No authority!

[CadyandZoe]

And this whole asinine post can se summed up by responding to your last comments in RED.
So, did Jesus come to BE served - or to serve (Matt. 20:20)? Did He have Authority over His Church - or was He srtripped of this Authority because He was a servant??

One of the Pope's official titles is "The Servant of the Servants of God".
As I stated before - and which YOU completely ignored - kissiug his ring is NOT a "requirement" or a "demand", but a custom.
It's a sign of love and respect.

You are wrong about the ring. Give it further thought. I have given you every reason to question your perspective concerning the authority of Jesus.

 

[theefaith]

Listen carefully ....none of the people in your Photos, are the "Queen of Heaven", or a "Mediatrix", and none of them are honored on "Saints Day".
Do you see any of them with a CROWN on their Head?
None of them are given credit for helping Jesus out, in Heaven
You got that?
I think you do.
So, you can plan to keep deceiving, but its not going to help you.

Here is some more doctrine of devils for you.

Here are at least 17 days a YEAR the "cult of the Virgin" honors (worships) The Madonna.
This religious organization has more days of Honor for Mary than they do for Jesus.
Thats a FACT.
-

Feast Days of Mary


January 1

Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God *

January 8

Our Lady of Prompt Succor

February 2

Presentation of the Lord

February 11

Our Lady of Lourdes

March 25

Annunciation

May 13

Our Lady of Fatima

May 31

Visitation

June 27

Our Mother of Perpetual Help

July 16

Our Lady of Mount Carmel

August 15

Assumption *

August 22

Queenship of Mary

September 8

Birth of Mary

September 12

The Most Holy Name of Mary

September 15

Our Lady of Sorrows

October 7

Our Lady of the Rosary

November 21

Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary

December 8

Immaculate Conception *

December 12


Our Lady of Guadalupe

* Holy day of Obligation

no every Sunday is in honor of the resurrection

If she really is our queen and mother
And mother of divine grace we should honor and venerate Her every day
The angelus is three times a day in her honor
The Bible says give honor to whom honor is due rom 13:7
Repeat after me Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

All generations shall call me blessed!
Why? she was already declared blessed by the angel before the miraculous conception of Jesus by the Holy Spirt

 

[theefaith]

Sure you do.

YOU weren't given the power to forgive or retain sins.
YOU weren't given the power to confect the Eucharist.
YOU weren't given the power to pray over the sick and anoint them so that their sins would be forgiven.

These p[owers were given to the Leaders of Christ's Curch - and NOT the crowds.

In any case you say Jn 6 is spiritual and of faith, we say it is literal how are we ever gonna get to Jn 8:32 unless there be a teaching authority to decide or receive the truth and teach it to us???

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ does not abandon His holy bride! Matt 28:19-20 with His church (apostles) till the end!

 

[theefaith]

Are you saying baptism is not works in that it does not justify (make one righteous)?

Or are you saying baptism is not a work in that it's not an activity?

The only reason I can think of for saying it's the second choice is to avoid saying the obvious—that water baptism literally makes you righteous. Which goes straight up against what Paul says. So I see why one would have to come up with a way to contradict Paul but give the appearance that they are not. The Catholic church seems to major in this kind of deceit. They've thought of many ways to rationalize believing what the Bible says not to believe and doing what the Bible says not to do, so that in the end they are believing what the Bible says not to believe and doing what the Bible says not to do. It's a very deceitful religious system.

not an activity I can perform

dogma:

Sacraments

162. The Sacraments of the New Covenant contain the grace which they signify, and bestow it on
those who do not hinder it.
163. The Sacraments work ex opere operato (simply by being done).
164. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant confer sanctifying grace on the receivers.
165. Three Sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders, imprint a character, that is, an
indelible spiritual mark, and for this reason cannot be repeated.
166. The Sacramental Character is a spiritual mark imprinted on the soul.
167. The Sacramental Character continues at least until the death of its bearer.
168. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant were instituted by Jesus Christ.
169. There are Seven Sacraments of the New Law.
170. The Sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for the salvation of mankind.
171. For the valid dispensing of the Sacraments it is necessary that the minister accomplish the
Sacramental Sign in the proper manner.
172. The minister must further have the intention at least of doing what the Church does.
173. In the case of adult recipients moral worthiness is necessary for the worthy or fruitful reception of the Sacraments.

Baptism

174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
178. Eve if it be unworthily received, valid Baptism imprints on the soul of the recipient an
indelible spiritual mark, the Baptismal Character, and for this reason, the Sacrament cannot
be repeated.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary
for all men without exception, for salvation.
180. Baptism can be validly administered by anyone.
181. Baptism can be received by any person in the wayfaring state who is not already baptised.
182. The Baptism of young children is valid and licit.

 

[theefaith]

And God established writing of His Approved Truth, for men to Read and Verify what any particular Church teaches.

Some Churches Teach "man's Truth" implying, and even stating it's "Gods Truth"...when it isn't.

A Particular Denominational Church Taught Falsehoods, (for centuries) before common access to the printed and mass produced Bible and Increase in literacy.
People becoming literate and bothering read Scripture, found themselves Duped, and left that Denomination.
Others, continue to be Told what to believe...
And never bother Verifying.

So verify Jn 6 for me?
Spiritual of faith
Or
Literal???

 

[theefaith]

In thread after thread you insert ‘and their successors’ into the text.

I thank God our salvation does not depend on the RCC. So glad, the ministry of Jesus is not limited to that corrupt institution.

The more the adversary tightens his grip, the more souls slip through his fingers. God through Jesus. Jesus through us, individually.

Stop trying to complicate, and thereby ruin, the Good News.

that’s my summation point f many texts not a single scripture

as in: Matt 28:19 go teach ALL nations
The United States did not become a nation for 1700 years after peter and the apostles!
How is the U.S. going to be taught without successors

more proof of the successors of Peter and the apostles

Dogma:
142. The powers bestowed on the Apostles have descended to the bishops.

Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Matthias succeeded him as apostle

acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

the sheep still need to be fed!
The nations still need to be taught!
Disciples still need baptism!
The church and salvation continue cos the peter and the apostles continue


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

 

[theefaith]

Nope. All human women, birth, "son of men".

Nearly 40 times, Jesus is told to you He is the "Son of man".



So?
So "a woman" received a Blessing from God.

Uh John the Baptist received a Blessing from God Before "his natural birth"...

Where's his Umpteen Catholic Statues?

Thru Mary as did His parents

so why was Mary blessed?
Lk 1:49 what things?

 

[Taken]

So verify Jn 6 for me?
Spiritual of faith
Or
Literal???

I can't verify anything "For you".
You are asking my Belief.
Literal.

 

[Taken]

Thru Mary as did His parents

so why was Mary blessed?
Lk 1:49 what things?

Because of Gods Grace.
Same as He blesses anyone.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Any two believers who settle the matter of forgiveness between themselves settles the matter in heaven too.

There are no Biblical directives about who can prepare the Passover elements. It's just another example of the Catholic church creating meaningless liturgy where none is required. The Catholic church majors in this kind of dead, meaningless, 'religious' activity. And they think that's what it means to be reverent and spiritual.

If a particular believer has the gift of healing, and some do, there's no reason to think the person being healed is not also receiving forgiveness of whatever sin is in need of forgiveness.

That's NOT what the Bible says - on BOTH counts . . .

To your first point above in RED - the Bible says:
Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


To your second point - the Bible makes CLEAR that this is a job for the ELDERS (Presbyters) and NOT just anybody . . .
James 5:14-15
Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the ELDERS (Presbuteros) of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

Gee - imagine that??
Just like Jesus said in John 20:21-23 to the Apostles:
John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

WHAT did the Father send Jesus to do??
To bring about the FORGIVENESS OF SIN.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did refute you.

No - you responded but you didn't refute . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I see you're upset, but us regular believers have been given these privileges. Don't get angry. Just stay on your side of the fence, please. You're not going to change anybody here.

Who's "angry"?
Certainly NOT me . . .

And I'm not trying to "change" anybody here, either.
As I told you before - my ONLY mission here is to expose your lies and the lies of others and so that others who come here to read these posts don't get seduced by them . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are wrong about the ring. Give it further thought. I have given you every reason to question your perspective concerning the authority of Jesus.

That statement is as stupid as me tellig YOU that you're "wrong" about loving your wife.
How could possibly know that MY reason for kissing the Pope's ring would be "wrong"??

Think about it . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL- no wonder you have difficulty with Truth discovery...A Two minute read is too overwhelming for you. LOL
Ignatius of Antioch.
His Vision?
Oh my, too long and indepth for you. LOL

No - either bad speeling on your oart - or your usual ignorance.

If you meant, "Ignatius" - then SAY, "Ignatius"
I have NO idea who "Igneous" is . . .

 

[Wrangler]

As I told you before - my ONLY mission here is to expose your lies and the lies of others and so that others who come here to read these posts don't get seduced by them . . .

I'm not sure how a thread on authority morphed into the Catholic-Protestant debate. I know there is this other guy, theefaith or something, that pushes along the same line you do, reading 'and their successors' into the Scriptural text and things of the like.

For me, the verse below is binding. Not sure how you insert your group as authoritative AGAINST the word of God? (No where is the authority of the collective).


But it is important that you understand this about headship: the Anointed One is the head of every man, the husband is the head of his wife, and God is the head of the Anointed.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (Voice)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

not an activity I can perform

It is, but let's play your game and say it's not an activity you yourself can perform. Circumcision is not performed by you either, yet Paul calls that a work. So your qualification of what is a work and what is not comes up short.

Paul is very clear about this—you do not receive legal justification by what you do. You receive it by what you believe...

...with your heart you believe and are justified... Romans 10:10

...apart from works...

...God credits righteousness apart from works Romans 4:6

This is why there is a division of truth that will always exist between you and us. A high and thick wall. Don't waste your time trying to dissuade us from the plain words of Paul with Catholic distortions and redefinitions and denials that end up making a person believe and do what the Bible says not to believe and do.

 

[Taken]

No - either bad speeling on your oart - or your usual ignorance.

If you meant, "Ignatius" - then SAY, "Ignatius"
I have NO idea who "Igneous" is . . .

LOL...not spelling class. Already told you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How could possibly know that MY reason for kissing the Pope's ring would be "wrong"??

Think about it . . .

Because Peter wouldn't let you do it. That's how. Think about it.

Your long succession of Popes bear no resemblance to Peter, the man from whom you are sure your Popes are spiritually descended from. We see no spiritual resemblance whatsoever between your Pope and the godly and humble man of scripture, Peter.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.

So if the matter gets settled right here and nothing needs to be brought to the church this individual who sinned and who receives the forgiveness of the one he sinned against is not forgiven? That's not what Jesus said!

...if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven. For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” Matthew 18:19-20
​

The context here is forgiveness. We don't need no pope or no bishop to minister God's forgiveness to those who have sinned against us, and the sinner don't need no pope or no bishop to receive that forgiveness!

You're living in the old covenant. The old way of having to approach God through mortal men and carnal sacrifices was set aside because the Immortal Man and His heavenly Sacrifice has appeared making the old obsolete and not needed anymore. Get with the program! We's all in the ministry now!

 

[justbyfaith]

That's NOT what the Bible says - on BOTH counts . . .

To your first point above in RED - the Bible says:
Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

You conveniently left out verses 19 and 20.

Very dishonest of you...

No - either bad speeling on your oart

That's "spelling" and "part"