No Heaven if you don't mortify the deeds of the flesh

[justbyfaith]

Baffling. The prime reason LDS are not welcome in Protestant circles is because of their rejection of the Trinity. I know this because the RLDS Church is considered Protestant for this one reason.

So why do you crusade against LDS and embrace another church that rejects the Trinity?

From my understanding, Oneness Pentecostals do not reject the Trinity; but because they emphasize the Oneness of the Lord they are persecuted by those who do not understand their position and considered to be non-Trinitarians by them.

Some have responded to this persecution by emphasizing the Oneness of the Lord even more, to the exclusion of the understanding of the distinction between the members of the Trinity.

God is indeed absolutely One. And Tritheists have a fit when we emphasize this Oneness. And this is why we do it. Although we believe in a distinction between the members in Our Triune God, we emphasize the Oneness of God in order that we might combat the heresy of Tritheism.

Sometimes we won't even talk about what we know is in scripture concerning the three-ness of the one God in order that those who do not understand His Oneness may come to the understanding that He is indeed One.

Believing that He is three to the exclusion of the understanding that He is One is in fact a belief in three Gods; which is unbiblical and even idolatry.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Trinity is NO lie.

Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

 

[justbyfaith]

And, as usual, here you are speaking about something you didn't even listen to. Maybe a bit hypocritical?

Another attack on my character. I find that this is very characteristic of mormons; that they attack the character of those with whom they disagree.

Apparently they never heard of pastor Romaine's statement (of the Calvary Chapel movement) that if you point the finger at someone else you have three fingers pointing back at you.

It is a biblical statement; based on Matthew 7:1-5.

 

[Willie T]

Another attack on my character. I find that this is very characteristic of mormons; that they attack the character of those with whom they disagree.

Apparently they never heard of pastor Romaine's statement (of the Calvary Chapel movement) that if you point the finger at someone else you have three fingers pointing back at you.

It is a biblical statement; based on Matthew 7:1-5.

You are the one who admitted you never even listened to the song, yet you could claim yourself justified to trash it. And there were no lyrics posted when I posted the video.

 

[aspen]

From my understanding, Oneness Pentecostals do not reject the Trinity; but because they emphasize the Oneness of the Lord they are persecuted by those who do not understand their position and considered to be non-Trinitarians by them.

Some have responded to this persecution by emphasizing the Oneness of the Lord even more, to the exclusion of the understanding of the distinction between the members of the Trinity.

God is indeed absolutely One. And Tritheists have a fit when we emphasize this Oneness. And this is why we do it. Although we believe in a distinction between the members in Our Triune God, we emphasize the Oneness of God in order that we might combat the heresy of Tritheism.

Sometimes we won't even talk about what we know is in scripture concerning the three-ness of the one God in order that those who do not understand His Oneness may come to the understanding that He is indeed One.

Believing that He is three to the exclusion of the understanding that He is One is in fact a belief in three Gods; which is unbiblical and even idolatry.

So the church doubles down, sounds like the council of Trent, doubling down on everything the reformers criticized.

So what is the role of the Holy Spirit in Oneness doctrine and is he a full personage of God? Am I considered a Tritheist because I am Trinitarian?

 

[justbyfaith]

So the church doubles down, sounds like the council of Trent, doubling down on everything the reformers criticized.

So what is the role of the Holy Spirit in Oneness doctrine and is he a full personage of God? Am I considered a Tritheist because I am Trinitarian?

Not from my perspective; while you may think yourself to be a Trinitarian and yet be a Tritheist (not believing in the true Trinity).

 

[justbyfaith]

You are the one who admitted you never even listened to the song, yet you could claim yourself justified to trash it. And there were no lyrics posted when I posted the video.

You posted the lyrics not long after. To be honest with you, the listening version was boring; and I also did not feel that I wanted to be deceived by the added element of music with the lyrics that I knew were coming: so I didn't listen all the way through. I got the melody from the first 30 seconds.

So sue me; call me a hypocrite over it if you wish: it only shows the true nature of your religion.

Because you basically have three fingers pointing back at you.

And I don't even say this over feeling judged by your statement. For I actually know that I haven't sinned in this. But I say it because it is a faithful understanding that when we try to take the speck out of our brother's eye, there is usually a beam in our own. These are the words of our Lord Jesus Christ. And I say them for your sake; that you might be redeemed from your sin that you are projecting on to me.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why do you want me to listen to the actual song so badly? Is it not an evangelistic tool of the mormon church; and you want me to be converted by whatever beauty there might be in the melody of the song?

There is nothing wrong with my action of trashing it because of the lyrics. I do the same with such things as Metallica and the Beatles. It doesn't make a difference to me if the sound is something pleasing to the ear. I trash those things too because of the negative spiritual content in the lyrics presented.

To @Willie T.

 

[aspen]

Yet, Jesus wants perfect lovers, not perfect trash men......

 

[justbyfaith]

Yet, Jesus wants perfect lovers, not perfect trash men......

However, I often do the duty in my church of taking out the trash at church every Sunday because someone gave that responsibility to my wife and I do it because I love her (as well as unto the Lord).

Therefore, some are perfect trash men because they are perfect lovers (if anyone but Jesus is even perfect).

And when it comes to trashing what is truly trash in the spiritual sense, I believe that there is a place in the body of Christ for those who do that.

It wouldn't be prudent for people in the church to be ingesting spiritual garbage (like the book of mormon)...it could make them really sick, as a matter of fact.

 

[Naomi25]

We cannot fulfill the lusts of the flesh and deceive ourselves in to believing that we will inherit God's Kingdom too.

Colossians 3
[5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[6] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
[7] In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
[8] But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
[9] Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
[10] And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

This sounds like salvation by works to me. No heaven unless WE deal with the evils of the flesh. That means that we will have something to boast in when we get to heaven. Our arrival IN heaven will be thanks to all that mortifying that went on...take a bow.
No...that's not how the gospel goes. Our salvation, in it's entirely, belongs to Christ and him alone. It is in this way that we cannot boast.
However, once we have salvation...and that means our arrival in heaven is assured...our changed hearts direct us to, step by step, putting sin within our lives, to death. This is an ongoing process that lasts the rest of our lives! Not only is the sin in our lives vast, but we slip, we stumble and trip. Again, that's why all praise, glory and honor goes to God and his Christ for our salvation and forgiveness....there's no way we could either earn it to begin with, or keep it once we had it. No one is that good, depsite the fondest longing of our hearts. We press on, however, because of our love for the one who saved us.

 

[farouk]

This sounds like salvation by works to me. No heaven unless WE deal with the evils of the flesh. That means that we will have something to boast in when we get to heaven. Our arrival IN heaven will be thanks to all that mortifying that went on...take a bow.
No...that's not how the gospel goes. Our salvation, in it's entirely, belongs to Christ and him alone. It is in this way that we cannot boast.
However, once we have salvation...and that means our arrival in heaven is assured...our changed hearts direct us to, step by step, putting sin within our lives, to death. This is an ongoing process that lasts the rest of our lives! Not only is the sin in our lives vast, but we slip, we stumble and trip. Again, that's why all praise, glory and honor goes to God and his Christ for our salvation and forgiveness....there's no way we could either earn it to begin with, or keep it once we had it. No one is that good, depsite the fondest longing of our hearts. We press on, however, because of our love for the one who saved us.

Seems that mortifying the deeds of the flesh in principle - according to Romans 8 - is a mark of a true believer. Although certain Paul elsewhere makes it clear that salvation by works is not an option (Ephesians 2.9).

 

[justbyfaith]

re #71 (@Naomi25):

It says that the wrath of God comes on the sons of disobedience over doing such things as as are stated immediately before.

Therefore, doing such things will indeed bring the wrath of the Lord upon you.

Col 3:25, But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

This means that the Lord will not show partiality to you in judgment because you claim to be a Christian.

2 Corinthians 5:17 shows plainly that really becoming a believer means beginning to have a different kind of walk.

There is also this:

2Co 5:10, For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[justbyfaith]

Rom 8:10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die (spiritually and eternally): but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live (spiritually and eternally).
Rom 8:14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

I added a little commentary in there because some have taught opposite to the commentary that I have given. To them I say, just keep taking your chances on the idea that it is talking about mere physical death. When you stand before the judgment seat of Christ, all will be revealed; and the judgment will be just.

 

[Naomi25]

Seems that mortifying the deeds of the flesh in principle - according to Romans 8 - is a mark of a true believer. Although certain Paul elsewhere makes it clear that salvation by works is not an option (Ephesians 2.9).

Yes, I think we must say that every true Christian shows this fruit. But it's a fruit borne FROM salvation. Saying that unless one shows it, salvation will not come, is putting the cart before the horse, and is not biblical; therefore dangerous.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, I think we must say that every true Christian shows this fruit. But it's a fruit borne FROM salvation. Saying that unless one shows it, salvation will not come, is putting the cart before the horse, and is not biblical; therefore dangerous.

It should be clear however that if salvation is real, one will show forth this fruit. Which means that without the fruit you can be pretty certain salvation is lacking.

 

[Willie T]

It should be clear however that if salvation is real, one will show forth this fruit. Which means that without the fruit you can be pretty certain salvation is lacking.

You do realize, don't you, that you just said that if someone else shows fruit that is not evident in your life, your own judgement just determined that you must not be saved.... since you did not show the same fruit they did.

 

[justbyfaith]

You do realize, don't you, that you just said that if someone else shows fruit that is not evident in your life, your own judgement just determined that you must not be saved.... since you did not show the same fruit they did.

There are nine virtues identified as the fruit of the Spirit. In my own life I bear fruit in seasons. In each season I bear 3/4 of the total amount of fruit and 1/4 of it is being pruned off of my life.

And herein what you are saying breaks down.

Because the type of fruit that is being pruned in my own life at any given moment may indeed be being borne by someone else. But this does not preclude that I am not bearing other types of fruit.

And it again appears that you are attempting to find some kind of fault in me. And I would say that the spirit of fault-finding is bad fruit...or at the very least a lack of good fruit in a person's life.

 

[farouk]

Yes, I think we must say that every true Christian shows this fruit. But it's a fruit borne FROM salvation. Saying that unless one shows it, salvation will not come, is putting the cart before the horse, and is not biblical; therefore dangerous.

"By their fruits ye shall know them"....

 

[Willie T]

There are nine virtues identified as the fruit of the Spirit. In my own life I bear fruit in seasons. In each season I bear 3/4 of the total amount of fruit and 1/4 of it is being pruned off of my life.

And herein what you are saying breaks down.

Because the type of fruit that is being pruned in my own life at any given moment may indeed be being borne by someone else. But this does not preclude that I am not bearing other types of fruit.

And it again appears that you are attempting to find some kind of fault in me. And I would say that the spirit of fault-finding is bad fruit...or at the very least a lack of good fruit in a person's life.

Yet, by your own admission, you state you look at others to see if they bear all that fruit. No way to get around the hypocrisy of that. It is nothing BUT searching for faults in others. Better to do as Jesus said, and just worry about ourselves. As I said earlier, we are NOT The Holy Spirit, Jr.