation"). And that will mean the world will hate us who remain faithful in Christ Jesus.

5. the New World Order system supports the false idea that all... religions are equal. The U.N. even has pushed legislation where you cannot defame any religion. They even have a meditation room in the U.N. building in New York so whatever religion you follow, you can go in their to worship. To join with that means giving up what The Bible says that we are saved ONLY through the name of Jesus Christ and none other. Both the Catholic Church and... these so-called Protestant Churches on the Preterism doctrines are allowing demonstrations within their church services of 'other' religions. I once saw a newpaper photo in a Chicago paper of three Buddhist priests chanting mantras standing in front of the Communion Table of Christ inside a Church.

6. the crept in unawares (i.e., Lucifer's workers), fool these church congregations, because they are supporting the ecumenical joining of all religions in one big pot in prep for their messiah to come and play God over all of it. Apostle Paul actually warned about this very thing in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 with the false one to come at the end sitting in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, and showing himself that he is God, and over all that worshiped or that is called God! The point here is 'one world religion'.
 

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,194
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
"Both the Catholic Church and... these so-called Protestant Churches on the Preterism doctrines are allowing demonstrations within their church services of 'other' religions."
I don't know about Protestant churches, but your take on the Catholic Church is a load of crap. Jesus prayed that we may be one, as He is one with the Father. Does that prove Jesus is a globalist? A "One World Religion" violates centuries Catholic teaching. The Pope is not interested in a OWR, he wants people to stop killing each other in the name of God. So ignorant anti-Catholics make a big fuss when he meets with world leaders trying to find ways to stop wars and massive starvation.

1679195981850.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: Philip James

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,276
3,092
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Consider why members in those type churches would agree with Full Preterism:

1. as believers on Christ, they believe Jesus gave them 'this present world' to go ahead and create His Kingdom now, without the need of His future return.
Hello Davy,

well im not sure what 'type' you are referring to, but the Catholic Church says this about such 'creation of His kingdom now' programs:

676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement. the Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,576 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.577

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

That said, Christ reigns NOW!

Christ already reigns through the Church. . .

668 "Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living."548 Christ's Ascension into heaven signifies his participation, in his humanity, in God's power and authority. Jesus Christ is Lord: he possesses all power in heaven and on earth. He is "far above all rule and authority and power and dominion", for the Father "has put all things under his feet."549 Christ is Lord of the cosmos and of history. In him human history and indeed all creation are "set forth" and transcendently fulfilled.550

669 As Lord, Christ is also head of the Church, which is his Body.551 Taken up to heaven and glorified after he had thus fully accomplished his mission, Christ dwells on earth in his Church. the redemption is the source of the authority that Christ, by virtue of the Holy Spirit, exercises over the Church. "The kingdom of Christ (is) already present in mystery", "on earth, the seed and the beginning of the kingdom".552

670 Since the Ascension God's plan has entered into its fulfilment. We are already at "the last hour".553 "Already the final age of the world is with us, and the renewal of the world is irrevocably under way; it is even now anticipated in a certain real way, for the Church on earth is endowed already with a sanctity that is real but imperfect."554 Christ's kingdom already manifests its presence through the miraculous signs that attend its proclamation by the Church.555
. . . until all things are subjected to him

Pax et Bonum
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,647
2,519
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello Davy,

well im not sure what 'type' you are referring to, but the Catholic Church says this about such 'creation of His kingdom now' programs:

676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement. the Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,576 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.577

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

That said, Christ reigns NOW!

Christ already reigns through the Church. . .

668 "Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living."548 Christ's Ascension into heaven signifies his participation, in his humanity, in God's power and authority. Jesus Christ is Lord: he possesses all power in heaven and on earth. He is "far above all rule and authority and power and dominion", for the Father "has put all things under his feet."549 Christ is Lord of the cosmos and of history. In him human history and indeed all creation are "set forth" and transcendently fulfilled.550

669 As Lord, Christ is also head of the Church, which is his Body.551 Taken up to heaven and glorified after he had thus fully accomplished his mission, Christ dwells on earth in his Church. the redemption is the source of the authority that Christ, by virtue of the Holy Spirit, exercises over the Church. "The kingdom of Christ (is) already present in mystery", "on earth, the seed and the beginning of the kingdom".552

670 Since the Ascension God's plan has entered into its fulfilment. We are already at "the last hour".553 "Already the final age of the world is with us, and the renewal of the world is irrevocably under way; it is even now anticipated in a certain real way, for the Church on earth is endowed already with a sanctity that is real but imperfect."554 Christ's kingdom already manifests its presence through the miraculous signs that attend its proclamation by the Church.555
. . . until all things are subjected to him

Pax et Bonum
It's not just the Catholic Church that has claimed the false "Kingdom Now" theories, I am sure... you already know. Some Protestant denominations through history, and still today, have too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,194
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
It's not just the Catholic Church that has claimed the false "Kingdom Now" theories, I am sure... you already know. Some Protestant denominations through history, and still today, have too.
"false "Kingdom Now" theories"??? I have no idea what you are talking about. Everything the Church formally teaches is available on line for everyone to see. How you managed to squeeze out false "Kingdom Now" theories from Philip James post is because you are predisposed to read anything Catholic with a hostile intent. The Church, including separated Christians, is Christ on earth. That has always been the case. If a church shows no sign of being Christ on earth, it's a fake church.

Here is the full context of Philip James post:
Note the copious scripture references in the footnotes.

By reading it with a hostile disposition, you strain a gnat and swallow a camel. But I'm confident you won't read it anyway.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Philip James

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,194
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Some co-called churches today hold to the 15th century doctrine called Full Preterism. They believe that all... of Christ's Olivet discourse signs were fulfilled in 70 A.D. This means they likewise treat Lord Jesus' Book of Revelation the same, as having already been fulfilled back in the days of Christ's Apostles.
Sorry, Davy, The CC has never taught Full Preterism. Jesuit conspiracy theories are typical of paranoid fundamentalists, so your thread title is misleading.

The difficulty in these show trials and murders by the English government was that it did not want the perception that priests were being killed for their religious beliefs. It would not sit well with Catholic European powers, nor did the government wish to see a cult of martyrdom grow up around the dead priests.

Instead, the English government argued that these priests were being killed because their actions threatened to undermine English liberties. They were deemed traitors, and the propaganda of the day pounded that drum over and over. They could have what religious beliefs they wanted, the government argued. But as priests, and particularly as Jesuits, they were, by their nature, dedicated to the overthrow of Elizabeth and subverters of the rights of Englishmen.

And thus it was born: Catholics and their priests were a potential fifth column within society that could rise up at any minute and overthrow the present order. Manipulated by foreign priests—particularly the wily Jesuits—Catholics were always just a moment’s notice away from armed insurrection at the behest of the pope.

In November 1605, this politics of paranoia aimed at Catholics and their priests in England reached its pinnacle when the Gunpowder Plot was discovered. (Guy Faulks was an activist, and not acting under any orders from the Church)

The image was now set, particularly in the show trials that followed. Catholic priests—Jesuits in particular—would do anything to accomplish their nefarious goals. From thereon, whenever it was useful, the image of Catholics controlled by their priests conspiring to undermine English liberty became a useful propaganda tool.

A short fifteen years after the Gunpowder Plot, the Pilgrims set sail for America, bringing with them the same understanding of Catholicism: The Church is out to undermine free governments and destroy liberties because it is interested only in raw power.

And nearly 400 years later, that Catholic urban legend remains a deeply entrenched part of American thinking.

Your thread title is misleading.
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,647
2,519
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"false "Kingdom Now" theories"??? I have no idea what you are talking about.
John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, "
My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence."
KJV


Anyone who believes that Christ's Kingdom is already established upon this earth today goes directly... against what He revealed in the above John 18:36 verse.

THIS PRESENT WORLD is NOT Christ's Kingdom, nor will this world ever be Christ's Kingdom. Christ's Kingdom will happen here on earth when He returns in our near future, and that is when He will end all evil. Until then, His faithful servants await His Kingdom to come.

How to pray per Jesus...

Luke 11:2
2 And He said unto them, "When ye pray, say, Our Father Which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
KJV


That is not praying for a 'Kingdom already here' type idea. That is praying for the Kingdom to come, which Christ brings when He returns!

How could you, claiming to be a Christian, not know this?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,544
1,867
113
72
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Sorry, Davy, The CC has never taught Full Preterism. Jesuit conspiracy theories are typical of paranoid fundamentalists, so your thread title is misleading.

The difficulty in these show trials and murders by the English government was that it did not want the perception that priests were being killed for their religious beliefs. It would not sit well with Catholic European powers, nor did the government wish to see a cult of martyrdom grow up around the dead priests.

Instead, the English government argued that these priests were being killed because their actions threatened to undermine English liberties. They were deemed traitors, and the propaganda of the day pounded that drum over and over. They could have what religious beliefs they wanted, the government argued. But as priests, and particularly as Jesuits, they were, by their nature, dedicated to the overthrow of Elizabeth and subverters of the rights of Englishmen.

And thus it was born: Catholics and their priests were a potential fifth column within society that could rise up at any minute and overthrow the present order. Manipulated by foreign priests—particularly the wily Jesuits—Catholics were always just a moment’s notice away from armed insurrection at the behest of the pope.

In November 1605, this politics of paranoia aimed at Catholics and their priests in England reached its pinnacle when the Gunpowder Plot was discovered. (Guy Faulks was an activist, and not acting under any orders from the Church)

The image was now set, particularly in the show trials that followed. Catholic priests—Jesuits in particular—would do anything to accomplish their nefarious goals. From thereon, whenever it was useful, the image of Catholics controlled by their priests conspiring to undermine English liberty became a useful propaganda tool.

A short fifteen years after the Gunpowder Plot, the Pilgrims set sail for America, bringing with them the same understanding of Catholicism: The Church is out to undermine free governments and destroy liberties because it is interested only in raw power.

And nearly 400 years later, that Catholic urban legend remains a deeply entrenched part of American thinking.
Your thread title is misleading.

Luis del Alcázar


"...Spanish Jesuit theologian...known for his Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (1614) published after his death, putting forward what would later be called a preterist view of Biblical prophecy..."
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,647
2,519
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sorry, Davy, The CC has never taught Full Preterism. Jesuit conspiracy theories are typical of paranoid fundamentalists, so your thread title is misleading.
If you had paid attention, you would have noticed I said the following about that:

"I wouldn't go so far as to allow that as the real... origin of that Full Preterist doctrine though."

It's those on the false pre-trib rapture theory that claim the pre-trib rapture theory originates with Lacunza, when I don't see any evidence that it did.

And please don't associate me with Fundamentalists, like Baptists and such. I am a Protestant Christian descended from the first French Protestants in 16th century France. Not all Protestants are Fundamentallists, or Modernists, or Culturists, and whatever other labels illiterate seminary grads can come up with.

The difficulty in these show trials and murders by the English government was that it did not want the perception that priests were being killed for their religious beliefs. It would not sit well with Catholic European powers, nor did the government wish to see a cult of martyrdom grow up around the dead priests.
You are way... off base. Those being delivered up per Christ's Sign in Mark 13 is about the END of this world, for the time of "great tribulation", not past history dealing with the RCC. The British Church and the Roman Church have always been at odds with each other you probably well know, and I of course take the side of the 'historical and traditional' British Church which regarded the pope as equal with any other Christian, and is not lord over the crown of England. The English Church at times persecuted its own saints too, so the RCC is not alone in that, which I especially refer to my Protestant ancestors in France.

Thus you trying to relate Roman Church history with Christ's SIGNS for the end is actually ludicrous, because it reveals you don't understand what Lord Jesus was warning His servants about for the 'end' of this world.

I do not believe the coming Antichrist will be a pope, nor a president, nor some leader anywhere from Europe. So you need to re-read what I posted and get all those ideas out of your mind while reading it, and then... maybe then... you 'might'... come to realize what I'm covering is about the coming Antichrist that will be crowned king in JERUSALEM by the orthodox Jews.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,544
1,867
113
72
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
If you had paid attention, you would have noticed I said the following about that:

"I wouldn't go so far as to allow that as the real... origin of that Full Preterist doctrine though."

It's those on the false pre-trib rapture theory that claim the pre-trib rapture theory originates with Lacunza, when I don't see any evidence that it did.

And please don't associate me with Fundamentalists, like Baptists and such. I am a Protestant Christian descended from the first French Protestants in 16th century France. Not all Protestants are Fundamentallists, or Modernists, or Culturists, and whatever other labels illiterate seminary grads can come up with.


You are way... off base. Those being delivered up per Christ's Sign in Mark 13 is about the END of this world, for the time of "great tribulation", not past history dealing with the RCC. The British Church and the Roman Church have always been at odds with each other you probably well know, and I of course take the side of the 'historical and traditional' British Church which regarded the pope as equal with any other Christian, and is not lord over the crown of England. The English Church at times persecuted its own saints too, so the RCC is not alone in that, which I especially refer to my Protestant ancestors in France.

Thus you trying to relate Roman Church history with Christ's SIGNS for the end is actually ludicrous, because it reveals you don't understand what Lord Jesus was warning His servants about for the 'end' of this world.

I do not believe the coming Antichrist will be a pope, nor a president, nor some leader anywhere from Europe. So you need to re-read what I posted and get all those ideas out of your mind while reading it, and then... maybe then... you 'might'... come to realize what I'm covering is about the coming Antichrist that will be crowned king in JERUSALEM by the orthodox Jews.

Luis del Alcázar


"...Spanish Jesuit theologian...known for his Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (1614) published after his death, putting forward what would later be called a preterist view of Biblical prophecy..."

Francisco Ribera


"...Spanish Jesuit theologian, identified with the Futurist Christian eschatological view."

"...he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would:
  • Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God
  • Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem
  • Abolish the Christian religion
  • Deny Jesus Christ
  • Destroy Rome
  • Be received by the Jews
  • Pretend to be God
  • Kill the two witnesses of God
  • Conquer the world."

Alcazar and Ribera

Preterism and Futurism

Two sides of the same apostate counter-Reformation coin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,194
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, "
My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence."
KJV


Anyone who believes that Christ's Kingdom is already established upon this earth today goes directly... against what He revealed in the above John 18:36 verse.
If you had been paying attention, I never said Christ's Kingdom has been established on earth. Your hostile intention blinds you from reading my posts correctly.
THIS PRESENT WORLD is NOT Christ's Kingdom, nor will this world ever be Christ's Kingdom. Christ's Kingdom will happen here on earth when He returns in our near future, and that is when He will end all evil. Until then, His faithful servants await His Kingdom to come.
A straw man fallacy. I never said anything about the present world being Christ's Kingdom.
How to pray per Jesus...

Luke 11:2
2 And He said unto them, "When ye pray, say, Our Father Which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
KJV


That is not praying for a 'Kingdom already here' type idea. That is praying for the Kingdom to come, which Christ brings when He returns!

How could you, claiming to be a Christian, not know this?
How could you, claiming to be a Christian, GROSSLY MISREPRESENT MY POSTS??? Or maybe you have comprehension issues.
Thus you trying to relate Roman Church history with Christ's SIGNS for the end is actually ludicrous, because it reveals you don't understand what Lord Jesus was warning His servants about for the 'end' of this world.
What I understand is found in post #3 and 5, what Lord Jesus was warning His servants about for the 'end' of this world.
Your problem is disagreeing with me when I agree with you. BTW, how old are you?
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,647
2,519
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Luis del Alcázar


"...Spanish Jesuit theologian...known for his Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (1614) published after his death, putting forward what would later be called a preterist view of Biblical prophecy..."

Francisco Ribera


"...Spanish Jesuit theologian, identified with the Futurist Christian eschatological view."

"...he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would:
  • Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God
  • Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem
  • Abolish the Christian religion
  • Deny Jesus Christ
  • Destroy Rome
  • Be received by the Jews
  • Pretend to be God
  • Kill the two witnesses of God
  • Conquer the world."

Alcazar and Ribera

Preterism and Futurism

Two sides of the same apostate counter-Reformation coin.

I think you are wrongly padding... that list. There's no way scholars of the pre-trib rapture school (i.e., Futurism) would agree with all that. Sounds like you hate Protestants in general, which is why you would pad that list.

Thing is though...

1. Hippolytus in 2nd century A.D. spoke of the coming Antichrist for the end, and that like Jesus the Antichrist would be born of the tribe of JUDAH, and be proclaimed Messiah by the Jews, and that he also will build a stone temple for worship in JERUSALEM.

2. I don't believe you are a Catholic either, nor a Protestant. So what does that leave?
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,544
1,867
113
72
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
There are plenty of Protestants who reject both preterism and futurism.

There's no way scholars of the pre-trib rapture school (i.e., Futurism) would agree with all that.
What do they disagree with?

Those are classic descriptions of dispensational futurism's future antichrist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,647
2,519
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There are plenty of Protestants who reject both preterism and futurism.
Like me. I reject both. Best to stay with what God's Word says, and let the chips fall where they may.

What do they disagree with?

Those are classic descriptions of dispensational futurism's future antichrist.
  • Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God
  • Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem
  • Abolish the Christian religion
  • Deny Jesus Christ
  • Destroy Rome
  • Be received by the Jews
  • Pretend to be God
  • Kill the two witnesses of God
  • Conquer the world."
Just about ALL... of those items you blamed upon Futurists is total baloney.

1. "Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God"?? False. How they gonna' do that when THEY THEMSELVES claim to be saints of God? YOU SHOW YOU ARE ON A FALSE AGENDA by saying this.

2. "Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem"?? Again FALSE. Now some Futurists 'might' send funds to help the unbelieving Jews in that, thinking it will usher Christ's coming sooner, but that's the only reason, and I don't agree with it either.

3. "Abolish the Christian religion"?? TOTALLY FALSE. Futurists claim to be Christians, and they are, but just deceived about the TIMING of Christ's future coming.

4. "Deny Jesus Christ"?? CRAZY FALSE. Futurists DO NOT deny Jesus Christ as their Savior. But the JEWS do.

5. "Destroy Rome"?? FALSE ALSO. Futurists could care less about a pope and the Roman Church. What you are in reality TRYING to slander is the Protestant Church in general! That won't work either, as GOD through His Son Jesus Christ has already shown the RCC that He has ASCENDED Protestant Christianity above and beyond the Catholic system of a pope.

6. "Be received by the Jews"?? FALSE AGAIN. No true Protestant cares about being accepted by orthodox unbelieving Jews. Instead, most Protestants (Futurists included) simply care about the Jew's salvation, and would like to convert as many of them as possible to Christ Jesus. But it's clear that the Roman Church 'system' of leaders HATE THE JEWS. So you can turn this one back upon yourself, and it's coming, God will make you pay for bearing false witness on these things.

7. "Pretend to be God"?? FALSE ALSO. You really pulled that one out of your rear didn't you?

8. "Kill the two witnesses of God"?? FALSE TOTALLY. This one show how little you study The New Testament, which suggests to me that you are a FAKE come here to create chaos. That's alright, I know who you are now, just another deceiver whoring for you know who. Oh, it will be your father, the devil, that will kill God's two witnesses in JERUSALEM for the end, as written that he will ascend out of the bottomless pit to kill them per Rev.11.

9. "Conquer the world"?? Once again FALSE. You are instead talking about your father, the devil. He is the one who wants to be God in THIS PRESENT WORLD.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,544
1,867
113
72
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Like me. I reject both. Best to stay with what God's Word says, and let the chips fall where they may.


  • Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God
  • Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem
  • Abolish the Christian religion
  • Deny Jesus Christ
  • Destroy Rome
  • Be received by the Jews
  • Pretend to be God
  • Kill the two witnesses of God
  • Conquer the world."
Just about ALL... of those items you blamed upon Futurists is total baloney.

1. "Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God"?? False. How they gonna' do that when THEY THEMSELVES claim to be saints of God? YOU SHOW YOU ARE ON A FALSE AGENDA by saying this.

2. "Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem"?? Again FALSE. Now some Futurists 'might' send funds to help the unbelieving Jews in that, thinking it will usher Christ's coming sooner, but that's the only reason, and I don't agree with it either.

3. "Abolish the Christian religion"?? TOTALLY FALSE. Futurists claim to be Christians, and they are, but just deceived about the TIMING of Christ's future coming.

4. "Deny Jesus Christ"?? CRAZY FALSE. Futurists DO NOT deny Jesus Christ as their Savior. But the JEWS do.

5. "Destroy Rome"?? FALSE ALSO. Futurists could care less about a pope and the Roman Church. What you are in reality TRYING to slander is the Protestant Church in general! That won't work either, as GOD through His Son Jesus Christ has already shown the RCC that He has ASCENDED Protestant Christianity above and beyond the Catholic system of a pope.

6. "Be received by the Jews"?? FALSE AGAIN. No true Protestant cares about being accepted by orthodox unbelieving Jews. Instead, most Protestants (Futurists included) simply care about the Jew's salvation, and would like to convert as many of them as possible to Christ Jesus. But it's clear that the Roman Church 'system' of leaders HATE THE JEWS. So you can turn this one back upon yourself, and it's coming, God will make you pay for bearing false witness on these things.

7. "Pretend to be God"?? FALSE ALSO. You really pulled that one out of your rear didn't you?

8. "Kill the two witnesses of God"?? FALSE TOTALLY. This one show how little you study The New Testament, which suggests to me that you are a FAKE come here to create chaos. That's alright, I know who you are now, just another deceiver whoring for you know who. Oh, it will be your father, the devil, that will kill God's two witnesses in JERUSALEM for the end, as written that he will ascend out of the bottomless pit to kill them per Rev.11.

9. "Conquer the world"?? Once again FALSE. You are instead talking about your father, the devil. He is the one who wants to be God in THIS PRESENT WORLD.
You've completely missed the point. This isn't about what futurists will do. It is about what futurists say their future antichrist will do. The antichrist promulgated by Ribera, and embraced by futurists.

Try to actually read a post, if you can, before shooting off.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,194
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
6. "Be received by the Jews"?? FALSE AGAIN. No true Protestant cares about being accepted by orthodox unbelieving Jews. Instead, most Protestants (Futurists included) simply care about the Jew's salvation, and would like to convert as many of them as possible to Christ Jesus. But it's clear that the Roman Church 'system' of leaders HATE THE JEWS. So you can turn this one back upon yourself, and it's coming, God will make you pay for bearing false witness on these things.
"Clear" is it? This is clear official teaching on the relationship between Jews and those "Jew hating Catholics":

4. As the sacred synod searches into the mystery of the Church, it remembers the bond that spiritually ties the people of the New Covenant to Abraham's stock.

Thus the Church of Christ acknowledges that, according to God's saving design, the beginnings of her faith and her election are found already among the Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets. She professes that all who believe in Christ-Abraham's sons according to faith (6)-are included in the same Patriarch's call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church is mysteriously foreshadowed by the chosen people's exodus from the land of bondage.

The Church, therefore, cannot forget that she received the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom God in His inexpressible mercy concluded the Ancient Covenant. Nor can she forget that she draws sustenance from the root of that well-cultivated olive tree onto which have been grafted the wild shoots, the Gentiles.(7) Indeed, the Church believes that by His cross Christ, Our Peace, reconciled Jews and Gentiles. making both one in Himself.(8)

The Church keeps ever in mind the words of the Apostle about his kinsmen: "theirs is the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the law and the worship and the promises; theirs are the fathers and from them is the Christ according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:4-5), the Son of the Virgin Mary. She also recalls that the Apostles, the Church's main-stay and pillars, as well as most of the early disciples who proclaimed Christ's Gospel to the world, sprang from the Jewish people.

As Holy Scripture testifies, Jerusalem did not recognize the time of her visitation,(9) nor did the Jews in large number, accept the Gospel; indeed not a few opposed its spreading.(10) Nevertheless, God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes or of the calls He issues-such is the witness of the Apostle.(11) In company with the Prophets and the same Apostle, the Church awaits that day, known to God alone, on which all peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and "serve him shoulder to shoulder" (Soph. 3:9).(12)

Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this sacred synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as of fraternal dialogues.

True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ.

Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church's preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God's all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.

footnotes:
6. Cf. Gal. 3:7

7. Cf. Rom. 11:17-24

8. Cf. Eph. 2:14-16

9. Cf. Lk. 19:44

10. Cf. Rom. 11:28

11. Cf. Rom. 11:28-29; cf. dogmatic Constitution, Lumen Gentium (Light of nations) AAS, 57 (1965) pag. 20

12. Cf. Is. 66:23; Ps. 65:4; Rom. 11:11-32

13. Cf. John. 19:6

6. Cf. Gal. 3:7

7. Cf. Rom. 11:17-24

8. Cf. Eph. 2:14-16

9. Cf. Lk. 19:44

10. Cf. Rom. 11:28

11. Cf. Rom. 11:28-29; cf. dogmatic Constitution, Lumen Gentium (Light of nations) AAS, 57 (1965) pag. 20

12. Cf. Is. 66:23; Ps. 65:4; Rom. 11:11-32

13. Cf. John. 19:6


1679281751688.png 1679281834577.png

Davy, only the Holy Spirit can heal you of your prejudice, not arguing in forums.
What were you saying about bearing false witness?
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,647
2,519
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You've completely missed the point. This isn't about what futurists will do. It is about what futurists say their future antichrist will do. The antichrist promulgated by Ribera, and embraced by futurists.

Try to actually read a post, if you can, before shooting off.

No, YOU... need to choose YOUR words more carefully, as you said the following...

covenantee said:
"...Spanish Jesuit theologian, identified with the Futurist Christian eschatological view."

Then you made your list about Antichrist. So HOW is that IDENTIFYING with a "Futurist Christian eschatological view"?

Futurists believe in The Father and The Son, they also believe The Gospel, they also believe in Christ's future coming to reign, and His offer of Salvation, and in the future world to come. Where they differ from the original Protestants prior to the 1830s is they wrongly believe on a false pre-trib rapture that begin to be taught in 1830s Great Britain by Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby. Then there are certain dispensational doctrines they believe that Darby created also, but still does not mean everything in dispensationalist theory is wrong.

So the PROBLEM with bringing up seminary categories, is that at any one time a Bible-believing Christian can be mis-labeled by any one of those stupid categories of men when they are simply following The Bible.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,544
1,867
113
72
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No, YOU... need to choose YOUR words more carefully, as you said the following...

covenantee said:
"...Spanish Jesuit theologian, identified with the Futurist Christian eschatological view."
They weren't MY words. They were a verbatim quote from the linked article.
Can you understand the difference?


Do futurists believe any of the following about what their future antichrist will do?
  • Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God
  • Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem
  • Abolish the Christian religion
  • Deny Jesus Christ
  • Destroy Rome
  • Be received by the Jews
  • Pretend to be God
  • Kill the two witnesses of God
  • Conquer the world."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,843
3,260
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't know about Protestant churches, but your take on the Catholic Church is a load of crap. Jesus prayed that we may be one, as He is one with the Father. Does that prove Jesus is a globalist? A "One World Religion" violates centuries Catholic teaching. The Pope is not interested in a OWR, he wants people to stop killing each other in the name of God. So ignorant anti-Catholics make a big fuss when he meets with world leaders trying to find ways to stop wars and massive starvation.

View attachment 30544

The Hill​

The Pope’s ‘shocking’ statement on gay marriage is causing an uproar among Catholics​

By Alexandra Kelley | Oct. 22, 2020 | Oct. 22, 2020

Following Pope Francis’s announcement declaring support for civil union laws for same-sex couples, which breaks with traditional Catholic values that oppose homosexual relationships, the leader has garnered both criticism and support from people all over the world.

Most recently, NBC reports that retired Philippine Bishop Arturo Bastes commented that he “had very serious doubts about the moral correctness” of the Pope’s stance on legalizing gay relationships.

“This is a shocking statement coming from the pope,” Bastes said in a cell phone message Thursday, according to The Associated Press and NBC. “I am really scandalized by his defense of homosexual union, which surely leads to immoral acts.”

CBS NEWS​

Saint John Paul II accused of protecting pedophiles, fueling debate over late pope's "fast-track" to sainthood​

BY ANNA MATRANGA
MARCH 10, 2023 / 11:27 AM / CBS NEWS

CBS NEWS
Rome — A documentary hit the airwaves this week in Poland alleging the former pope, Saint John Paul II, protected pedophile priests when he was Archbishop of Krakow in his native country. It has reignited a long-standing debate over whether John Paul II was made a saint too quickly.

The report aired this week by Polish broadcaster TVN24 accuses John Paul of allowing three priests to continue working in the church in the 1970s despite knowing they had been accused of abusing minors. Two of the priests eventually served prison terms for their crimes.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,647
2,519
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

The Hill​

The Pope’s ‘shocking’ statement on gay marriage is causing an uproar among Catholics​

By Alexandra Kelley | Oct. 22, 2020 | Oct. 22, 2020

Following Pope Francis’s announcement declaring support for civil union laws for same-sex couples, which breaks with traditional Catholic values that oppose homosexual relationships, the leader has garnered both criticism and support from people all over the world.

Most recently, NBC reports that retired Philippine Bishop Arturo Bastes commented that he “had very serious doubts about the moral correctness” of the Pope’s stance on legalizing gay relationships.

“This is a shocking statement coming from the pope,” Bastes said in a cell phone message Thursday, according to The Associated Press and NBC. “I am really scandalized by his defense of homosexual union, which surely leads to immoral acts.”

CBS NEWS​

Saint John Paul II accused of protecting pedophiles, fueling debate over late pope's "fast-track" to sainthood​

BY ANNA MATRANGA
MARCH 10, 2023 / 11:27 AM / CBS NEWS

CBS NEWS
Rome — A documentary hit the airwaves this week in Poland alleging the former pope, Saint John Paul II, protected pedophile priests when he was Archbishop of Krakow in his native country. It has reignited a long-standing debate over whether John Paul II was made a saint too quickly.

The report aired this week by Polish broadcaster TVN24 accuses John Paul of allowing three priests to continue working in the church in the 1970s despite knowing they had been accused of abusing minors. Two of the priests eventually served prison terms for their crimes.
That's what they get for allowing a Communist-Leftist pope to come to power.

But this has nothing to do with this THREAD'S TOPIC of how man's theory of PRETERISM is a false doctrine and not written in God's Word.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte